dfrostnh

Great comments have already been posted. Our son was the only one in his history class who had visited some of the great historical areas on the east coast. We only took him out of school every couple of years and rarely once he was in middle school. In high school he missed time because he had won a state speech contest to a national event. In the school library I found short booklets on American history for the places we were going to visit. His 5th grade teacher asked me to give his class a slide show talk about our trip to the USVI. We did any school work that was assigned. In my opinion, children need to learn a lot outside of the classroom and with parents' help. Traveling is a good example. Schools have their limitations.

GeorgeW

80-90 % of the public school day is a waste of time. Most of the day is filled with Deweyesque indoctrination, fire drills, diversity mantras, roll calls, disturbances of unruly and/or idiotic children, clique formation, recess and pledges of allegience. Read John Taylor Gatto on the subject of modern education and you will understand why things like travel are more valuable to your childrens' education than sitting at a desk like a lump of coal.

NeoPatrick

GeorgeW, that is hogwash. Of course it depends on the school. But to generally label 80 - 90% of the school day as those things is simply silly. And at many schools, students never sit at a desk like a lump of coal. Would you believe some schools don't even have desks these days?

GoTravel

Kerry, you've got to be kidding? Lighten up. We are talking about a five year old and a seven year old.

soccr

I'm struck by the responses from the teachers here, and the difference among them may suggest something NThea (and other parents) have to deal with that has nothing to do with the actual question of learning material and experience.

Some teachers ("educators") will take the whole incident personally and negatively, and if the child's grades seem affected by 8 days out of about 180 (or however many...), that's disproportionate and suggests punishment. Others think of their profession in terms of learning, in many forms. In addition, all too often, teachers consider parents adversaries rather than partners in the child's education.

(The other side of that coin is, of course, the parents who consider the teachers adversaries.... It's a lousy shift in emphasis: Once parents and teachers worked more or less together, with PTA meetings a common ground to discuss educational goals, and parent-teacher conferences were something for a kid to worry about. Now many teachers use their status as "educator" experts to confront or exclude parents not willing to relinquish all participation other than baking for the PTA bake sales; and many parents use a enlarged sense of self-absorbed entitlement to browbeat teachers when their own kids aren't performing up to snuff.)

The advice to approach the teacher respectfully (even if they don't like the idea) is important, for that reason. And remember, the teacher doesn't have the option himself/herself to pull out of school and go to Europe with you! And you're potentially adding to the workload.

You have good reason to go, the kids are young, and any teacher really concerned with developing a sense of intellectual curiosity (which is the goal at those ages) should respond at least with respect and hopefully with fully cooperative encouragement.

Finally, maybe consider making looking for a gift for the teacher one of the trip tasks for the children

rhrd

I was out many weeks of school each year (4 - 6) due to illness in MS and HS, and still managed to get into and happily attend an Ivy League school.

I don't agree with taking kids out of school for vacations, especially beach or fun vacations. However, I think the arguments about damaging kids, especially that young, by taking them out of school are ridiculous based on personal experience (I'm old enough that I didn't get any special treatment or schoolwork sent home when I was out, I had to make it up when I got back). The problem I see, especially with trips early in the school year (which yours is not), is that the teacher and administration tend to be offended by it, and some schools forbid it. In fact, you may want to be careful about telling the teacher if your children's school has a similar "vacations are not excused absences" policy.

You are off to a good start; you know that making the trip a learning experience would be best for them. If you want "standard" work, you can buy grade-appropriate workbooks at Staples or educational stores. If you want them to learn from the trip, help them write down what they learned each day, what they liked and didn't like.

bigtyke

In a book on homeschooling, Dr. Raymond Moore tells the story of one boy who stayed at home with no formal education, not learning to read until he was 16. He then completed high school in one year.

Missing 8 days of school at ages 5 and 7 will have no effect on their education. Who cares what grades they get at that age? The value of the trip is far greater than anything they would do in school during that time.

GoTravel

rhrd, your thinking is flawed because you don't believe in taking them out for fun vacations. Who is to judge on whether or not the vacation is fun?

And why can't the beach or fun be educational?

rhrd

Just me, YMMV. I wouldn't take any vacation during the school year where my kids would miss school. But I do feel things like a trip to Europe could be special enough for others, as for example my oldest is working on immigration in school and could really benefit from visiting areas his ancestors are from.

I suppose I get p'o'd when I hear parents saying "we're leaving for disney tomorrow for 10 days" in the middle of a school week. Clearly that isn't the case with this poster.

I do have family members who have gone on 2-week cruises with their kids during the school year, mainly because they couldn't find an overnight babysitter.

GoTravel

But the thing is rhrd is that you are judging based on what you think is educational. There is no standard to judge what is and what isn't educational. Does that make sense?

How do you know the family isn't taking the Disney trip to spend a week at The Disney Institute (which I've attended and is hugely educational) or one of the high school family members is attending spring training? Even SeaWorld?

HKP

Disney vs. Europe: which "culture" would really expand and open a child's mind?

NeoPatrick

I can tell your mind is made up, HKP, but I remember seeing kids spending hours and hours in the Met Life pavillion at Epcot (is that still there?) with films, games, and activities all about the body, health, and science. As an educated adult, it was amazing what I was learning-- and those kids around me were learning even more. Particularly many of the places in Epcot are fantastic learning experiences. Which is a better learning experience? A Zoo in London or Disney's Wild Animal Kingdom? Probably the latter to be honest. To be blunt, yes some kids can learn a lot more at Disney World, than even riding gondolas in Venice and seeing the Coliseum in Rome. I'm not putting a trip to Europe down, but anyone who thinks kids can't LEARN at Disney, probably hasn't even been there and has a totally wrong idea of what it is.

beachbum

We took our kids out of school for a trip to French Polynesia when they were 8 and 13. In several ways, that was an eye-opening trip for them (especially on the beach for 13 year-old son). ;-)

At ages 5 and 7, I think a trip to Europe may "make some memories" but I doubt it will be very educational.

J_Correa

I just wanted to mention a game my mom used to play with us called "Lost in the Woods" - basically designed to teach us to pay attention to our surroundings and figure out how to get places. We'd be going along and she would tell us that we were "lost" and it was up to us to find our way back to whatever it was - the car, the campsite, the hotel, a train station, a bus stop, a specific intersection, etc. We never knew when the game would start, so we learned to always pay attention, just in case - LOL. When we were small, the games were short - the car was just around the corner or a 100 yards down the trail we were hiking - just little things. As we got older, the game got more involved, sometimes requiring maps and so forth. It was fun.

bugswife1

When I was 5, my grandparents took me out of school to go with them to the Bahamas. Since they lived in Florida and I rarely got time with them, my parents were thrilled.
What did I learn? I learned how to sit like a lady and behave in a restaurant with tablecloths (with 2 younger siblings that was non-existant at home). I learned about Gekko's (not the one on this board) and Palmetto bugs. I took my first plane ride and saw my first tropical fish from a glass bottom boat. But most of all, I spent 5 wonderful days with my grandparents. They had plenty of educational things to SAY to me--it wouldn't have mattered if I SAW a thing. There is something to be said for a child getting the undivided attention of a parent or grandparent for several days consecutively.

jannieween

My thoughts on this trip would be...When your children are grown and maybe you are gone...Will they remember every day they went to school? Or will they remember the fun and wonderful memories they had in those 8 short days they had with their family? When they are in highschool,university or in the working world I doubt those 8 days of missed school will impact their success...They may remember thought how important family really is. As for my family...I have a grade 12 student taking Calculus and she will miss 1 week for our family vacation..I hope when I am gone she thinks of me and smiles...

wtm003

Someone suggested a gift for the teacher. Another fun idea is bring back inexpensive "gifts" for the class. My kids have received pesos and shell leis from classmates. One of my sons collected small shells for his classmates that the teacher used for a class project. My kids also gave out leftover euro coins one year. At 5 & 7 it is fun to discover that "pennies" from other countries look different.

highflyer

wtm,

We've done the gifts for class several times and it's one of my daughters favorite activites when on vacation.
We brought back tiny shells from a beach on Vieques at Thanksgiving; some had holes in and we thought that maybe the girls might use them to make jewelry. Well, one of the boys ( 9 yrs!)decided to use his as a whistle and accidentally swallowed it! Luckily he didn't choke and it passed through his system uneventfully but we'll stick to pencils or postcards from now on!

bennnie

My niece (6yo) attends a very prestigious private school in Manhatten (you know the ones with the nightmarishly competive admissions process). They have an incredibly strict policy about taking kids out of school for travel - absolutely forbidden! The headmaster has made it clear in no uncertain terms that there will be no absences because of travel no matter how educational the trip may be. The rationale is that nearly every family attending the school has ample opportunity and ample means to travel whenever and wherever they desire. Taking a child out of school for travel is "highly disruptive" to the child and to the classroom. If it were allowed the headmaster is convinced that some weeks there would be no one in school.

I only bring it up as comic relief - most of us don't have these types of problems.

sfamylou

I read this entire thread with great interest. Our new principal at a public elementary school in SoCal just sent home a very stern letter, telling us that vacations were not excused absences and no teacher is allowed to give assignments and make up work. And around here, people take their kids out all the time, always for "making memories" or trips that have "educational" value. The result is that kids are coming and going in the classrooms all the time, in spite of a nearly a week off at Thanksgiving, two weeks at Christmas, a "ski week" around President's Day, and spring break.

I pulled my then-second grader out for a day and a half last year for, of all stupid things, a trip to the Maui Invitational. He didn't miss much education-wise, but I still think it was a dumb reason for a kid to miss school.

But this year? Third grade? I would hate for him to miss a week or more of school. I don't know the average age of the posters here, but I'm 40, and I'm stunned at how much tougher his workload is at such a young age. He's doing stuff in school I didn't learn until 6th grade. And he's not in any special class. It's just that many schools today push kids harder, and by third grade, it's hard to catch up.

If the teacher is spending a bunch of extra time helping a kid catch up because he/she was on a trip to Chile or whatever, no matter how educational, MY kid misses out because the teacher is busy with the travel kid. I realize that's picky, but so be it.

And it's true. The district loses money with these absences.

I'm not sure it's necessary to travel during school time, particularly by third or fourth grade. Let's face it. Europe isn't going anywhere. It's not that astounding for a child to go there. If the child was going to attend a Royal Wedding or whatever, maybe.

Then again, I'm not sure it's worth taking most 5-year-olds to Europe anyway. My young kids would pretty much want to eat bread and go to toy shops.