Pronounciation Guide
 

I`ve noticed that we Americans seem to have a peculiar way with pronouncing the short "oh" sound in proper names. Hence we have Ariel "Shar-own", "Slow-bodan Milow-sovic", "Bow-gow-ta", "Kow-soh-voh" and so on. Europeans, Aussies and South Africans all seem to pronounce these with a very different, and shorter, "o" vowel. Which is correct?

In truth, there is no absolute measure of "correctness" because it depends on WHERE you're speaking. <BR>In Australia, Melbourne is pronounced "MEL'-buhn" with the "buhn" contracted so that the b and n are nearly conjoined without any vowel sound. If you pronounce it that way in the USA, people won't understand what you're trying to say. <BR>Better examples: there's a town in Missouri spelled N-e-v-a-d-a. It's pronounced "Nuh-VAY-duh", and if you say "Neh-VAAH-duh" people will think you're referring to the state not the city. <BR>In South Dakota, the capital is pronounced "PEER", but anywhere else, the word is pronounced like it's spelled, "Pee-AIR". <BR> <BR>Vice President Cheney states that his own name is actually to be pronounced "CHEE-knee", not "CHAY-knee", but since everyone's mangled it for so long he's given up correcting people. Thus, language (including proper names) evolves with time and society. <BR> <BR>Which is most correct? <BR>Depends on where you are, both in place and in time.

Sorry, Webster, the state is pronounced Nuh-VA-duh, not Nuh-VAAH-duh. Only outlanders pronounce it that way (I know, that's the correct Spanish pronunciation, but...)

The Queens English is the correct way to speak.

Dan, what you observe re:short "o" depends on where in the US you are. In the midwest, the long and short "o" can become something a lot like an "a" and just an "uh": "Mih-LAA-suh-vitch" "Kaa-saa--voh" etc. Aussies and South Africans are likely to put their own spin on any vowel, similarly, but the way they or anyone else pronounce foreign words is likely to be just as "wrong" as the way Americans pronounce them. <BR> <BR>For example: in Russian, ballet dancer Barishnikov's first name is pronounced (for English transliteration) something like "Mee-Khile" (Mee-kha-eel with the second and third syllables run together into one). Americans routinely pronounce it "Mick-ayl," and each non-Slavic-speaking country comes up with something different, from "Mickel" to "Meeshel" and beyond. <BR> <BR>Part of the problem is that we English speakers insist on accenting certain syllables (often next-to-last or the one before that), which makes the vowel in that syllable longer automatically for us. In many languages, the accent goes somewhere else (last syllable of Bogota, for example) or nowhere at all (Kosovo), and having an accent doesn't mean making the vowel long. <BR> <BR>Americans do have a "peculiar way" of correcting each other, though -- are you sure "Shar-own" is "wrong" or more "wrong" than "SHARon"? Do you know how Kosovo is pronounced there in Kosovo (I believe it would be closer to kawsehvaw)? <BR> <BR>Your question: Which is correct? The only correct pronunciation is the way it's pronounced there in the home country. Everything else is an approximation. Don't you think to Ariel Sharon Europeans, Aussies, and South Africans all have accents, just as much as we Americans do?

As a dictionary, I was remiss in not pointing out that the title topic is spelled "pronunciation"...(as if it matters...but I am, after all, a dictionary...it's what I do).

how is this related to travel? question answer in a nutshell - depends where you live and how people you've grown up around pronounce words. we learn mostly by imitation

When in Rome, do as the Romans do! The people who live there pronounce it correctly, no matter what Webster says.

Webster, my dear, <BR> <BR>I'm willing to wager that there are those who spell it "pronounciation" who go around feeling superior to those who say "pronunciation" because they think those people are incorrect and don't know how to spell, either. <BR> <BR>Let's see -- there's orientated, coronated, furniture suit, heinious, fall foilage, just for starters. Others?

Hey Merriam, I have a question for you: <BR> <BR>HUH? <BR> <BR> <BR>What in the world are you talking about?

Sorry, Roget -- thought you of all people would recognize the problems. First paragraph says the ignorant don't always know they are. I've had people correct me on "pronunciation," telling me it's "pronounciation." <BR> <BR>Second paragraph: no such words as orientate (it's orient), coronate (it's crown), or heinious (it's heinous). Furniture does not come in "suits," it comes in "suites" (pronounced sweets); if you have a furniture suit, it's probably very uncomfortable with all that wood under your arms. And as many on this forum have observed, it's fo-li-age, not foil-age. <BR> <BR>How about nucular (nuclear) and realitor (realtor)?

"Coronate" is a commonly used term with the same meaning as "crown".

Not that: Not in my dictionary, it isn't. No "coronate" there. It's a figment of some illiterate newsmen's imagination.

I have passed judgment (no "E" in that word, BTW) and hereby nominate myself for membership in the Pompous Arse Club (Europe forum club). Have a lovely Monday all.

More fun. <BR> <BR>Here are a couple of words that bug me when I hear them. <BR> <BR>Irregardless <BR>Often - with the t pronounced <BR> <BR>

OK, as long as we're sharing a few pet peeves, here are the ones that drive me crazy: <BR> <BR>People who pronounce the word "nuclear" as "NUC-yuh-ler" instead of "NUC-lee-er." <BR> <BR>People who pronounce the word "realtor" as "REEL-uh-ter" instead of "REAL-tor." <BR> <BR>Also, for some reason, the metro announcers here in DC can't pronounce the word "Judiciary" (as in Judiciary Square metro stop) -- when they announce it, they always say "Judisherary."

How about "supposebly"? I know several people with advanced degrees who use this word all the time! Heinious and irregardless are also annoying as other posters have already pointed out. One that is peculiar to New England (I think) is pronouncing "height" with a "th" sound at the end. And is the phrase "went missing" correct to describe someone or something that has dissapeared? I hear it on my local TV news all the time (upstate NY) but it just doesn't sound right!

"Went missing" is just one of those phrases that people have discovered, think is quaint, and are now using to death. Ignore it and maybe it'll go away. <BR> <BR>I hear around the mid-Atlantic and south, "...take and ..." -- as in "you take and get your hammer, then you take and hammer in the nail."

Okay, let's get back in the travel mode... <BR> <BR>The capital of South Dakota is Pierre. The locals pronounce it "pier," not the fancy-shmancy french pronunciation "pee-air." Been pronounced that way for over a hundred years. <BR> <BR>Your teachers taught you wrong. <BR> <BR>Hey, if you east coasters are going to panic over the fishing port Glouchester, MA as "glow-stir" and not how it looks--"glow-chester"--I want to set the record straight.

Except that it's Gloucester, without an H, and pronounced Gloss-ter.

"unorganized" drives me up the wall. <BR> <BR>We have two villages in our area that give outsiders fits. One is Leicester (we pronounce is Lester), the other is Chili (we pronounce it chileye)

How many "Paris's" are there in the country (none pronunced - sic - Paree)? What about Lima (Lye-ma) Ohio, and Berlin (BURRlin) Conn.? <BR> <BR>Glad we got Gloucester (GLOSSter -- or rather GLOSS-tah) right, but don't ever forget Worcester (WUSStah) or Billerica (Bill RICKer). <BR> <BR>And what about the street names in Tchicagah -- Mozart (MOZE art), Goethe (Goe-thee), and DeVON? <BR> <BR>

To Merriam: <BR>My Merriam Webster 10th edition dictionary has "coronate" smack in the middle of page 259. <BR> <BR>And to "whatbothersme": <BR>"irregardless" is most definitely a word...it's just a redundant form of "regardless" (not unlike "flammable" and "inflammable", which mean the same thing). <BR>In fact, the definition in Webster's specifically states that many people's reaction upon hearing the word "irregardless" is, "That's not a word". To which Webster replies, "It most definitely is a word". <BR> <BR>Sorry for being an anal retentive English freak. <BR>

Webster: I want a divorce. You obviously planted those words ("coronate" and "irregardless") in the 10th ed. when I wasn't looking, just to make a fool of me at parties! I'm sick of this more-anal-than-thou competition. <BR> <BR>It all started when I let you put your name first, even though we both know the alphabet doesn't run in that direction, just because "O.E.D." is contra-alphabetic. I suppose you've been seeing Random House behind my back. <BR>Well, that does it. I'm putting "lipocephalic" into the next edition, along with "gluto-osculatory"!

Lisa, shame on you - lol. I know exactly what you were thinking regarding nuclear - our former Prez. from Plains, Ga. He is still destroying that word, but a wonderful man all the same. I wish humanity had more like him.

Scorch, how do you say Tchicagah? <BR> <BR>Around here is a town named Mebane. Outsiders say Me-BANE while you should say MEB-ann. <BR> <BR>And don't forget Duke men's basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski (sha-SHEV-ski).

On the pronunciation of place names, one of my favorites is Beaufort, NC and Beaufort, SC. One is BYOO-fert, and the other is BOH-fert (I can never remember which is which though).

BO-FORT is NC <BR> <BR>BOO-FERT is SC. I think if you say the "e" "a" and "u" separately but close together you get the right sound.

BYOO for SC. Pronounced like Byou. It helps to be southern, believe me. Bar-b-que. We have a Buford Rd. going N out of Atlanta - the "u"'s are similar. The NC is like the Scale, if you know Dylan's song about changing times ... and the weathermen. And BYOO, like your dad's Roadmaster Buick from the 50's. Ciao.

While making fun of awkward pronunciations is truly one of life's most rewarding occupations, the reality is that we shouldn't get too caught up in the "rules." Though English rarely does so, many other languages actually change proper names to fit into their own pronunciation. French is notorious for this - "Leonard de Vinci" for Leonardo da Vinci, Michelange for "Michaelangelo"... to name only a couple in an Italian vein. At the height of the Leonardo di Caprio craze, after I had been living in Paris for a while, I began calling the aforementioned actor "Leonard de Capri." The French were not amused.

Dearest Merriam: <BR>I realize I may have been remiss in not having told you before, but I love your lipocephalism, it's one of your unique and endearing qualities....so please don't leave me right before Valentine's Day. (Besides, I don't need the aggravation of alimony payments while the market is languishing). I forgive you...just promise me you're not hiding any neologistic tendencies or latent agrammatistic genes in your heritage, OK? (I'm not a doctor on TV, I just play one in real life).

Tchicagah = Chicago -- accent on 2nd syllable. I bin to Mebbin, too! NCgirl, do you live near Rawlih-Durm?

Dear Webster, <BR> <BR>Ah, a roseate cardioid to you this day. <BR> <BR>I take everything back -- and how very gallant of you to misuse "aggravation" within the parentheses! In return I shall confess to being a closet neologist at times. It keeps the lipocephalism in check. <BR> <BR>But I shall never match those sweet souls who can think up new words in a heartbeat (continuing 2/14 theme here). I have heard: "voicetrous" (too loud and active); "rubbage" (trash or trash cans = balderdash); and "shriddled" (something that happened to flowers in a sleet storm). <BR> <BR>PS: What exactly do you play with the doctor in real life?

Scorch, <BR> <BR>I'm from Chep'l 'ill. Did you have 'cue at the A&M in Mebbin'?

Merriam: <BR> Your choice of verbiage leaves me a bit arsy-varsy (which, in the unified spirits of neologism, word splicing, and reverence for the Queen's English, would be the most appropriate descriptor of the confusion perpetrated by a ranking (varsity?) member of the Pompous Arse Club upon one attempting to maintain the integrity of the language...unfortunately, I can't refer you to the page in 'our' dictionary on which its definition may be found. It's an Old World expression. So old it predates the recipe for haggis-in-a-tube, which has been discussed and debated many times over on the Euro forum). <BR>And after all this time, I only rate a rather oblique 'cardioid' greeting? Not the genuine article...a mutated, 'half-hearted' sentiment? The whole situation has left me skepticollicky (which is when your worries begin to give you the hurries). But no more of your excuses...I've heard the contemporary insanity plea once too often. <BR>And 'we' don't play together any more. The therapy was successful and since I am he and we is us, we don't interact independently any more (in public). <BR>Hope you liked the lipocephalic-shaped cookie I had baked for you and the accompanying Valentine's roseoids. <BR>Web <BR>

Last night Emeril on his cooking show was pronouncing "Valentine's" Day as "ValentiMe's Day" - ugh!!

Web: Found the roseoids. You're wearing away my resolve against continuing as your hyphenate. <BR> <BR>And effervescent fur your explanatization of "arsy-varsy," I would surely have thought you ack-bassward. <BR> <BR>You've made it a charming Valentine's Day, but we've jest ghetto stop meading this way! In this part of the world, it could lead to the bezutics.

....bezutics, schmezutics. <BR>Irregardless of any inflammable or heinious comments anyone else may make, I still coronate you the queen of all that is fair and good in the world of diction...at least until the fall foilage appears, anyway. <BR>So are you a Europhile, Merriam?

Web, <BR> <BR>Were it not for my somewhat less than attenuated digits, I might be a nailphile. <BR> <BR>But other than that, yes, I confess to Europhilia currently under control because of hypolucretism. We verbimaniacs have largely missed the benefits of the New Economy. Fortunately, that means we're also missing its denouement (was he a 40s screen star?). <BR> <BR>And you? I realize after all these years how little we know of each other. Couldn't see the paragraphs for the terms.

I've always wondered why people want to add an extra "T" to anesthesia ("anes-steesia") and absentia ("in abstentia") -- same one as the one they pronounce in "off-ten" I suppose. <BR> <BR>And what about what happens when people confuse "prostrate" with "prostate"? <BR> <BR>Side note to Webster and Merriam: get a room. Or a shelf, I suppose.