vacationdreamer

If you needed a post to let you know you shouldn't feed a gator, you'll surely find yourself some other way to get killed. That's like a cow giving a hungry caveman an apple and waiting around to see what happens after the guy is done with the apple.

GoTravel

OO, weren't a lot of the gators misplaced when the Westin and Convention Center were built on the island across from Savannah?

We were coming back to the hotel one night when we noticed a bunch of the South Carolina DNR & Wildlife guys had blocked off the road. A huge gator had been hit by a car.

OO

I'm sure they were, GoT. We only went over there once before it was developed and it was a really creepy area--smelly, marshy, and aside from the sewing machine factory ruins, the only other structures were a tugboat office, and further down, a small Coast Guard outpost. There were rumors that toxic substances had been dumped there and even the fumes were harmful...rumors probably started by the tugboat company! It really was a wasteland, and assuming there were no toxic substances, perfect for gators.

Our daughter did an internship in the Sabine Wildlife Refuge...her job was counting gators, driving an airboat into the estuaries to find them--hiking the levees with a stick for protection! The things Moms never know until after the fact...thankfully! At any rate, in that area, extreme southwest LA, the gators would often come out of the water at night and lie on the roads where they could absorb the warmth retained by the concrete, making night time driving a real hazard. It could be your gator had discovered the delights of warm concrete too.

GoTravel

The pool at the plantation I worked at was heated and we would keep it fired up until Thanksgiving Weekend. We had to pull gators out of the pool at least once a week in the fall.

They just loved the warm water.

My office (three walls were floor to ceiling windows) looked out over the ricefields and we had about six or seven big gators. After it rained, they would crawl up on the grass and bask in the balmy humid air and sunshine.

They were so amazing. No one ever fed them. I did once see a bird land on the back of a gator. Neither the bird or the gator paid any attention to the other.

Spygirl

Judyrem: WOW! THAT's interesting! That goes a LONG way in explaining to me why she died-which I was wondering about-given that most people survive a gator attack if they are not dragged under water and drown-I thought there had to be some other causal factor at issue here. But the contamination of the pond factor, that puts a whole different spin on this tragedy!

hibiscushouse

Although the alligator is no longer on the endangered list as of 1987, it is still protected and classified as a threatened species b/c of it's close similarity to the native endangered American crocodile. They are afraid that if the skin and meat are once again harvested, crocodile meat might be substituted instead.
Alligators, especially male alligators, are most aggressive during mating season, which is in April and May. They are generally solitary and territorial, with males having a larger territory than females. However, it is during mating season that the males will leave their territory in search of a mate. Many times this is when Floridians may find them in back yard pools or their garages.
However, there have been 127 alligator attacks in the State of Florida between 1972 to 1990, and 5 fatalities...make that 6 now.
Over 4000 nuisance alligators are captured and relocated every year. Many of them are being killed instead b/c their relocation habitats are dwindling.
We used to swim in many of the rivers in Florida, especially in Crystal River and the rivers in the central part of the State when I was a little girl. There were alligators around, but not in the quantity there are now. I don't think I will take my kids to the places I used to swim in. I tell my kids that they must consider that there is an alligator in every body of fresh water in the State, including golf courses. Gone are the days where my brothers used to swim and retrieve golf balls from golf course ponds.
I live on a barrier island across the bay from the mainland where there is a fresh water creek that runs into the bay. An alligator was able to get into our bay a couple of years ago, where he swam around for a couple of months between our inlet and the one to the south of us. Many people spotted and reported him, but we never saw him ourselves. Somehow, he made his way out eventually.
FYI: 150 people are killed every year by falling coconuts.
So along with the threat of man eating sharks, alligators, bears, cougars, etc..add to the list the fearful, growing in numbers, man killing coconut palm trees!

Spygirl

Hibiscus: you say: 5 fatalities between 1972 and 1990? that's not right. A 12 year old boy was killed last year in Central Fla., and also a small child, a 4 year old I believe, was killed the year before-somewhere in the last 3 years. So those statistics are not accurate. I'll see if I can find the link on the internet.

Spygirl

Okay, I'm back-yes, a 12 year old Lakeland boy was killed last year, (as I said in my previous post) when a 10 footer dragged him under. But I ALSO saw that in 2001, an 80 year old man was killed IN SANIBEL when he was walking his dog alongside one of the canals, and the gator came up and snapped his leg off-thus causing the man to bleed to death.

The statistics cited by Hibiscus on alligator deaths are not accurate.

And perhaps the title "Jurassic Sanibel" is more accurate than at first appears.

hibiscushouse

Spygirl,
Surprised me to. Seems like I remember many more, but that's all I could find when I did a search for "deaths from alligators in Florida", and various other ways of searching for it.
http://wildlifedamage.unl.edu/handbo...lPDF/repf1.pdf
That's just one of the links I looked at.
I'm running out the door, so can't reference others I looked at right now. But like I said, it surprised me as well.

yk

hibiscushouse & Spygirl-

Maybe you should read the article that LilMsFoodie provided the link for.

In the article:
< According to the state Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Melsek was the 14th person to be killed by a gator in Florida since 1973. >

hibiscushouse

I hear ya YK and spygirl.
"Since 1948, the FWC has documented 326 attacks on humans, 13 of these attacks fatal. Eight other cases involved individuals who may have been dead before the alligator attacked."
this was updated on 8/22/03
http://www.wildflorida.org/gators/nu...ck%20Sheet.pdf
It describes the 13 attacks in detail on this fact sheet.

Spygirl

yk-inaccurate statistics of alligator attacks over the last thirty years are not what particularly interests me-the frequency of deadly attacks in the last few years is of far more interest to me-and particularly the fact that two deadly attacks have occurred on Sanibel in the last three years.

I think Judyrem is right-the City of Sanibel may well have a lawsuit on their hands for not dealing with their "alligator problem," if that is in fact what it is. Two deaths in three years on such a small island is definitely a problem.

BuffaloGirl

I love Sanibel, and as I mentioned above, visit almost every year. I've never seen anyone feed an alligator, but I've seen people do some pretty stupid things around them. For example, there was on laying on the sidewalk outside of Ding Darling. Bike riders were just stopping, getting off their bikes, and walking up close to it. (I was in my car). If I were on a bike, I would have hightailed it out of there!

Another trip we drove down to Everglades City. On the way back, we drove down the Tamiami Trail and then onto a dirt road that followed along a creek. We saw hundreds (no exxageration) of gators swimming or lying in the sun. Some of them were monsters - had to be 12 or 13 feet long. Anyhow, some people had stopped along the water and got out of their car and proceeded to throw stones at the gators. I thought for sure I was going to witness people getting dragged away. Luckily, some county workers were clearing away brush on the other side of the road and ran over to them and told them to stop!

JackOneill

Let me first say: I'm sorry for the family's loss.

This post reminds me of the post in, I think 2001, that went on and on and on and on about sharks. Does anyone remember that? And how quotes and statistics were flying around. Turns out that year was one of the lowest for shark attacks. But it sure seemd spooky to some people. I remember the National Enquirer had a "feature artcicle" stating that Castro was training (yes, "training") the sharks to attack America. Ah, paranoia.

JohnD

For those keeping statistics another attack yesterday, here is link:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040728_1000.html

LilMsFoodie

Just thought I'd update this thread for those researching Sanibel vacations:
 
This is a summation of news from last weeks town meetings on Sanibel:

More alligators living on Sanibel may be relocated or killed after the city council changed its alligator policy Tuesday in reaction to a deadly attack last month.

Residents packed into the city's arts building as city leaders made policy changes prompted by Sanibel resident Janie Melsek's death. She died July 23, two days after she was dragged into a pond by an alligator that attacked her while she was trimming trees nearby.

"We really feel that the status quo is not an option at this time," said Bob Loflin, Sanibel's natural resources director.

Local police and alligator trappers now will relocate alligators deemed non-nuisances that are smaller than 4 feet long and destroy nuisance alligators larger than 4 feet. Until Tuesday, Sanibel maintained a policy of relocating non-nuisance gators smaller than 8 feet long, a deviation from the state's more conservative policy.

Sanibel's former policy was more liberal than the state's because of a special exception granted to the island.

The city's new policy, approved 5-0, took effect immediately after it passed, with the main portions mirroring that of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission policy, the standard practice throughout Florida. The FWCC policy states that non-nuisance alligators smaller than 4 feet will be relocated, and alligators deemed a nuisance or threat to people will be killed if greater than 4 feet.

"In residential, commercial and public park areas with a large number of people ... the larger alligators will no longer be tolerated," Loflin said.

Maj. Bruce Hamlin, with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, said the commission's policy, and Sanibel's, doesn't apply to J.N. "Ding" Darling National Wildlife Refuge in Sanibel Island, where many alligators are taken when relocated. Residents have said these alligators often leave the refuge, which some believe the alligator that attacked Melsek did.

GATOR POLICY CHANGES
In addition to changing the size limits on when alligators will be relocated or destroyed, Sanibel leaders took action to discourage people from feeding alligators. Among the changes: More bilingual signs and educational pamphlets warning against feeding alligators will be posted and distributed. Contractors who work on Sanibel with workers who feed gators may lose their contract. Companies that receive city permits to conduct work on the island may have their permits pulled if workers are found feeding alligators.

Feeding alligators is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of $500 and no more than 60 days in jail. Susan White, deputy refuge manager at Ding Darling, said staff members destroy nuisance alligators, but the federal policy is based not on size but on the alligator's threat level.

For the first time, Sanibel city leaders also plan to allow limited alligator harvesting through the commission's harvesting program, which is designed to cull the population in designated areas throughout the state.

And any alligator spotted near children or places in which they play now will be removed ? whether deemed dangerous or non-threatening, regardless of size ? after City Councilman Steve Brown repeatedly requested that an exception be made for children's safety.

Alligators that make residents feel unsafe will automatically be deemed a nuisance and be destroyed. So will large alligators found in heavily trafficked and public areas.

"The thing that bothers me the most is now any time anybody says they feel unsafe, that (the alligator) will be destroyed," Vice Mayor Dick Walsh said.

He said he thought Sanibel's alligator population would dwindle because alligators don't breed until they reach 5 feet or 6 feet long. Loflin said while it's true most alligators don't reach sexual maturity until then, enough of the reptiles will populate the conservation areas that alligators won't be wiped off of the island.

Melsek was attacked by a 12-foot alligator on July 21 while trimming plantings near a pond on Poinciana Circle. The alligator grabbed her on the bank from behind, nearly severing her arm and causing substantial tissue damage. She died less than 48 hours later on an operating room table at Lee Memorial Hospital in Fort Myers.

"We cannot afford to ignore the message we are getting from Janie Melsek's death," said self-proclaimed animal rights activist Claudia Burns, a Sanibel resident. "I hope that something good will come of this experience."

Since July 21, Sanibel police have received 28 nuisance alligator complaints, Sanibel Police Chief Bill Tomlinson said. Of these, eight alligators were removed. They ranged in size from 5-foot-8 to 12 feet, he said. One relocated alligator was 4 feet long, Tomlinson said.

Wildlife and city officials cautioned residents the new policy doesn't mean they can relax too much.

"You need to be careful around bodies of water," Loflin said. "Nobody should have a false sense of security. There is no way to completely prevent an alligator from being at any water body in the Southeastern United States."

http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/bonit...085084,00.html

I have pasted this article as you must be registered to read it directly. LMF

BuffaloGirl

Thanks for the update, LilMsFoodie. I'll probably be visiting Sanibel again in February, and as always, looking out for the gators is I go about my business!

Spygirl

The issue of increasingly frequent and deadly alligator attacks in Fla. is no trivial matter. For the poster above who compared this discussion with the one on shark attacks, I would have this to say:

To my knowledge, sharks do not leave the water, attack someone who is walking by on a footpath, be it dog, baby, or adult human, and drag them back into the water to kill it. That is IN FACT what has happened with increasing frequency with alligator attacks on humans in Fla., partic. in central and southwest Fla. In all of last year, there were only 5 deadly shark attacks worldwide. None in Fla. in, I believe, decades. On the other hand, there have been the following alligator attacks resulting in death and serious injury in southwest Fla. alone, This does not count the recent killing of the landscaper working in a yard in Sanibel, nor the 12-year old killed last year in central Fla. while swimming in a pond, nor the man who was attacked two weeks ago in Tavares, Fla.:

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA GATOR ATTACKS
? April 2004: Jane C. Keefer, 74, of Sanibel, was bitten on her left leg and hand while she gardened in her back yard that is bordered by a pond.

? February 2003: Helena Couto, 70, of Englewood lost part of her arm when an alligator bit her. She was trimming palmettos by a pond near her home.

? April 2002: Stephanie Feola, 43, of Port Charlotte struck an alligator while driving home. The alligator reacted by biting through her bumper and lifting the car?s front end off the ground. (Comment: SCAREE! This is a case of life imitating a sci fi horror movie!)

? Sept. 11, 2001: Robert Steele, 81, bled to death after an 11-foot alligator severed his leg below the knee. It was the first fatal attack by an alligator in Lee County since 1948. Steele was walking his dog between two swampy canals on Sanibel at the time.

? 1988: Erin Glover, 4, was killed by a 10-foot alligator while she was walking along the shore at Hidden Lake in Charlotte County.

? 1977: George Leonard, 52, was killed by an 8-foot alligator while swimming in the Peace River.

Sanibel's new policy on removing nuisance alligators is, IMO, a day late, dollar short-had it been in effect before, death and serious injuries might have well been prevented.

Tandoori_Girl

One big problem is that we are destroying the habitats of these wild creatures are we build, build, build. Then we wonder why they are getting so close to US! And why are they looking at us as food? Well of course because we've destroyed their habitat which means we've destroyed their food source so -- doh! -- they're hungry. Alligators are more plentiful than they were because they are not protected, but it would be nice if more of their habitats were protected. We are slowly loving Florida to death -- what's a hungry alligator to do?!?

LilMsFoodie

"Tandoori girls sound delicious. chop chop..." Mr. Alligator.

Just killing time here is SW Florida awaiting to see if we are Charlie's girls or not. No harm, nor foul. LMF