Relocating to California
 

I am relocating from New York to California. Worked on Wall Street for various Investment firms for years. Don't drive, use to taking buses,trains & taxi - Typical New York who likes theater, art, music, exercise, open to new ventures, etc. and would like to know where is the best place to live on a somewhat moderate income. I like working in fast pace environments that are challenging, like Wall Street. PLS HELP!

Dorna, the only place that I know of in California that even comes close to your criteria is San Francisco, but it's certainly not inexpensive. I believe it's one of the most expensive areas in the U.S., even more so than Hawaii or New York! L.A. may provide the arts and nightlife you enjoy, but you'd never survive without a car. <BR> <BR>If you are willing to have a few roommates to help cut costs, try look into S.F. Beautiful city for those who can afford it. :)

Where is the next best area to live, I was told WLA or try some places in Hollywood or Outside of downtown Los Angeles, which I'm told I could find work. I would need access to public transportation. I just don't want to end up coming from a decent living environment to a bad one. I want to be able to walk in my own residential area without fear. Thanks for the roommate, idea, I have never had one before - this seems to be an excellent resolution to a possible potential situation. I appreciate your response, I didn't think I would get any! Any suggestions you could offer would be greatly appreciated! With Much Thanks!

I'm sorry, but living in southern California without a car is really (in my opinion) not very practical at all. And I am speaking as someone who uses public transportation every day (I do know how to drive, but I sold my car when I moved to DC). When I was in LA last summer, it was clear to me that the public transportation system out there is not great for a city that size, and that EVERYONE drives everywhere. I'm not defending the system, I'm just saying I think it would be really frustrating to live in that environment without a car. The San Francisco area does have good public transportation though and I don't think you would need a car there nearly as much as you would need one in LA. <BR> <BR>Personally, if I were going to live in the LA area I think I would try to live in Manhattan Beach, which has (to me) a nice neighborhood feel to it, and you can walk to shops, restaurants, the beach, etc. But I still wouldn't live there without a car.

Dorna, you're welcome! Lisa is right on -- L.A. and cars go together. The city was designed for the automobile. Everything is spread out and not easily accessible, and what little public transportation that exists is just downright frightening. I lived in L.A. County for four years (attended college there) and I packed my bags as soon as I graduated. Very expensive and very high crime area, IMO. I never felt safe there. <BR> <BR>I think you'll find that in S.F. and L.A., it's very common for people of all ages to have roommates, because the cost of housing is so high. Check the clasifieds in the S.F. Chronicle or the L.A. Times and see how many roommate ads are there! I know someone who moved from the southern U.S. to the Bay Area, and he lived in a beautiful restored Victorian home near the Haight Ashbury district. He had two roommates to share costs and no need for a car. S.F. has cable cars, taxis, BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit), etc...., plus the cost of insuring and parking a car in the city is so high that most people can do without. <BR> <BR>Good luck!

Actually, Dorna, you probably COULD survive without a car, if you chose to live somewhere in the West L.A. area which is quite a nice place to live. There are PLENTY of "Wall Street" type environments around, especially in the Century City area which is a large office complex environment right next to Beverly Hills. I don't know what your rent range is, but if you could find something decent near Century City/Beverly Hills/Brentwood/West L.A., you would have access to the major bus lines that traverse directly down Wilshire Blvd. or Santa Monica Blvd., enabling you to walk around any of these areas (unfortunately, right now they're on strike!). These buses would also take you downtown to the Music Center for your required "culture." But there's also a major theatre in Century City as well, and probably many other small, local theatres that I'm not aware of or have forgotten to mention (perhaps even the Pantages Theatre in Hollywood, a bit further out of the way but still not impossible to get to. By the way, a new subway system [short!] was just recently completed in Universal City, so you can also take the bus there and then take the subway downtown as well). You would also be close to the beautiful, new Getty Center Museum on top of the hill in Brentwood, also easily accessible by bus. Don't despair or be discouraged -- you'll be able to do it, believe me! But as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, it's radically different than New York! <BR> <BR>

I agree with the above poster that San Francisco is certainly the place that is closest to what you are looking for. However, as they said, it is certainly not inexpensive. I do not think that it is any more expensive than New York City but is probably pretty close.

Dorna, while Ted has generously offered you some tips about L.A., you and I and every other woman out there know that as a man, he doesn't have to exercise the same kind of caution that we do. When I lived in L.A. County twelve years ago the rape statistics were one in three: one out of every three women was a rape victim. When your only choice in public transport is a bus filled with drug addicts, gang members and homeless people and general weirdos, you can see why. <BR> <BR>When light rail first began operating through L.A. they had to station police officers every one hundred yards along the stations and in all cars, because no commuter in their right mind would ride through some of the most notorious gang areas in L.A. <BR> <BR>Yes, San Francisco is a big city with its share of crime as well, but nothing like L.A. Make no mistake, the warm weather there attracts certain types of people and if you are a lone woman without a car, you are an easy target. I was assaulted twice while riding a bicycle so I gave up and bought a car for safety's sake. <BR> <BR>Are you planning to visit and check out some areas before you decide?

Doma, the posters above are certainly right in noting that San Franscisco is as expensive as New York City now, but they are also correct in their estimation that the SF Bay Area best fits your wants and needs. If I were you, I'd check out both SF and the East Bay, especially Oakland, Berkeley, and Albany (three cities which literally overlap one another). The East Bay is a tad more affordable than SF, has pretty good transportation, plenty of culture, opportunities for outdoor activity, and easy access to SF for work or play. Especially if you are willing to try the roommate/housemate oprion, you may well decide you can afford something in the East Bay or SF. I suggest checking out www.sfguardian.com and www.eastbayexpress.com, the web sites of the two major "alternative" weeklies in SF and Oakland/Berkeley, respectively, which, similarly to the Village Voice in NYC, have both extensive culture and restaurant listings and classifieds. You can get an idea of the cultural milieu and also the going prices for rentals and shares. There are many shares available for mature working folks; it's not all college students! I also recommend www.transitinfo.org as a comprehensive info site about public transportation in the SF Bay Area. www.craigslist.com is also an excellent resource for both rental and employment info in and around SF.

<BR>I have difficulty with the earlier post stating that twelve years ago, one in three women in L.A. County were rape victims. That would indicate mayhem the order of which I doubt exisited in Berlin when the Russians marched through. <BR> <BR>On the other hand, she is quite correct in the assessment of rapid transit in L.A. Though it's come a very long way in twenty years, the system is an embarrassment compared to eastern cities as well as San Francisco. It is possible to commute on the relatively new and quite safe Metrolink, but that system only links far-outlying communities with Union Station. <BR> <BR>It sounds like Dorna wants to reside in an urban locale. When I first read her post, I immediately thought of some friends living in Silver Lake--a little community just northwest of downtown L.A. The town has a nice stretch of shops/cafes/etc. and a lot of converted apartments. Conceivably, one could live there, ride the bus downtown for work, and then return safely--all during the daytime. It's close to the Music Center as well. And the people I know certainly don't make a lot of money, but they live in a fairly nice, diverse neighborhood in a large apartment. They do have roommates, though. <BR> <BR>Anyway, it sounds like San Francisco is more suited to what Dorna is looking ofr, but I do think it is possible in L.A.

Anyone who has lived in the L.A. area knows that it IS mayhem -- and that was before the riots. Heard the stats on the evening news, can't offer you any more evidence than that, but as a woman who lived there I can tell you that I was followed, accosted and ambushed by strange men so many times that I lost count, so I never personally never doubted the news report. L.A. County encompasses some of the highest crime areas in the nation. <BR> <BR>It may be difficult, but if you haven't experienced things that others have (like harassment or discrimination) you can't say it doesn't exist, just because it never happened to you. <BR> <BR>As a New Yorker you are obviously a savvy city-dweller Dorna, so you know how to be cautious. <BR> <BR>

God almighty! How in the world did I, a woman, manage to live for ten years in L.A. and feel safe there? I must be missing something, but I would ask Dorna first of all, does she have a job??? Maybe she just thinks she can walk into to any one of the cities and get a job with an investment bank? At any rate, San Francisco seems to be more what she's looking for, but life in that city is not easier and no cheaper than in New York. Plus is no snow.

XXX -- you are definitely a scaremonger and a LIAR!! One in 3 women? Pure NONSENSE!! Where did you live anyway -- South Broadway? And the subways in New York are filled with human TRASH!! And did you ever check out the crime rate in EAST PALO ALTO?!?

Pay no attention to xxx ridiculous comments about rapes in Los Angeles. Los Angeles certainly does have some problem areas like most large cities. However the official crime rate in Los Angeles is lower than most major cities in the US. <BR> <BR>Do not take my word for it. Check it out at the following web site: <BR> <BR>http://www2.homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html <BR> <BR>It has the national crime lab calculator as well as lot of other neat stuff for relocating. <BR> <BR>I personally would choose San Francisco but Los Angeles is not nearly as bad as many people would like you to believe. Its public transporation certainly is not on a par with San Francisco.

Oh please, as usual people post here not to help the original poster with their question, but to insult, sneer and condescend to others who HAVE tried to give information. Put a lid on it. <BR> <BR>Dorna, are you just looking for a change or do you have to move? Sounds like you have a nice life in New York, why move? If I had access to Broadway plays and fabulous restaurants like you do, I don't know that I'd want to leave!

Hi Dorna: <BR> <BR>California is very different from NYC, as you must be aware. I just moved from CA to NYC. My life changed 180 degrees. You're going to need a car, you're going to be surrounded by people who wear shorts to nice restaurants ('cause anything goes in CA) and you're going to have to put out that cigarette (I'm not assuming you smoke, but smoking is not permitted in any CA bar or restaurant). If you're looking for NY in CA, you're not going to find it. <BR> <BR>That's not to say that CA isn't a wonderful place to live...just go there understanding that you're making a major lifestyle change, and you're best off going with the flow. <BR> <BR>I moved to NYC from San Diego. I think you can live a decent life in San Diego on a moderate income - at least I did. It's absolutely gorgeous there, and you'll find plenty of recreation/outdoor opportunities. Theater options are nice - Old Globe and The La Jolla Playhouse are town favorites. Restaurants are good - and you can't find better Mexican food on this side of the border. <BR> <BR>Business in San Diego isn't a fast-paced corporate environment - relative to New York. Tech firms are finding it cheaper and more beautiful than the Silicon Valley and are relocating by leaps and bounds. Telecommunications is big. <BR> <BR>All in all, I whole-heartedly recommend San Diego as a place to live. I know that when I'm ready to settle down, buy a house and stop being a fast-paced New Yorker, that's where I'm returning. Best of luck to you.

Wendy, just exactly WHAT do you mean by "gorgeous?" You certainly don't mean the Mission Bay area do you? Or downtown? Besides La Jolla, Del Mar, Coronado Island and Rancho Santa Fe, are there other areas that I missed that you find so "gorgeous?" (I assume you must be referring more to the North County area which I didn't have time to explore more thoroughly, like Vista or Poway, but then again, maybe these are not really so great either, I don't know!)

<BR> <BR>Don (previous post): <BR> <BR>I, too, think San Diego is a "gorgeous" city. As for areas you didn't mention, Balboa Park--a huge park with theaters and many museums--comes to mind, as does the view from Pt. Loma, as well as the tidepools and cliffs below. Too bad you didn't have time for a more thorough inspection; North County also is beautiful, as are the inland desert areas and Mt. Palomar.

I am planning a relocation to Cali--my husband is going to Stanford B school. While I know this is not a "relocation" forum, I was wondering if anyone knows of a good website or dicussion forum focusing on this subject. Thanks so much!

This is for Doma, in response to Wendy's post above about the differences between NY and CA. I moved from California (but the SF Bay Area) to NYC five years ago, and of course it is true that it's a very different place--that's probably why Doma wants to make the move! But I want to point out that, aside from the comment about the state non-smoking regulations, Wendy has offered her perspective as a southern Californian, and one thing you will find out when you spend time in California is that, other things aside, northern and southern California are culturally different. While people in California are in general more "laid back" and casual than NY, the SF Bay Area is not as casual as San Diego; you will not likely see people in shorts in nice restaurants, even when shorts weather actually occurs there (not too often in SF itself). And it's obviously incorrect to say that you will have to get a car. There are places where it is difficult to survive without one, but there are also places where it is not a problem, and Doma is clearly looking for the latter. San Diego, regardless of its beauty, is not suited to her needs. She can certainly find a fast business environment in SF is she wants, and probably in LA, too. All of CA does resemble life is SD, as lovely as that is or can be. <BR> <BR>To Wendy: we had a nice exchange about the CA-NY transplant experience and restaurants in Murray Hill back in March on the NY hosted forum. Welcome to the neighborhood, and if you have any questions about neighborhood/local stuff or anything else, please feel free to email me. BTW, nothing wrong with what you told Doma, I just wanted to broaden the view on California a bit.

Don: <BR> <BR>San Diego is indeed a very attractive and clean city. Downtown is very nice and the waterfront is great. Very few cities have a waterfront like San Diegos which is very people friendly. You can walk for miles along it. Mission Bay is indeed very nice with a lot of parks and sheltered beaches. Mission Beach isn't the greatewt but Mission Bay is fine. <BR> <BR>There are many very nice small cities and communities around San Diego. <BR> <BR>I have lived in many areas of the US as well as 3 other countries. I believe that San Diego is one of the top cities for liveability. Great weather, clean and very nice.

I lived in LA for about 14 yrs (Santa Monica and WestLA) which included the <BR>time period some woman claims 1/3 of women were raped there, and that is <BR>nonsense. I'm a statistician and I know a lot of people don't understand or don't hear statistics correctly; often the media report them incorrectly, also--many people don't even ask themselves if some statistic could possibly be true; clearly this one couldn't and common sense would tell you that. Anyway, I was never accosted by men, etc in LA and I worked in Hollywood, Century City, and other places, lived in SM and WLA as I said, and visited friends all over the city. I moved from LA to Wash DC and THEN I was afraid. I never was afraid just walking from my car in my parking lot at night into my apt. in LA and I always was in DC. If you live in a good part of LA, it's not that dangerous disproportionaly at all for a big city. Also, it's not that expensive a city to live, it's cheaper than DC it seems to me as rents are more reasonable, utility costs are lower due to the climate, your wardrobe is cheaper, etc--it adds up. For a city of that size, LA has pretty reasonable rents. I agree SF is more similar to NY in compactness, ambience, etc and would be preferable for what you want. You can live in LA without a car, but I agree that you will be limited and not enjoy it as much, as the public transportation is okay around a small area (eg, within Santa Monica) but not for long distances. For arts, LA is good for theater especially, and music is pretty good, too. A lot of law <BR>firms & banks are in downtown LA and major banks, and you could live and work down there without a car; there are some newer nice apts in that area, but I don't think you'd want to limit yourself so much. I really strongly advise against San Diego; it has a <BR>small town, unsophisticated feeling compared to LA and SF and I get bored <BR>there after a couple days; to me, it has disadvantages of a large city <BR>(high real estate prices, bad traffic, etc) but not the advantages. Now, <BR>for reality, because I do work with statistics, I happen to have the official crime rates for all major metro areas in the US for 1995--this is the forcible rape rate for some major cities (number of rapes per 100K pop): <BR>Los Angeles 46 <BR>San Francisco 41 <BR>Long Beach 39 <BR>San Diego 30 <BR>Manhattan (NYC) 32 <BR>Phoenix 38 <BR>Philadelphia 51 <BR>Wash DC 53 <BR>Las Vegas 72 <BR>Dallas 82 <BR>Detroit 101 <BR>Atlanta 109 <BR>Memphis 127 <BR>Cleveland 139 <BR>So, LA does have a somewhat higher rape rate than Manhattan or San Fran, but it's not that high, and much lower than some of these other US cities (in general, about 51 pct of the US pop. is female so the rate of 46 rapes per 100K total pop is about 46 rapes per 51K females; by age grp, approx. 2/3 of the female pop is in the age range where most rapes occur (age 14-64), so the rape rate in LA is about 46 rapes/34K <BR>females aged 14-64, which is hardly equiv. to one out of three women being <BR>raped, even over an entire lifetime of accumulated probability. My bottom line is I think you'd like SF better, but on a moderate income, LA is better and a great city also; but you will prob want to buy a car. Thought: If you work in investment firms and have only a mod income and need to worry about costs, maybe that business isn't your forte as even beginners make a lot in it (or your idea of moderate is a lot diff. than mine)--LA is cheaper than NY, NY & SF are prob about the same. <BR>

All that doesn't change the fact that So Cal sucks.

Is it possible to live close to the beach in San Diego or North County for <BR>under 800/month rent? I'm thinkimg of moving out there from Chicago (ugh). <BR> <BR>

Charlotte, You might be able to put up a tent in an RV lot for tha t amount to be close to the ocean.

Message to MINNY: By the tone of your sentence, tell me, just what part of the country is your trailer located in anyway?!? And how many front teeth are missing from your foul mouth as well?!?

Living near the beach for under $800 /mo is virtually impossible. Rents have increased a great deal in the last couple of years. You can't get very much inland for less than $800 /mo.

Hi Caitlin - nice to run into you again on these boards. <BR> <BR>As far as my assessment of CA - I was definitely looking through SoCal eyes when I referenced a more laid back attitude and the need for a car. San Francisco may be the city that most resembles NY (and what Dorna is looking for), but when she mentioned she was looking to live on a somewhat moderate income, SF just doesn't seem to fit the bill. I grew up in the Bay Area, my folks still live there, and I've seen how much it's changed over the past 5 years. That's why I suggested she consider Southern CA. <BR> <BR>On a different subject, I've been loving NY life - we eat out quite a bit! We seem to go out downtown a lot. Looking forward to experimenting more around home. I will have to go back to our forum and write down the names of those restaurants you recommended. <BR> <BR>

I lived (well existed) in LA for 14 years and let me tell you that it is a hellhole! In that time I was held up at gun point once, at knife point another, had 3 good friends murdered in separate crimes, had friends robbed, had my car broken into repeatedly etc etc. It's not safe to be a single woman in LA! I did not live in what was considered bad neighborhoods either. <BR>For the first year I was in LA I didn't have a car and rode the bus, but only went out with friends as the bus stops are so dangerous at night...and even when I was out with another woman we were repeatedly accosted by creepy men at bus stops. It's a horrible, horrible city that I dred ever having to return to someday for any reason. Go to SF instead if you have any brains!

S.F. and bay area is a wonderful area. However, IF you can even find a vacant apartment or house, for that matter, be prepared to pay an average of $1,200 to $1,500 a month rent by yourself, or even more. The East Bay is a better choice, with BART and AC Transit (bus) <BR>Just choose living along a BART line which is easier said than done. In Walnut Creek (25 miles east of S.F.) the weather is warm and wonderful, and an apartment on the BART line will be approx. $1,500 (possibly $1,200) if realy lucky. Rents out here and real estate values are out of control. If you have a fabulous job and money's no <BR>object, then go for it. However, I'd hate to be out there scrambling to get a place. And when a place becomes vacant, you have lots of competition. <BR>Good luck to you.