San Francisco panhandlers
 

Just returned from my 6th trip to SF in the last 20 years. This trip we were particularly appalled @ the number of panhandlers downtown. NY has eradicated this problem to such an extent that I had forgotten how annoying it is.

We were in SF two weeks ago and heard so much about the panhandlers there. Yes, they were there, but not so much that it interfered with the enjoyment of our trip.

It is true that you don't see this around Manhattan like you used to. You can say NY eradicated it, or you could say that these people were forced to go elsewhere.

Seattle has the same issue currently. It is a huge social problem, much more than simply being "annoying" to the tourists IMO.

I live in Manhattan and there are plenty of "panhandlers" here, but they are almost always encountered sitting quietly on the sidewalk -- shall I say "respectful" panhandlers?

In downtown San Francisco, in contrast, many/most of the beggars are intrusive and rude -- they get in your face. I've asked before, Why is this aggressive invasion tolerated?


(I just returned from 5 nights in San Francisco. I stayed in Marina/Cow Hollow and encountered zero panhandlers in that area. And I love San Francisco -- but the rude begging is a problem.)

If you don't like aggressive panhandlers, stay away from Sacramento's K St Mall! b(

SF is a walk in the park compared a to a stroll down K St. sometimes.

I wouldn't call our panhandlers aggressive in the sense that one would fear for one's safety. They are sometimes aggressive in their intruding on other's space and being blatant.

I usually answer a requested panhandler with a "Sorry, but no."

Whatever you do, don't be an enabler by providing money for a future drug/alcohol binge. It perpetuates the problem. The truly compassionate thing to do is not to give money.

Native, so did you drop a couple of quarters?

The locals don't give cash, only the tourists. Get rid of the tourists, I say, and there will be no problem!

I simply tell them either, "No", or that I've been using plastic to pay for everything. I've never met a beggar with a card swipe machine.

I had one actually grab my arms in a doorway in SF. I'm not a big person, and I initially got spooked, but faced him straight on. He didn't easily let go. And I NEVER have any problems saying no. But I didn't like that he could get away with that behavior, seemingly repeatedly.

My guy is no spring chicken and he went John Wayne eyed, so confronting the panhandler was not my primary problem that night. He promptly said "get a job" and several other things not as nice that I would not type here.

And right after (merely hours later) we were lucky enough to hit the Bush Man. And by then I was starting to worry about my guy starting an assault.

Honestly, it was the biggest turn off I have ever encountered in traveling.

We have always had minimal panhandling in Chicago. Bums go where there is better weather. The gutter sleeping alcoholics on Madison Ave. West have been gone for 15- 20 years now.

We had some problems in the O'Hare tunnels in winter. Many homeless are mentally ill, but some case studies show that some of these most successful panhandlers are not homeless by any means.

I hear they are starting to show in the Water Tower area. But our police would never tolerate the numbers and behavior I witnessed in SF.

I find panhandlers are less annoying if I keep in mind that I have no obligation to speak to people I don't know. However, I usually greet their requests with "Good Morning," "Hello," "Hi There," or some such.

I lived in NYC for thirty years and moved out in 1990 shortly after a panhandler grabbed me by the arm at 10:00 a.m. at 56th Street and Avenue of the Americas and spoke to me in an intimidating tone.

I do not make eye contact or give any response to panhandlers. So far I have not had any problems although I sure have felt annoyed at times. I can get a very grouchy look on my face when necessary which seems to work.

Please don't give money to panhandlers, it only encourages them. There are charities one can donate to if they feel they would like to help out.

SF many years ago started paying a welfare check to the homeless which from everything I have heard was the largest in the US. Then add in the more or less pleasant weather and the word got out.

And so liberal/tolerant SF has a problem they do not know how to fix.

It is important to know what areas to stay out of, especially after it starts getting dark.

A request to everyone in the United States:

Please remember that many panhandlers are not just nuisances. They are human beings deserving of compassion. Families are suffering with them: a mother, a father, siblings and maybe even children.

Many are mentally ill. Many are drug-addicted. Many chose the street to escape abusive situations at home. Had they come from well-off families they'd probably have made it to rehab or a mental health facility. Unfortunately not everyone is that lucky.

I have been bothered by panhandlers, both at home and on vacation. I feel guilty for having so much when they have nothing.

I am not an American, but I have visited many US cities and find your treatment of the poor appalling. These people have no way out. Where are the social programs to help?

I cannot comprehend how so many people ignore those in the Fourth World so easily. Shuttling people to the poorest neighbourhoods for the convienience of the rich does nothing to solve the underlying issues. Where is the humanity?


Sincerely,

A Canadian wishing for a kinder world.

I give 'em loose change sometimes..depends on the situation. I really try not to be judgemental and I go through the gamet of emotions from feeling sorry for them, fron disgust, from "get a job you creep", to wondering what brought them to this end. I always look at them and try to imagine them as a baby and what happened in between. And yes, some of them can be pretty scary. I also know some are fakes, a lot are alcohol and drug addicted. So, anyway, I've always been a "soft touch" if the circumstances are right. I remember as a little kid shopping with my granparents in Portland, asking my gramdma if I could give some money to a guy that was panhandling. I actually think she gave him a quarter or something like that. Probably would NOT have if I hadn't asked her to. LOL

Hi, rainforest! I appreciated your message very much.

Some of problems of the homeless date back to the Reagan era where a lot of the mentally ill were no longer to be treated as a public health problem and, more in the spirit of Marie Antoinette's "Let them eat cake" solution for the starving poor, they were let loose on the streets.

Personally I can remember a past when there were NO homeless on the streets of San Francisco.

Along with the mentally ill there were a lot of single moms with very young children. I have never gotten over the shock of seeing a busy SF financial district square completely covered with homeless bodies when night approached.

Not all of the homeless are drug addicts or winos.

It has always been very puzzling to me that many Americans turn their faces away from those who need help the most: the mentally ill and the single mothers. I, too, have asked: "Where are the humantarians in this supposedly "Christian" nation?"

Do I give money to the homeless? Every time. Why? Because of a single thought: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." God has blessed me; to what purpose should money be hoarded - a bigger house, a better car? A nation a billion times richer than Midas refuses to take care of its weaker citizens, but wants to cut more social programs.

"Where is the humanity?" Bravo, a question well asked.

It's absolutely true that some panhandlers are quite capable of getting the help they need in other ways - either by approaching agencies that can help them, or by getting real work. However, please be aware that as other people have pointed out, many of these folks are struggling with problems that you and I can only guess at.
Years and years ago - the late 50's and early 60's, more or less - psychiatry progressed to the point that there was medication available to effectively treat psychosis. The down side of that was that they essentially opened the doors of the psychiatric hospitals and sent everyone out to "live in the community" - a community that didn't want them and had no resources in place to look after them. Many of them found accommodation with neglectful, exploitive, or even abusive landlords and ended up in far worse situations than the hospitals would have been. We still err on the side of not providing enough for the mentally ill in terms of community supports or even - and I only feel comfortable saying this because I've been working with them for more than 30 years - keeping them in hospitals because only there can they be encouraged to do things like eat properly and keep themselves clean. Very often the community doesn't take on those responsibilities, understandably enough. Some of these individuals end up on drugs or booze because it's so easily available and provides the illusion of short-term relief. It's not a simple issue. I feel sad when I see panhandlers, and occasionally give them something. I don't like aggressive behaviour any more than anybody else does, but I don't necessarily think that giving somebody a few bits of change "encourages" them. They don't need encouragement. They do this stuff despite frequent and often physical "discouragement" from people on the street.

I think that one thing that everyone does not understand is that a lot of us who do not pass out money here or there to panhandlers do not do so because the money usually goes for drugs, alcohol or cigarettes. My late DH offerred so many people the opportunity to have him buy them a meal and they would practically go ballistic. They obviously did not want money for food.

Now, a lot of us do try to help those in need. We donate money to charities such as the SF Chronical's Season of Sharing each year. The money is used to help those in need rebuild their lives. Sort of along the lines of rather then giving a man a fish so he can eat for a day teach him to fish so he can eat for a lifetime.

Many donate to places like St. Anthony's Kitchen which does a fantastic job of feeding the needy.

It seems that some here think because money is not passed out on the street that one has a cold and uncaring heart.
Or that one is too selfish to care about others because they are so busy spending money on "stuff".

It is never smart to assume that you know what other people do to help others. Many do not like to announce what they donate as they feel that is more or less like bragging.

Furthermore there are many of us that donate money at various times of the year to buy items like blankets/pillows/stuffed toys so that foster children will have their own items. Their is a local organization in my city that help single mothers and their children get back on their feet and it is amazing how many donations they receive. I just gave a new microwave for a single mother with two little ones. I could go on an on what I and my family and my friends do.

Sorry if I sound like I am lecturing but although I don't feel like I have to defend my actions I do feel it is good to give others something to think about. Best not to assume about things unless you have the facts. Best regards to all who care about those in need.

Yes, some are not really homeless, but panhandling because it's easier than working a 'real' job.

But I do know a woman in her late 70's who has a son (in his 50's) that's schitzophrenic (not sure if I spelled that right). She can get him committed into a treatment facility. He gets medicated and is ok. Then he is released because he's on his medicine and is doing ok. Outside of the hospital, he gets off his medicine and things go downhill fast. Then the mom has to get him committed again.

And the circle goes on and on.

She won't be around forever and maybe her health will go so she can't get to the courthouse and start the commitment procedures.

She does her best, but one day she won't be around and what will happen to her son? Probably out on the streets. And who knows what will happen when he's off his medicine for a long period of time.

"Where are the social programs to help?" - they are there, I know. My family of 4 (husband, 2 small children) came to San Francisco with virtually no posessions, we went through the Welfare system, and I can tell from my own experience - they do help. Education for kids and adults, adequate nutrition, rent, medicine - all taken care of.

But this was managable under one condition: if the parents are clean. So for us it was no problem, we were poor, but learning and moving up. The next door neighbours's children from the same former soviet union suffered because parents drank, smoked, had late night parties.

"Where is the humanity?" - I guess in the laws. Does any of you know that any mental person, even a schyzophrenic, can't be taken to a hospital for a treatment unless somebody PROVES he is a danger to himself or others? So if somebody is not attacking another person with a knife, s/he will not get treatment even if his immidiate family suffers. Example: a guy set parents' home on fire, only after that they took his to a hospital. Insurance will cover few days, then what?

People with mental problems get hooked on drugs and alcohol much faster then the healthy ones. To get treatment they must seek treatment themselves. I'm afraid there is a long wait for those few who want to stay sober.

I wish I knew how to solve. Until then - no cash hand-outs, only checks in the mail.

Thanks, FainaAgain. I refrained from answering that question because I know "too much" to relate in any meaningful way to someone like rainforest. I haven't the gift anymore.

If you are on the front lines of this and I have been for many, many years- but no longer- then you would know that there are MANY resources out there who work with this population extensively and at great costs to themselves.

One of the biggest problems with our welfare system is that the people that really need help are much too sick to navigate the system and actually get it. Most of the time, those that do get SSI/disability money are well enough to work.

I do not give panhandlers money.

Rainforest, you asked a good question, and I'm glad this has moved on from simply how annoying panhandlers are, but one also has to consider how easy it is to get jaded. I encounter several panhandlers a day (and have for many, many years) from the guy who I sometimes have to kick off my front stoop when I leave my apartment to people on the subway, etc... it becomes very difficult not to get jaded, and I know that I have. I know the stories and even names of some of the homeless guys in my neighborhood, and many of them have been offered help, and even have homes they refuse to go to, there is one local guy who has been taken to the hospital many times for a medical condition he has, but refuses treatment ‘preferring’ to sleep in my alley (just a month ago I had to call the police because a drunk guy passed out on my stoop blocking my door so I could not get into my house and would not move no matter how much I yelled and pleaded ... he was fine, when the police came he 'woke up'). While I support charities and even sometimes do volunteer work to combat these problems, and know to a point from whence these problems came, for those who live with this as part of our daily lives, it is a shameful struggle sometimes to not make these poor souls invisible, and I don’t always succeed.

Not really social commentary, but a quick update on Bush Man.

Was entertaining friends this wknd & we took them to see the tall ships in port. Also saw the street performers and the Bush Man. I'm here to say that the SF Bush Man is alive and well in 2005!

Very nearby, he is being imitated by another man. There was a near altercation yesterday around 7pm as Bush Man was challenged to fight by the imposter. Bush Man remained seated on his milk crate, kept his cool, and retrieved his dictation recorder from his coat pocket to record the imposter as he was being verbally harangued.

With his other hand, he then began dialing on his cell phone. This caused the imposter to pack up and leave. As he did, he threw his cup of soda onto the Bush Man's jacket. Still cool, he deflected the racial epithets which were spat upon him by a man of his own race. Amazing way of life for the street people.

I believe that Bush Man is not so bad off, financially. He also seems to have a net of protection that is only a phone call away.

Nearby, a gull dive-bombed a pigeon in an attempt to wrest it's food away.

I'm comfortable with Darwinism applied to the human race.

Just have to jump back into this discussion.

Please ask yourselves, who is really the most compassionate - those who enable the meager existence of the agressive panhandler - or those who contribute to social programs to help those who ask for help.

Tough love isn't always pretty.

I would rather give $10 to a shelter program than 10 cents to a questionable panhandler.

rainforest, you asked a very good question about where are the social programs. About twenty five years ago we thought that institutionalizing mentally ill people was cruel and backward, so they were allowed to go there own way. The State Hospital in Minnesota (for mentally ill people) housed about two thousand people in the late 70's, Now it is empty. They have been left to fend for themselves in the name of "let them live their lives". Many of them ended up homeless and walking the streets. I think it was a social mistake.

Last year our MN legislators allocated 7.5 million dollars to have the state hospital torn down.

jorr -- true, this had a huge impact on the cities where a lot of these people ended up on the streets. I recall Uptown in the 1980's (a section of chicago) was hit quite hard with a mental unstable homeless population after this happened.

We had similar experiences on our last trip to S.F. Very agressive, not just asking but following and boardering on harassment. By nature I am caring and try to remember that we all have needed a little help in our lives and when things are "good" we should try to give others a helping hand. But in these circumstances how do you decide whose on the level? B.F. works downtown Chicago. Every morning he passes a man holding a sign "Needs Food." B.F. one morning decides to help the guy out, purchases a breakfast sandwich and coffee at McD's. He hands it to the man who wouldn't take it and wanted money only. I don't know what the answer is but it makes me sad.

It's a mess and getting messier. It does seem Newsom's Care not Cash program is helping a bit.I do not give cash to panhandlers but do support places that provide transitional housing and prenatal care. Drug counseling and detox services are available albeit not in the numbers that are needed but available.

Did anyone else read that extended article in the NY Times a few years back that looked at who the AFDC recipients were? There was a great % of women on AFDC who had been abused as children and had significant PTSD. I don't agree everything could be solved if folks just "pulled themselves up by the bootstraps".

I think the economy is making things worse all over. Our little neighborhood is being hit by burglaries left and right.

Hi PamSF, maybe you can answer a question I have had for a long time as you are more knowledable about the situation than I am.

Although I have not seen them for quite some time for, for say 3 to 4 years there was a woman (the mother I assume) with a little girl in the Union Sq. area. They were always sitting on a filthy blanket from early morning until the sun went down. The mother appeared mentally ill and probably on drugs too. The dear little girl was so sickly looking and very filthy. The mother had a cup for donations. There was often a pathetic little dog on the blanket also.

The little girl would sometimes have some food, a hamburger, candy bar or crackers etc. She would put the food directly on this horrible germ infested blanket.

A family member would try to give the little girl some food such as a banana, apple etc (from the lunch she brought to work with her) but the mother would get very aggitated and this dear little girl would hang her head and shake her head "no" to indicate she could not or did not want to take it.

Now, I personally have seen policemen walk by more than once and they completely ignored the situation.

Pam, why did children services not get involved? That has always bothered me.
I never have understood.

Imagine the child in now a tween or teen and if in SF is involved in "heaven knows what".

If children services can go into homes to check up on reported child endagerments reports why can't they do something like situations like this?

Thanks for any thoughts or information you may have. Take care.

If that (above Love Italy's post) happened in Chicago, I believe that DCFS would be out there in a couple of hours.

All police, social workers, professional psych. etc, and even some volunteer workers are obliged by law to report a violation. This kind of begging using a child as a shil, like assault or any hands on hitting/shoving of a child would be reportable. There is an oath taken in the Soc. Services Dept. Don't know if all do live by it, but I do know I got pretty sick of calling DCFS.

A report doesn't mean removal, but it would led to investigation. Doesn't sound like anything is investigated in this case.

Hi JJ5, I am most interested in your comments. I know in my city the response would be immediate.

This thread, and typing my question to PamSF has brought up a bunch of emotions for me. I can remember that little girl like it was yesterday. What is the name of the artist that that had the pictures of the very big eye children, sorry I can't remember. That is how this darling child looked.
I think she was older than she looked, due to malnutrion and her pathetic life.
And why didn't I DO SOMETHING. I wish I knew.
I am not looking to excuse myself but the fact that the PD did nothing left me with the impression that there was nothing that could be done. And I was always going from one business appointment to another. But no excuse I know. So a sin I will live with forever. This child will haunt me forever.

Thank you for not critizing me JJ5, I truly appreciate it, as I am critizing myself to this day. Hugs to you.

You should not berate yourself. If the call had been made, that is still no guarantee that much would have been altered.

In fact, sometimes the juvenile has worsened conditions resulting, because of the angst of the parental perception concerning the investigation. This especially may happen if they are really mobile and there is no one to follow through on living conditions at one location. But sometimes, if repeatedly being reported, there may be a lawful separation to DCFS facility or foster care.

If you see something like this, you don't need to make a scene. Just make a phone call. They will know the law and what is possible where they are and at that time.

JJ5, thank you for your comments. Take care.

As the original poster of this message, I see it hit a nerve. I did not at any time feel threatened, but, yes, they were very "in my face." No, I never give money to panhandlers. I also never give money to charities when they solicit me. I understand the societal implications of "eradicating" the pandhandling "problem." They move elsewhere. I get it. I was just surprised and appalled at the prevalence. I guess the above comment is also correct. NY still has it's street people, but they are not at all aggressive. Just some thoughts.

LoveItaly~I don't know why the child was not removed from that situation except to say there are so very many underserved children. The sad state of things is CPS is swamped and cannot review every situation as in depth as it deserves.There are also some rather strong family reunification laws and guidelines that will attempt to keep kids with their families as much as possible. I've seen kids go home to situations where you've really got to wonder. For instance, why if all prior children have been removed from the home can a woman take a newborn home with her???

It's an emotional issue for certain. It is a crime I think that children are so underserved in the richest country in the world.

Hi PamSF, thanks for your comments and thoughts. I am sure you saw the recent article in the SF Chron about the 3,000 children that live in the Tenderloin and what they deal with day in and day out. So troubling.

When I lived in San Antonio I saw homeless people wearing heavy winter cloths pushing grocery carts loaded to the gills in the heat of the summer. Someone explained to me that they may have a specific type of mental illness which causes this behavior. I also wondered if they had been refusing help from people who tried to get them off the hot streets and into a shelter. It looked really sad. I suffered a heat stroke once and I can not imagine how they can survive under all those cloths.

jorr, most wear the clothes because it is the only way they have of protecting the garments they "own". If its off, it's only a matter of time before another will emancipate it. To many the shopping cart is their closet/pantry.

But aside from any mental illness, many have conditions that may make them "feel" very cold, and they are not going to experience the heat as you would. Some addictions and oudoor living conditions both cause physical changes that do this, and especially in combination.

My AZ relatives that have passed needed mid-weight jackets in Chicago during a Sept. 65-75 degree spell. With them it was just acclimation from Bull Head City climate, and circulation problems with age. I would have been dying from heat prostration with the kinds of clothing they had on.

In San Antonio, I would suspect it would be more that it was needed at night and they didn't want to lose it more than anything though.

Jorr, when I was carpooling to work, there was always the same nice elderly panhandler, so I talked to him while waiting for my car to arrive.

He said he doesn't go to shelters as they are run by criminals out of jail. He was afraid to sleep there. He seemed to be an alcoholic, just an addict without mental problems. It was in San Francisco.

A year later I met him on a MUNI bus all cleaned up, reading a cooking book, he enrolled in a program for homeless to go to work.

As for people with mental problems seeking help... how often a mentally sick person admits or understand s/he is sick? No, they think everybody around them is sick, not they.

If you are so inclined, please check out your local shelter and see how you can help.

Many shelters provide tutoring and mentoring programs for children, who because of poverty and mobility, are at a greater risk for learning and emotional disabilities.

In addition to social reform, you can help break the cycle by offering your time, energy, talents and compassion to help these kids.

This is not just occuring in urban areas. I see it all the time. Homelessness in the surburbs is a well-hidden dirty little secret which must be exposed and eliminated.