Southwest Trip - details
 

Hello - We are traveling from MI to Cal this summer. I've read a lot of the threads, but still have a few questions, and will start with these 2 - the main 'purpose' of the trip is for my mom to get to see the giant sequoias, I have been to Sequoia NP - LOVED it - but we are planning on going to Yosemite and seeing the sequoias there. How do Sequoia NP and YNP/Mariposa grove compare? and on a completely diff. topic, we would like to do a 1/2 day float trip somewhere along the way, how do the trips in Moab, Page, and Yosemite compare? We are interested in scenery, not rapids! or do they? Anyone with experience to compare these?

Maybe I had unfair expectations as I'd never seen giant sequoias before.

While they were impressive at Yosemite there didn't seem to be all that many.

<b>we would like to do a 1/2 day float trip somewhere along the way, how do the trips in Moab, Page, and Yosemite compare? We are interested in scenery, not rapids!</b>

The Colorado River at Moab is free flowing (ie, not controlled by a dam) so the flow is very high early in the summer, then very low (boring) later on. Even when it's high you can find flat-water trips that have no rapids though. Scenery in the general area is absolutely top-notch, one of the best places in the southwest, but the river bottom isn't as scenic unless you are in one of the canyons (except maybe the Fisher Towers area), and the canyons is where the rapids tend to be. Lot of outfitters in Moab. Great choice.

At Page the river flow is controlled by the dam releases and flat-water trips take place beginning near the base of the dam. You're in a fairly deep canyon here, beautiful sandstone walls. This photo, taken at Horseshoe Bend overlook just south of Page, shows part of the river and canyon you will be drifting thru, to give you an idea. http://www.dreamkatcherslakepowell.c...shoe_bend.html

The Page area is also surrounded by great scenery, though I don't think quite as much as Moab. Another great choice for a calm river trip though.

Not certain where the flat water stuff is at Yosemite but the scenery is terrific of course. I did an extremely difficult (Class V) 8 mile run there once, the Cherry Creek run on the Upper Tuolumne, and it was basically 8 miles of difficult narrow rocky rapids, with a total drop about half as much as the entire 240 mile drop of the Colorado River thru the Grand Canyon. In other words, in 8 miles of river you had as many rapids as in 120 miles of the Grand Canyon. So I'll vouch for the scenery, and there are mostly easier runs on the main Tuolumne, but in general for scenic flat-water rafting I'd pick Moab or Page first.

They grow is small 'groups' in SNP, trails lead to small groupings of several trees. The size of the trees was incredible, esp. the ones that had fallen in the forest, and you could really 'see' how tall they were - somehow more visible when the tree was on the ground. There were a few that were noted for their size and we hiked trails where we saw 25 or so, but they were spread out, and did not grow next to more than 2 or 3 other trees. Is that what you mean? or were there only a few trees to see?

@Bill H , Scenery in the general area is absolutely top-notch, one of the best places in the southwest, but the river bottom isn't as scenic unless you are in one of the canyons (except maybe the Fisher Towers area),

Thanks for info - do you mean the river isn't as scenic, if we don't do canyons (which is the rougher water), but that the fisher towers area of a float trip is the exception to that? and do the float trips in Page go through horseshoe canyon?

Some of the trees were incredible. When you can drive a carriage thru a tunnel in a tree it must be large.

For some reason I just expected more of them. Probably just my expectations.

It's also possible that the Sequoias were below waterfalls, scenery and wildlife on my priority list.

Here is my take on Big Trees

#1 is Sequoia National Park. The groves(groups) seem to be a larger. The trees in general are larger. The Giant Forest in Sequoia is just hard to beat. I would say that the groves here are several acres. Congress Trail here is great

#2 is Redwoods
There are trees for many miles here and although they are called groves, to me they go on for a long time. This is just a totally different experience than Sequoia or Yosemite.
One of the best hikes I've ever done was here--the James Irvine Trail ending with a trek thru Fern Canyon. Stout Grove are is also good here

#3 Mariposa Grove
Certainly are some amazing trees here, but there aren't nearly as many and only a few of them seem to be of the giant variety. Don't get me wrong, it is definately worth a visit. I would say this is just a few acres and to me it just isn't nearly as good as Sequoia.

#4
Oak Alley in Louisanna. Yep, I know these aren't in the same league, but they are very impressive to me.
These trees are Live Oaks.

#5
Big Basin Redwoods State Park
A few big trees here, and some nice hikes.

There are many more state parks North of San Francisco that look to have some great trees too. I haven't been to any of those other than driving on the road thru them. Very impressive drive

One other negative about the Maripossa Grove. Expect tons of people.

The largest trees in the world (and the entire solar system) are in Sequoia National Park. Don't shortchange your Mom.

Yosemite is famous for its vistas and its waterfalls. Its Sequoias are incidental. I dare say I could grow a Sequoia in my backyard, but it would be a dumb thing to do.

To get an idea, just search Maripossa Grove on youtube.com.

Thanks Myer - Hopefully Yosemite will fulfill the quest :)

and now I see the other replies, I will have to share with mom - I think I may too be disappointed, esp. after SNP. The trade-off of trees + Yosemite vs. just trees/SNP may be acceptable. Thanks again.

There is a lot more than just trees at Sequoia, but to see the rest takes some hiking effort.

I think seeing the Maripossa Grove and then The Valley would be just fine. If neither of you have seen the valley, you will be amazed. What month are you going?

To be fair, I'm a little down on Yosemite.

In my opinion they're doing their best to ruin a beautiful place. Yosemite is the most commercial park I've ever been to. Everything seems to be geared towards getting you to buy something in addition to your trip.

I wouldn't mind it if they just had ticket booths in the lobbies but the service is affected by it.

We had a room in the Valley Lodge. Unfortunately it was in the building directly opposite the office and the parking lot was reserved for tour buses from 8AM to 8PM since they have a restaurant and some other services (I believe some type of theatre). Finding a parking space and then walking to our room was a major pain.

Two of the free shuttles from the parking lot to Mariposa Grove were out of service on Father's Day weekend. They just sat in a parking lot and people had to wait well over an hour to get the ride to the Grove. Then the same thing back.

The shuttle from the Valley to Glacier Point has a charge. I'm sure that bus is never out of service.

I never saw anybody working on those buses and no replacements were brought in.

No effort was made to reduce traffic on a very popular and busy weekend. Apparently the summer Valley shuttle schedule has buses going all the way to Tunnel View near the entrance. I'm sure that would have reduce traffic somewhat and the multi-hour drive from the entrance to the Lodge.

For a park as popular as this no real effort is made to make one of its amazing sights more accessable. The parking lot at Glacier Point is small and cars are just forced to drive there and back without stopping. I think a parking lot at the start of Glacier Road and a $1. shuttle from there would be extremely popular and solve that problem.

A stop a Sentinel Dome for that hike would also enhance things.

There were other issues but this is enough.

<b>Thanks for info - do you mean the river isn't as scenic, if we don't do canyons (which is the rougher water), but that the fisher towers area of a float trip is the exception to that?</b>

booklover, are you planning on going to both Page and Moab, and just rafting one? If so I'd probably pick Page for the raft trip. Or are you just going to go to one of the two places? If so I'd pick Moab as there is more variety there with Arches and Canyonlands National Parks nearby.

Here's a pic of the Fisher Towers area near Moab, the road is beside the river and the banks are lined with the nuisance plant, salt cedar, but the area is beautiful, as you can see from this pic. http://www.rockymtnrefl.com/FisherTowercd4375.html

I don't know exactly which part of the river they use for flat-water trips, it probably depends on the water levels.

<b>and do the float trips in Page go through horseshoe canyon?</b>

The trips go thru the area in the photo below Horseshoe Bend Overlook, which is part of Glen Canyon, and about 5 miles downstream from the put-in place below the dam, 9 miles above the take-out place at Lee's Ferry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsesh..._%28Arizona%29 for more photos and info.

In general floating thru a canyon with high walls is more scenic than floating thru flatter areas lined with riverside vegetation, like the salt cedars, which can block the views. Either trip would be fine but the Page float is probably more scenic.

Here's a link to a company in Page that offers these trips, you can see from the photos what's involved: http://www.raftthecanyon.com/

Yosemite may be a bit crowded at times - but you can still get away if you do some exploring. And it does get full up at Glacier point - so either go early - or take a picnic lunch to enjoy while you take turns waiting for the parking gods to free up a space for you. :)

And sometimes - they let Astronomy clubs set up their telescopes at Glacier Point (in exchange for free camping) - and you can look through them at night to see some amazing star clutsters, etc.

It's also fun to rent bikes to peddle along the Valley Floor - and you can find places where the shuttle buses don't tread. see: http://tinyurl.com/8y5sr67

And the trees in the Mariposa Grove are certainly big enough to impress anyone who hasn't seen trees that large before.

BTW - there are also some fairly good size trees over by Crane Flat - if you don't get a chance to get all the way to Mariposa Grove. In general - see this map: http://www.yosemite.ca.us/maps/yosem...erview_map.png

Here are a few pics from one traveler's journey:

http://herestoafulllife.wordpress.co...d-river-float/

Tomsd,
I had thought about heading to Yosemite next year 2013 over July 4. You just confirmed my fear. I had an extra day during that period, but I think I would be far better off going at a different time. We were there a couple of years ago 3rd weekend in May(I think Memorial Day should probably be avoided as well). Anyway, the crowds weren't all that bad during that period. Waterfalls were full blast too. However, Tuolumne Meadows and Tioga Road were still closed. We had planned on doing the Panorama Trail, but Glacier Point Road was closed too(was a big snow year). We ended up just hiking the Mist Fall and returning on the JMT.

Great info, I knew you would all be helpful! We are driving from MI, and seeing the sights as we go. So Moab is our first stop, Page (antelope cany)is also'on the way', we have 2 screenagers 14/17 with us as well, mom won't hike (learned that last year) - why I wondered which float trip was best- I am thinking floating would be a good way to get my mom more 'into' the parks w/o having to hike. The pic links are amazing - esp. b/c I know that they hardly compare to being there. Yosemite is still on the agenda, we won't need the shuttles to get to Maripossa Grove, we are stopping there on our way out of the park, early, so we may be ok. Hopefully we can park and stay parked for the rest of the time. (Staying in tent cabin)

The Mariposa Grove shuttles are not to get you from the Valley to the Grove. They are to get you from the general parking lot near the grove to the actual grove itself.

I think the amount of parking close enough to avoid the shuttles is very, very limited if it actually exists. I don't quite remember.

www.deserthighlights.com in Moab for you sceenagers. Totally amazing and will top EVERYTHING. Very safe. My daughter and I have been with them twice.

There are a ton of options for floating trips around Moab. Green River, Colorado River,etc. Also, you could do a hummer tour. Slickrockair.com is a good way to get a view from the air, and I thought they were reasonable.

Your mom won't hike, but surely she would go the quarter mile to Double Arch, Windows Section, and Balanced Rock in Arches. Those are all only a 10 minute walk.

Where else are you going? Goblin Valley isn't far from Moab and it is definately high on my list of really cool places in Utah.

Yes, there is parking right at the Grove(very limited). There is a shuttle that runs a mile or so away. There is also a shuttle/tram/train(whatever you wanna call it) that runs around part of the grove itself. If granny doesn't want to walk she can take that.

We did the smooth water raft trip from Page and also went to Antelope Canyon. You do walk through Antelope canyon, but it is flat and sandy, not a hike. I have some pictures of both at www.flickr.com/emalloy2009/sets in the 2008 set if you want to psych up mom.

The upper part of the mariposa grove is one of my favorite places on earth. Something about the little muir cabin at the base of the big trees is so wonderful. Regarding yosemite and trees, the key to Mariposa Grove is to go as early as you can in the morning. If you can walk from the parking lot up to the grove, then go really early before the tram begins operationg and it will be quite quiet, even in the middle of summer on a weekday. So you hike up the hill and through the groves. You can see the distances on the map and can call and chat with rangers if you need more info. I did the loop backwards, went up to the higher grove first. Saw birds and a fox on the way. The flowers at the upper grove, near the cabin were soooo lovely. On the way back i went through the lower grove which was, by then, beginning to get more populated. If you need to take the tram, then get there before it opens and get on one of the first ones up.
The key for the rest of yosemite is to be out and about when others are standing in line for meals. By the way, the little nature center at happy isles is lovely and small. We try to visit the park each year either before memorial weekend (dogwood blooms) or after labor day. It is lovely and can be enjoyed well. Sit by a quiet part of the river, away from the buildings and roads, eat your packed sandwich, and just listen to the river and the birds. Ahhhhhh.

suz,
I thing there's a person in the group that either won't or can't hike.

I agree with you that Yosemite is beautiful. I was out very early in the morning taking photos and had no problems. However, once the day starts you've got issues.

I spent 4 hours in traffic getting back from Glacier Rd to the Lodge in the Valley. All of the waiting was inside of Tunnel View.

My daughter who stayed in the Valley that day and took shuttles to the activities her and her daughter did also ended up sitting on the shuttle for several hours.

The day we went to the grove had even more issues. On the way back we went down Glacier Rd. The cars were just back up as the small lot was full and there was no other way there.

A bear was walking around about 50 yards off the road and that caused more issues (that's fine as bears are special). She somehow pulled over on a side and we jumped out to take photos of the bear.

Oh, it is going to be very difficult to avoid congestion in Yosemite . . . we had a lot of trouble in Yellowstone last summer - buffalo were the culprits though - hours in traffic, and it was not pleasant. My mom is 71 years of age, and gets around well, but last summer she would not venture out on any trails, so I am planning accordingly. (She just waits for us, so we will still do some short hikes.)

I did not realize the shuttle was to get to the Maripossa Grove - thanks for repeating- I am a little slow sometimes, and the upper part sounds like my kind of place. We will just have to get out early - difficult with teens, but b/c we come from EST. . .The whole trip is long- 1/2 with mom and 1/2 with DH :) - I am saving Zion, hwy 12, CRNP, for the return trip to hike with DH! and am using a lot of info from previous posts to plan -Thanks so much! (and we will be in YNP July, Sat-Mon, dates were/are not very flexible.)

Geesh - did't know traffic had gotten that bad? We are/were usually up early to drive to places if we were going to drive - or otherwise were riding bicycles around - or walking. And never have had a shuttle bus wait long at all - so guess we have been fortunate?

As always the key is GO EARLY to the most popular sites/ones that require the most driving, and plan accordingly for the rest of the day. Hey - getting to the pool for an early afternoon swim (before all the hikers come back) is also great - and then taking a little mountain high nap before dinner is also very nice. :)

And the cynical side of me thinks that perhaps they are letting all the traffic into the valley floor - so they can then promote a carless valley after people complain about all the congestion?

and forewarned is forearmed!

I'm all for a carless Yosemite Valley, just like Zion.

It's really a shame that they've allowed such a beautiful place to be ruined by traffic and they desire to commercialize everything.

If they built a parking lot where the main road meets Glacier Road and had two or three shuttle buses going back and forth with one stop at the Sentinel dome trailhead I would definitely pay a couple of dollars for the ride.

Don't get me wrong. I am all for a system like that - and we loved some of the carless villages in Europe also - such as Zermatt and Murren.

I think you can still work with/around the current situation - again - IF YOU GO EARLY.

Booklover44, for a scenic river trip without any whitewater then you need to do the one out of Page that goes through the Glen Canyon. It is an absolutely fabulous trip, with beautiful canyon cliffs, great narrative, and relaxing experience.

The trips out of Moab are more for adventure and fun. The section below Moab is mostly flat water and better scenery than that above Moab (Fisher Tower run), but there are no take outs, so you have to motor back and not many companies offer that.
On your way into Moab, if you are coming on I-70 then take the Cisco exit and take hwy 128 into town. Beautiful drive, but it isn't signed on the freeway so you have to watch for exit 214.

Can't comment on Mariposa Grove, it was snowed in the only time we visited.

There are actually two exits within a few miles to 128(I think one takes you thru Cisco). I don't know for sure, but surely one of those would have a sign.

Canyonlands By Night-does what I assume InSandy means by flatwater below Moab. Don't go to far below or you'll have grandma on The Cateract Canyon.

Why you'd do the canyons boat by night I've never understood, you miss the color so they project their own? I don't get it.

I'm not sure I remember seeing the other exit for 128, though it would be easy to miss. Neither of them mention Moab or Arches.

Alright, did some 'homework', and looking at maps, I can see how 128 would be easy to miss, I'll be looking and it looks like an incredible drive (great start to the SW landscape) and in Maripossa grove, it looks like we could take the tram up, and then hike down (mostly) the elevation gain is not that much, but it is always easier going downhill! That way we could venture a little more into the upper grove. The jury is still out on the rafting . . .