DB well worth the time to post and well worth the time to read....stay safe everyone! and share with travel bound friends who may be foolish to not know better, or foolishly forget to never let the sea at your back......

It's easy to get sucked into that "let me get a picture of you over there" stupidity.

A year ago February we were at the beach in Poipu at Brennecke's. We decided to walk across that little inlet near the "wading" pool and onto the lava rocks. I was ahead and went over nearer the ocean. My wife says "oooh, let me get a picture of you, just back up some more." I looked at her and said "are you nuts?" and walked back over to her. Having been there awhile and snorkeled, I knew the surf was quite mild. So with her pleading for a "great" photo, I told her I would walk over near the sea, turn so she could get a photo and that would be it -- she needed to be ready. Of course the moment I got there, she started fumbling with the camera. Then I began turning my back on her so I could keep an eye on the swells further out, which meant she couldn't get a good photo. At one point I complained the photo wasn't gettin' took, and she said that she was waiting for a "good" wave!! I told her to take it now because I'm coming back. All told, it probably took 5 minutes for her to get the photo, and during this time I could see some people on the beach looking at me with "rubber-neck" anticipation.

I was not concerned about getting knocked into the ocean, I was mainly concerned that a just-big-enough wave would crash over the rocks, knock me off my feet, and take me for a scrape across the lava.

I had to explain to my wife a couple of times (before the light came on) the possible jeopardy in which she placed the "fun" of our vacation for the sake of wanting one photo. I explained that the ONLY reason I did it was because the conditions were very mild, and I know to read the swells.

The surf was only 1-2 feet, but even so, I was still a bit aprehensive because you just can't be completely sure.

If a warning card where to be handed out, I think the responsibility lies with the State of Hawaii, not the airlines. The State mandates the agriculture cards, if they were concerned they should also mandate the water safety cards.

I suspect the state's reason for not requiring that kind of handout is based on a concern about scaring away tourists.

But, the sad part is you can't legislate common sense.

I used to think these kinds of drowning accidents were just "natural selection hard at work". But after the experience at Hapuna I realized accidents can and do happen despite best efforts to avoid them.

I'm probably in a minority because I do read and follow signs posted on public beaches, and it would have helped to know there's a sudden and precipitous shelf dropoff at Hapuna, along with ocean currents (NOT riptides) that will carry one beyond the shelf if one goes out too far and too close to the edge. Just posting this info would save lives there and probably elsewhere in Hawaii.

>>I think the responsibility lies with the State of Hawaii,<<

I think the responsibility lies with each and every one of us not to be idiots!!! Oceans are potent, cliffs could be dangerous.. should the highway department of every state hand out a card that tells people it's dangerous to walk on a major highway?

Come on people, let's stop being the generation of everything is somebody else's fault....let's take responsibility for our actions!!!!!!!!!

Hey Lyb,
when you take comments out of context, you really do change the meaning. Clearly, you choose to ignore the first three words of my post.

The ultimate responsibility does rest with the individual. However, in the CONTEXT of the original posts suggestion of handing out a warning card, that responsibility should be with the state, if they feel one is needed.

My 2 cents: I don't think the danger of waves van be overstated, especially along the north shore of the islands in the winter time when there is really huge surf.

I lived on Oahu for 3 years while I was in the Air Force and can remember a number of cases where rogue waves would come across the beach and at times, across the shoreline road and snatch unsuspecting people away. One in particular scared the hell out of me.

Just outside Halaiwa, two sailors were sitting on a rock across the highway from the beach and about ten feet above ground level. A really freak wave came across, picked one of them off the rock and swept him out to sea. I had lived there quite awhile but that time and it had never occurred to me a wave could reach that far inland and be dangerous.

Just back from O'ahu yesterday and I am really grateful for all of your concerned posts.

BTW, we were handed an information sheet when we checked in at Aston Waikiki Beach Tower (3/24) stating the risks of swimming and being in the ocean. We had to sign off that we read it. Hmmmmm.

Snorkeled Hanauma Bay 3/26 and had a heck of a time getting past the breakers... my snorkel filled w/ water and when I'd clear it, it'd fill again... finally popped up for a breath and the drive of the surf pushed me into some coral heads... I've got a few bruises to show for it... STILL.

First few days on the north shore were nice and calm, and of course we didn't hit Shark's Cove, thinking we'd have plenty of time... not so... surf picked up incredibly.

Thursday, the day that the couple on Kauai drowned, my son & his friend were in the water at Waimea Beach jumping the waves... 30 minutes or more the surf was 2-3 ft. then before you know it 8-10 ft. My son got caught in a set and was doing ok, he's a good swimmer and knew how to stay on top of them, but they just kept coming, and he really started getting tired. We kept hand signaling if he was "ok", and when he signalled back "so so" my husband and one of the surfers went out after him... the set died down, and he was able to come in on his own.

We stay on Ke Iki beach on the north shore and the waves were calm enough to let the kids (13 & 14) jump in the wash our first few days, but once the "no swimming" signs were posted, they were done. Other beaches were swimmable.

Last Friday, a couple of older teen guys, maybe they were in their early 20's, were messing around jumping in the wash during WILD surf, 10-15 ft. I was holding my breath on the lanai... no lifeguards for 1/2 mile, and sure enough one of them gets pulled back into the wave and had a helluva time getting out. Thank goodness he knew to swim with the current until a large wave pushed him in. He didn't panic. Very important.

My suggestion to anyone with teenagers, or any children for that matter, is to STAY with them while they're in the ocean, watch them, swim with them, OR DO NOT allow them in the ocean when you're not around. Especially in Hawaii.

I've had more than one scary experience in HI waters and a healthy respect for the sea is my motto. Talk to the lifeguards & definitely NEVER turn your back to the water. READ & OBEY the signs!

Great thread Kakalena... many mahalos.

What a wonderful post! It sounds like you had a great time in Hawaii. My daughter's best swim buddy just called her from there a few minutes ago. She's jealous, wants a trip there, but we may be taking her to MONTEREY sometime this week, so she's excited about that.

My oldest son was swimming in the ocean in Santa Cruz this summer and he dislocated his shoulder out in the waves. Ouch! Was right before the surgery, hopefully that won't happen ever again. I also feel a need to stay glued to any child/teen out in the ocean and I'm always looking for my cell phone, it can make you crazy sometimes.

Now he's off to San Diego to visit some college buddies for the week! Lucky guy!!! ***kim***

Hey, makai1, where did you stay on he north shore? Keiki Beach Bungalows? Will you be giving us a more detailed report? Hope so.

Aloha Maggi,

Yes, we stayed at Ke Iki Beach Bungalows. Best shelling beach on the island. TR to follow soon... much work to catch up on 1st. Mahalo.

One of the most important things I ever learned in Hawaii was, Do NOT turn your back on the ocean.

Thought I would post this article from our city newspaper on the update of Daniel(the boy whose parents drowned in Kauai). Had him in school a few years ago and he is a great kid. If anyone is interested there is a fund set up for him...

Trust fund will help boy who lost parents


Norma Mendoza , [email protected] 04/06/2004

Uncle sent to Hawaii to bring back nephew

Friends and neighbors have set up a trust fund for Daniel Hantack, the 11-year-old boy orphaned when his parents Terry and Debora Hantack drowned Thursday off the coast of Kaua'i on the first day of their vacation.


A neighbor, who asked to remain anonymous, said neighbors and everyone are all pitching in to help in any way they can. She said the support has been overwhelming.


She said TheBANK of Edwardsville was very, very good at helping the friends and directing them in the right way to set up the trust fund and in getting it done so quickly.


Contributions may be sent to:


The Daniel Hantack Benefit Fund


c/o TheBANK of Edwardsville


P.O. Box 899


Edwardsville, IL 62025


The Hantacks and their son had arrived at the resort on Kaua'i late Wednesday night. On Thursday morning, they took a walk to the beach made famous in the movie, "South Pacific," and often referred to as Nurses' Beach. Witnesses said they appeared to have been standing on a lava rock promontory reaching out into the surf when the rogue wave hit them, knocking all three down and washing the parents out to sea.


According to a Saturday article in the Honolulu Advertiser, it was not yet clear how the family reached the beach. The article notes that it is possible to get there by walking along the shore from the west and possible, but dangerous, to go down a cliff area east of the beach.


But, the article states, most visitors follow a marked path from a parking area along the Kuhio Highway. The path runs to a muddy trail through a canopy of tropical trees. On that trail, the Advertiser states, just as beachgoers reach the sand, they are confronted with a panel of six warning signs in bright orange, yellow and white, with black lettering.


From the Advertiser: "The signs warn that there is no lifeguard, that there are dangerous shorebreaks, high surf, rip currents, slippery rocks and waves that break on the rock ledge. This last sign has a yellow pictograph showing a wave crashing on a falling human figure standing on a ledge."


The signs are the latest ones the state of Hawaii has for beach areas, developed by a task force created under a 1996 law. They were installed in 2001 when the state of Hawaii acquired from the Grove Farm, the land across which the access trail runs.


Despite speculation that the parents may have sustained serious head injuries from being battered against the lava rocks, the Advertiser article reports that the autopsies found the cause of their deaths to be by drowning.


L.D. Hutchens, father of Debora Hantack, said Monday that Terry Hantack's twin brother, Gary, went to Hawaii to retrieve Daniel. He said he doesn't know when they will return because there are so many things that Gary Hantack must take care of before they can make arrangements to have the bodies shipped back here.


"I talked to (Gary) today," he said. "He said he's a pretty strong little boy."


Hutchens said his daughter and son-in-law had already made arrangements for Daniel to live with them.


"He's going to stay with us as long as we're able to take care of him."


Hutchens said he and his wife, Natilee, have been married 56 years.


©Edwardsville Intelligencer 2004

We were staying in Princeville the week of the drowning. Went to the same exact spot two days before, walking down the rocky path from the highway after a couple of rainy days. We are middle aged mainlanders but it is not a difficult path. Yes, it is a little steep and slippery but not bad, and yes, they have a huge board of signs at the end before you reach the beach.

The day of the drowning we almost stopped at Lumaha'i but went less than a mile to another adjacent beach, Ha'ena. From there you can walk the shoreline to Lumaha'a. There are also warning signs at Ha'ena and in fact that day there were also extra signs in the sand along the surf that said "no swimming" which weren't there the day before.

As we were sitting on the beach we heard the alarm sirens, looked around and since no one on our beach was in trouble we thought perhaps they were siren testing.

About an hour later as we drove back up Kuhio highway we saw the police cars at the Lumaha'i pulloff. We didn't know why they were there until the next day when we returned home and found out on the internet (we didn't watch local news on TV in Kauai that night since it was such a perfect beautiful sunny day, we were outside enjoying the sunset.

We watched the sunset on Lumaha'i two days before the accident , only four people on the beach that night and we saw a family of locals climb those rocks. We were tempted but didn't want to cut our tender tourist feet since the rocks are lava.

Lesson learned to everyone who reads these boards. The ocean is dangerous if you aren't careful and don't respect its power. It was an absolutely gorgeous day the day of the drowning (we were there for a week of sometimes rainy cloudy days). Don't be lulled into thinking it can't happen to you and it can't happen on a lovely sunny day.

Yes, it is a very sobering account. It causes me to reflect on how our daughter would be if something were to happen to us (such as with "great" photo ops).

One minor point for fdecarlo: riptides are ocean currents that come close to shore. Usually they run parallel to shore, and generally are not too difficult to negotiate if there are breaking waves (in the summer). However, ocean currents (riptides) can be loop shaped, coming in toward shore and then looping back out. So, if the loop is somewhat small, say 1/4-1/2 mile in diameter, you can easily be deceived by the lateral motion (no big deal, just swim in further down the beach), until you hit the outflow and suddenly find yourself getting further from shore and moving out to sea. I have been caught in lesser ones on the mainland, and immediately began catching waves to come back in (sometimes it takes 1/2 hour or so to reach shore, even with strong swimming skills and using the waves -- I don't go outside like that anymore). The islands don't really redirect these currents as a continent will, the tides/currents just generally flow around the island in loops and swirls (hence being sucked out, and landing on Midway).

Also on the mainland, during the unruly winter surf conditions, the weather and water are much too cold for most people and therefore there is less occurance of such incidents. Board surfers have it much easier than body surfers or snorkelers, but still need to exercise caution.

I have heard an interview a couple of times about a guy who went surfing ALONE off the coast of Washington south of Seattle. He got pulled a couple miles out, and had to spend the night on his board. He was very lucky the next day to catch some waves that brought him back in ...no one ever noticed, and he was in very poor condition when he finally made it to help.

We just returned from our 8th trip to Kauai with our kids, now teenagers. We've always had tremendous resepect for the ocean but have had to learn over the years the specifics about Kauai. We are with the kids always when swimming or boarding and try to keep them at beaches with lifeguards. They were desperate to go in at Polihale, which is a magnificent beach, but much too dangerous. We watched as a huge wave tossed a woman up on the beach forty feet. So bring a camera and a book. We were also on the North shore for a drive on April 1, just hours after the two IL parents were killed. I've been swimming at Lumahai before, but in the summer when it was "relatively" calm. Never in winter. I recommend sticking to the South side beaches; Poipu for the kids, Lawai for snorkeling, Hanapepe State Park beach (lifeguards)for boarding. One other thing we learned two years ago when a local boy was attacked by a shark at Brenneke beach while boarding: It had been raining steadily for a couple of weeks and the shorelines were all murky with runoff from the streams and rivers...NEVER swim in those conditions! We arrived at the beach to let the kids board since it was the only letup in the rain for days...and then we saw the yellow caution tape cordoning off the beach, then got the whole story from a woman (who, thank God, was a trauma nurse) who helped the boy out of the water. He lost his leg. The only things I can suggest to anyone going there for a holiday is 1.) obey the beach signs, they're there for your protection, and 2.)do your research before you go; there are tons of sites with important information you need.

I own a condo on Kaanapali beach and I can sit on my lanai and every 10 or 15 minutes I will see newly arrived tourists get thrown back to the beach or knocked down by waves. NEVER TURN YOUR BACK TO THE OCEAN>>>NEVER.

I am locally born and raised. I was initially wary of this posting but, moved by the genuine concern of informed residents and visitors, want to share my own experience with the ocean.

Like another poster, I was a Red Cross certified Senior Life Guard. However, I was also an immature young man. I went to Makapuu Beach when the red flags were flying (indicating that swimming was not recommended), but comfortable with my training, experience, and certification (and, in hindsight, intoxicated with my training, experience, and certification), I entered the water. BIG MISTAKE! It remains as the most frightening experience in my life.

I'm with Kal: Do not turn your back on the ocean, do not go swimming without a companion, always check information with those who know, and by all means please think. There are many places in Hawaii that are almost perfectly safe to swim, dive, surf, and the like. All you need to do is ask people who know.

As a footnote, I worked as a lifeguard at many swimming pools and had to remind guests not to run and jump around the pool area. You would not believe how many injuries and deaths result from inappropriate horseplay around a swimming pool.

When you think about it, it's just plain common sense. If you fall and injure yourself on land, you have some measure of assistance and rescue while you are able to breathe. If you are in a situation whare, upon injury, you may not be able to breathe, you should take appropriate measures.

JeffKaanapali, do you rent your condo when you are not using it? What condominium building is it in?

I personally have been knocked over by water that was ankle deep at Sand Beach on Oahu and my family witnessed a drowning at one of the beaches just north of Kapalua in Maui over Christmas vacation just a few years ago - it was at a fairly protected beach area and a father of two teenage boys drowned snorkeling in water that was not over his head. It took the paramedics over 20 minutes to get there because of the location. It was a terrible thing to see but a valuable lesson to be learned by my two daughters about respect for the ocean and its power. Anyone going to Hawaii should be aware that you need to exercise extreme caution.