Should I be worried about this San Francisco vacation rental?
 

After weeks of searching, I think I finally found an ideal apartment for our family of 5 in San Francisco. However, I wanted to get others opinions to see if I am just being paranoid or my discussion with the apartment owner/property owner raises any red flags.

I sent an email on Monday and did not get a reply the next day(Tuesday) so I decided to call the number on VRBO. The first number listed went to a voicemail for Clyde, so I decided to call the second number, and a woman named Adriana answered. She was very polite and even adjusted her rental terms to fit within our time frame, but a few red flags went up for me:

1. All the reviews on VRBO mention that it was really easy to deal with Clyde - there was no mention of an Adriana. After speaking with her, I wrote her another email asking if both she and Clyde own/operate the apartment. She didn't answer that question, but the email address was from a Clyde, so I might be overreacting.

2. We are traveling with our parents(who will be paying for the apartment) and I asked Adriana if it was alright that my mother call her to go over the details, like the security deposit. She said no, she only likes speaking to one person in the party, and she really doesn't want anyone calling her...she rather do everything by email. Now, is it just me or does that seem really suspicious? I mentioned this to my mother, and she is not happy about not being able to speak with Adriana since she is the one paying.

3. Is it safe to pay a large security deposit and 50% of the fee by check or paypal? I've never had to use paypal before.

Thanks!

No one is going to give you their department without a substantial deposit - and payment up front. You can look for a place that takes a credit card - but most private owners don't.

I understand why someone doesn;t want calls -- they don;t want to be bothered and want to respond in their own time. If that doesn;t satisfy you (and it would;t satisfy me) then I would look for another place. (What if there is a plumbing probem and the owner doesn't want to respondbe bothered, or isn;t available?)

#1 it is ILLEGAL under SF city law for individuals to rent to u

#2 go over to Asia forum to see a poor lady who lost thousands
to VRBO doing this even with insurance.

So yes I would be VERY worried...I would not do it

Betterbidding.com for nice hotels bidding priceline

Do this boots on the ground after a nite or 2 at a good hotel

Or get a reco for an agency that does this from SF Tourism

Scammers abound on Carigslist Airbb Triadvertizer Vrobo

Mods/owners appear to be in on it for profit...

Have seen many lose thousands... CC if you must only

But I would not.

Scam Artist Arrested in San Francisco August 20, 2010 at 5:15 pm | Posted in Rental Scams | Leave a ... Apartment Rental Advertising Houses for Rent Scammer Tool Internet Crime ...
rentalscams.org/.../20/scam-artist-arrested-in-san-francisco

So caveat emptor!

I would not rent an apartment from anyone with an attitude, no matter how great an apt or deal. If there is an issue during the stay, or if there are concerns after you leave re: security deposit you most likely aren't going to be a happy camper.

It is illegal.

Not sure why the several posters above are commenting any further than this fact.

Because, just like in NY - many people just don;t want to know about things being illegal. And I must admit I didn't know it was illegal in SF too.

<<<And I must admit I didn't know it was illegal in SF too.
>>>

Neither did those of us who live here -- until that story came out about the scam artist. Unlike NY, however, it does not seem like anyone here is really interested in enforcing the law.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've only rented apartments in Europe before, and at lot of the apartments I emailed never emailed back, which was unusual for me.

To me, the biggest red flag was that she was so adamant about not being contacted over the phone if we had further questions - why? That was the most suspicious thing to me.

OK people do not make blanket statements about SF property law if you are not familiar with the details. First, it is not illegal per se to make a short term rental. It may violate an SF Admin. Ordinance for a landlord to convert rental properties to short term tourist rentals, but it is not clear that the ordinance is a blanket prohibition on such rentals. Second, the ordinance does not apply to condos, TICs, houses and may only apply to rental properties with 4 or more units. Third, the only way that it is enforced, where it applies, is if the SF Building Department receives a complaint from an interested party. Finally, most of the landlord attorneys that I know, have never heard of the ordinance, have never had to deal with a violation claim, and question whether it would withstand a challenge.

Excellent information, SAB, thank you for posting! We were considering renting an apartment for our next trip to SF, so I was dismayed to find that that may be illegal. It sounded odd, b/c there are so many vacation rentals represented by realtors on VRBO. Anyway, glad to hear it's not illegal.

Of course, you should still be careful about the person or agency that you rent from even if the rental does not violate any SF ordinance.

"It is not illegal *per se*"...I always enjoy reading statements like that.

SAB, perhaps you'd like to post a link for the city ordinance (which has been, BTW, for 30 years on the books) so the OP can read it themselves and see if they want to continue with this course of action. There are also several recent articles from quite reputable sources which address this issue. There's even a thread here on Fodor's (NeoPatrick's) from 2008 discussing this exact subject.

BTW, for anyone interested, the City of Chicago has also recently passed similar legislation about vacation rentals. I might add that the fuel behind this legislation's passage, which languished for quite some time and underwent several revisions, was when a person was fatality shot at one of these vacation rentals. Here's the link: http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en...uary12011.html

Re illegality - what MOST people who rent out on VRBO or equiv could run afoul of is renting a room/apt for $$ without a business license, and if a B and B, without a commercial kitchen. An owner could get in trouble w/out a biz license but again, as SAB has mentioned, only if someone complains.

The City of Chicago passed licensing legislation because someone was killed in a vacation rental? That would certainly make me feel more secure (not)!

I apologize for this extra post, but I forgot to mention this in my last response. I really wanted to emphasize this specific point so SAB doesn't think we are making broad statements:

The OP clearly states that they are looking at renting an apartment. They mention this not once but several times. Not a B&B or condo. So we have to take at face value that they know what they are attempting to rent.

I think that's semantics, ep. The OP surely does not care if the person doing the renting owns the condo; I would think that the OP means "not a house". It's good to warn against renting an apartment if the person offering it to you is himself a renter, and not an owner. But to say that that is what the OP would prefer does not make sense.

sf, you and I were posting at about the same time so I didn't see your reply above.

There is a Chicago Tribune June 30, 2010 blog, entitled "Chicago Condo 'Vacation Rentals' to Face
Regulation" which explains what and how this occurred.

NewbE, no it's not just semantics. And, obviously, it does matter - as underlined by legislation, not just in SF or Chicago or NY but many locals.

In fact, if you look at the various legislation, there are also other factors which might come into play, such as the *zoning* of an area.

Take a look at that hyperlink I gave you above.

exileprincess--an apartment in SF can be a condo or a TIC, owned by the individual renting it. As far as posting the Ordinance, I do not have a link, but maybe since you are so concerned about this and have read articles from "reputable" sources you can find it.