No problem wliwl. I figured you either mistyped your number or were referring to Columbus. There will always be certain folks who - due to a personal sense of insecurity and the need to always correct others - find it necessary to nitpick every last detail. Ignore 'em.

Starbuck, pay no attention to "the editor." He/she has made a ton of embarrassing grammatical mistakes.

Ah, yes... This is probably of little help but the question did ask "best college towns in the United States" and this forum would be very remiss without the mention of Berkeley.
My poor son suffered greatly when he went away to college. It took a few months before he realized he actually lived in the best college town of all!

Just curious if you've made any progress in your quest to move - it seems you've been pondering this decision for almost a year now.

Not New England but with pretty foliage is Maryland (milder winters). For a very small town, Chestertown has Washington College. About 2 hours from D.C./Baltimore; 1.5 hours to Wilmington De.
Another wonderful larger town is Annapolis. With the Naval Academy at one extreme (very buttoned-down) and St. John's on the other (Great Books), all of your academic "moods" would be covered. Less than 1 hr to Baltimore or Washington. Close to Chesapeake Bay, 2.5 hours to Atlantic Ocean. Good luck choosing but come see Maryland, the USA in minature.

Princeton would be a definite possibility considering its great location between New York and Philadelphia. During the school year there are plenty of cultural activities on campus but it gets very hot and muggy in the summer and campus life quiets down quite a bit. It's a charming town but not cheap to live in.

<i>Just curious if you've made any progress in your quest to move - it seems you've been pondering this decision for almost a year now.</i>

Thanks for asking, snowrooster. I have indeed made <i>some</i> progress in my quest, which I will outline below. I realize that, to some, it may not seem like I've done a whole lot, but I'm a firm believe in &quot;baby steps.&quot;

- I quit my dead-end job in June. Since 1997, I was working for a family-owned publishing company here in Cincinnati. It was non-stop frustration and I certainly didn't love my work. But it was stable employment, at a decent wage and with a health care plan and 401K. I had been thinking about leaving for the better part of a year when I finally pulled the trigger. Now, I'm working for myself, doing freelance design and writing. I miss the &quot;free&quot; health care (I have insurance, but I'm paying a ton of $$$ for it) and am self-funding my retirement plan, but I am so much happier. PLUS, because all of my interaction with my clients takes place over the Internet, I can live and work from practically any place in the world.

- I told my landlord that I'll be moving when my current lease expires on October 31.

- I made a trip to Burlington and Northampton in July to check them out first-hand. I also spent a few days in Montreal. My basic observations --- Montreal was absolutely magnificent. Friendly people, beautiful women, plenty to see and do. Burlington was great, but SO MUCH SMALLER than I imagined it would be!!! I thought it would be AT LEAST the size of Dayton, OH, but it appears to be even smaller. There isn't even a &quot;downtown&quot; (in terms of skyscrapers, etc...) and the closest Target store is in Montreal! I realize that some people might think its stupid to base decisions on where to live on things like whether or not it has a Target store, or movie theatres with stadium-style seating, but I love my modern conveniences. I would have to say that, as beautiful as Burlington was, size is the number one drawback. Northampton was a total let-down. I'm not sure if its because I was visiting so soon after Burlington, or what, but I was completely underwhelmed. It seemed like every other restaurant was a Thai place and every other retail store smelled like incense. I tried to give it a fair shot, but it just didn't do ANYTHING for me.

So, snowrooster, at this point I have narrowed my list down to three cities: Boston, Portland (ME) and Burlington. Here's a quick rundown of what I perceive to the be the pros and cons of each:

<b>Burlington</b>
PROS - Absolutely BEAUTIFUL town, lots to see and do in terms of retail and restaurants, young, liberal population. Close proximity to Montreal (90-120 minutes) and Boston (3-4 hours).

CONS - Its just so darned SMALL!!! Seems like affordable housing opportunities are limited to &quot;South Burlington&quot; and surrounding areas. Apts. and houses near the lake are very high priced.

<b>Portland, ME</b>
PROS: Small city, but not so small that it is without &quot;modern conveniences&quot; (yes, they have a Target!). Close proximity to Boston.

CONS: LOTS of tourists ambling around(when I was there last October --- and I hear its worse in the summer)... darn tourists, always getting in my way! Didn't strike me as a very &quot;forward-thinking&quot; type of city.

<b>Boston, MA</b>
PROS: Large, AMAZING city with tons of stuff to see and do. Great environment for young professionals; was named #2 on Forbes list of best places to live for young singles. Good job opportunities (should I ever decide to go back to working for &quot;the man&quot;).

CONS: Can this life-long Yankees fan truly ever feel at home in Boston??? Just kidding about that one... sort of. Seriously, my biggest concerns about Boston are the traffic (which I'm told is AWFUL), parking (which I'm told is REALLY AWFUL), and the outrageous cost-of-living. I'm currently paying $780/month for a very nice apartment in one of the nicest parts of Cincinnati. My jaw hit the floor when I looked on Craigslist.org and saw listings for lots of very mediocre-looking apartments for $1600 and up. I can't afford that much, and really don't want to get a roommate.

I've resolved to make a firm decision no later than September 15. Any suggestions?

&quot;some people might think its stupid to base decisions on where to live on things like whether or not it has a Target store, or movie theatres with stadium-style seating, but I love my modern conveniences&quot;

It's not &quot;stupid,&quot; it's just a matter of personal priorities and preferences. FYI, Burlington's population is larger than Dayton's. They have deliberately chosen (and sometimes fought) to NOT have skyscrapers and Targets. Sounds like Burlington and Northampton are not for you. Perhaps those of us who recommended them didn't fully understand your definition of &quot;college town.&quot; We thought you wanted that &quot;small town&quot; feeling, but your first PRO under Boston is &quot;large.&quot;.

It's true, Boston traffic is awful and housing is very expensive -- it's that old &quot;supply and demand&quot; thing. I predict that, like many young professionals, you'll end up in Boston, sharing an apartment, giving up your car and using the public transit stytem. Because there are so many college students in Boston, most apartment leases run from Sept. 1 to Aug. 31 -- and mid- Sept. is an excellent time to find a place where someone's looking for a roommate. Think of it as a small, temporary sacrifice you'll make for an economical introduction to the city.

<i>We thought you wanted that &quot;small town&quot; feeling, but your first PRO under Boston is &quot;large.&quot;.</i>

Just to clarify, I do desire that &quot;small town&quot; feeling. But I also wanted to be within a short (up to 30 minute) drive of some of my modern conveniences. I don't think that the two concepts are irreconcilable with one another.

<i>FYI, Burlington's population is larger than Dayton's. They have deliberately chosen (and sometimes fought) to NOT have skyscrapers and Targets. </i>

Oh, I forgot to ask you about this. Most of the numbers I have seen put Burlington's population at under 40,000 people. Dayton seems to be hovering around 170,000 people. Do you have information that suggests otherwise?

Starbuck, you don't appear to have taken the seasons into account -- Burlington and Portland will give you much more emphatic winters than the Boston area, so what you gain in terms of lack of traffic congestion you may lose in terms of number of days when it's a major logistical challenge just to get to a grocery store because of the weather.

You really have a Papa/Mama/Babybear choice here in terms of size, too. Boston is very urban compared to the others, and you will have to learn to tuck your car away (or even give it up) and live a different lifestyle. This is NOT &quot;college town&quot; even if you live in Cambridge/Alston/Somerville. I love it, miss it, but it's a faster pace than Dayton for sure. Portland has some capital-city things going on, but it's smaller, more provincial/local than Boston. Burlington is still smaller, more reflective of the college(s) there.

Also, if you like to travel away from home frequently, you can get to a lot more places nonstop from Boston than from Portland, which in turn offers more connections than Burlington.

What happened to Northampton (and did you look at Amherst?)?

I just saw what you said about Northampton -- well, these impressions are strong so you'd not look forward to moving there. Too bad.

Thanks for the reply, Cassanda. You make some good points.

Starbuck - The City of Burlington is only about 38k population, but the metro area has close to 200k.
Anon-The Burlington area has not &quot;chosen&quot; to not have a Target. I bet we'll see a Target in the Burlington areain the next 5 years or so. I actually wasnt aware that there was one in MTL...IKEA for sure. The closest Targets I know of are in Concord, NH and/or Glens Falls NY. I can tell that amongst people I know up here, it would be very welcome.
Anywho...good luck Starbuck. You've got a big decision to make. Of course my vote is for Burlington, but it certainly is not for everyone.

PS...anon - you're right about skyscrapers. Burlington has height restrictions on buildings to protect views of the lake.

Interesting thread! I was going to put in a plug for my alma mater, Middlebury VT, but it looks like you've already ruled out that part of VT due to Burlington's size.

Have you considered the West Coast at all? Bellingham WA might fit the bill--it's about 90 minutes from Seattle (to the south) and Vancouver BC (to the north) and is quite a nice small city and home to Western Washington Univ so it has a college town sensibility.

If you're from Cincinnati, you're no doubt familiar with Bloomington, IN (Indiana Univ.), but it gets my vote! So much culture due to IU's School of Music, and 1 hour from Indianapolis. Beautiful campus, great up-beat town! (And they have a Target, too!) But maybe it's too close to where you are now, and it's sure a long way from New England...

Starbuck, since you are one day away from your target date decision, I just wanted to wish you the best of luck. Making a decision like that is not easy and at least you will be leaving a place you dislike and go where you might be happier. Best to you.

I would toss in a vote for the Western Mass. area (Northampton, etc.)

My impression of Portland, ME is similar to yours. It is a beautiful city, but not &quot;forward thinking.&quot;

I visited there recently and encountered a lot of hostility for being an outsider. I was treated with a certain degree of scorn when, for example, I would show my out-of-state ID at a pub. Really got under my skin, I have to say...

Ithaca, New York. Home of Cornell and Ithaca College. Situated on Lake Cayuga which each college on separate hills overlookiong the town and lake. Car free pedestrian mall downtown, movies, art cinema, theater, music, surrounded by hills. Ithaca is in the wine belt of New York with vinyards and wine tastings to explore. Six state parks in the vicinity the largest being Letchworth &quot;The Grand Canyon of the East&quot; with waterfalls and hiking, camping etc. All the services of a city with a small town feel. In addition you are only 4 hours away from NYC