Spirobulldog, your key words are "without much research".....while this topic has been covered before, I believe that people should at least have done a little research before asking people to put forth the effort of helping them.

My flippant dismissal of the expression "must sees" is that to me it suggests a kind of trivializing of the whole experience, as if their trip is no more than a list on which you tick things off.....I realize it is a personal prejudice, but it is just a pet peeve. People can ask any way that suits them and others can respond, or not, to their liking. That is the great thing here! All is voluntary! :)

Another pet peeve is "kids".

I hate when people say they are traveling with "kids" and what should they do, where should they eat?

People on this board are not mind readers. Do you have a 2 and 5 year old? Do you have a 13 year old boy and 16 year old girl? Do you have a boy scout troup with you? And kids have specific interests too.

Really, asking people to give info with no input is actually quite rude!

I don't find it rude, but I do find it dense. See, disagreement even about that :-)

I also don't find it rude, just impossible to answer the questions asked without sufficient details.

Which brings to mind a question. Do "travelers" look at guide books any more before posting?

I can't figure out a "great" way to say without sounding harsh but there is no ownership on this board. Everyone is free to ask any question they want.

Not everyone is an insider who goes to GTGs or even wants to. Some people ask questions that take some probing by responders but they usually get better over time. If you spent 15 minutes on another board then you obviously had 15 minutes to give...why feel frustrated just because you don't share the same definition of a word you identify as having no meaning?

I get that nytraveler said "please do not ask" which is nice but if you really feel that way then why not just decline to respond? All this energy towards modifying others behavior where there is no malice intended seems like a clique mentality to me.

Would you think this about your family members and friends who approached you for travel advice in a similar way or asked you this same question? I wouldn't.

And for the record, my intention is not to attack anyone. Rather I'm only saying everyone's different, that's life.

I'm with you parrothead!!! I was going to go back on some of these posts just to see how they asked a few of their first questions on here. I started with nytraveler. After 8500 posts I gave up and that was only 2 years worth. I can't figure out how to go back without constantly hitting previous page button. I agree with you, just don't answer if it bothers you that much.

Sorry -

I see nothing wrong with telling people how to get better answers to their questions. And if all the people who are asaking for more information had it up front - it would make life esier for them - and more productive for the OPs/

And it;s not a clique. It's just a better way to do something.

Parrothead -

in your world you would never explain to someone what they're doing wrong to help them do it better - and things would never improve. You wold just ignore then, and they would miss a lot of useful information.

It seems to me that offering suggestions is better than ignoring ignorance.

Add me to the list (and I think it would be a long list) of people who think suggesting HOW to post is a great idea. Anyone who thinks it makes sense to let people ask questions the wrong way to get GOOD answers must have a problem with something, but I can't imagine what. Why isn't it always a good idea to help new posters by suggesting a better way to get good answers? I've seen some people here scold others because they dared to suggest to a new poster that they'd get better answers on the Europe board instead of the US board when asking about Paris. And others seem to be so overly sensitive that when asked "what price do you consider reasonable?" go off on a tagent about the asker being rude. Sorry, I just don't get it. If people want good responses to their questions, these are points which need to be made.

I have always welcomed suggestions on how to get better responses. And I can tell you now that my very first posts here were asking about Turkey. Although I was asking in the Asia Board, I welcomed responses to repost on the Europe Board. Sure enough -- that's where I got answers -- even though the bulk of our Turkey travel was in Asia.

I can't help but wonder if these complainers about "ownership of the board" are the same people who stand and watch people in amusement waiting for the "walk sign" to change without telling them there's a button to push to make it change? Do they enjoy watching people NOT know how to make something work to their own advantage? Does it upset them if others try to help them? Clearly it must, but I have no idea why.

nytraveler - in your last post you didn't spell 'wold' correctly. There, I did my good deed for the day!

Oh BTW you started a GREAT topic in the wrong forum.

Wrong forum?

monik, what forum would you have suggested? Most new posters, particularly looking for hotel advice don't go to the lounge. So this seems the perfect place to suggest how to ask about hotels (at least for US ones).

definately should have been in the lounge

Why in the lounge? So new posters DEFINITELY would not see it?

What's the purpose of different forums?? Duh, let's dump everything in the same pot.

Let the newbies learn. Nuff said. See ya.

Of course. What on earth was I thinking? Posts about how to post on the US board should not be posted on the US board. Stupid, stupid me!
I hope you can forgive me.

Monik -

Sorry that a type bothers you. Never said I was perfect.

And, no, this doesn't belong in the Lounge. People coming asking for hotel info don't usually go to the lounge.

I guess I could have put it in europe - but was in the US when I thought of it.

And if hotel info doesn't belong here - it doesn't belong anywhere.

I'm not sure why the lounge (which is for non-travel related posts?) would be the right forum for this. I peruse, and post, here often, but I've yet to visit the lounge (well, maybe once, but I really wasn't interested).

Yes, if you ask better questions you will get better answers, but there is no need to give a snarky answer to ANY well-meant question. If it's too broad to give a reasonable answer to, of course it's appropriate to ask the poster to narrow it down, but it's not an excuse to be mean. Yes, some people are not good at asking questions, or not familiar with the customary form, or forget that they have not included some very basic piece of information in the post, but they still deserve your courtesy. What happened to "If you can't say something nice..."?

I have occasionally seen things on these boards that have made me wonder if the posters should really be allowed out by themselves, but at least they did think to ask, and are not wandering around getting themselves into trouble. I think sometimes people use a board like this to start the research process, or the research they have done has not given them good answers (or the answers were valid-but they did not believe them since they fell outside of their normal experience-a lot of NYC advice could easily fall into this category).

Of course there are people who want six impossible things before breakfast (and have no clue that these things are in the realms of fantasy), but many rational people will sometimes not know if a thing is possible or not. Especially with budget considerations.

First, NY'ers unless they are in the travel business or wish to impress their paramours would know less about NYC hotels than a visitor. What I know about NY hotels is from business associates and friends and relatives I do not like well enough to put them up in our home.

Second, 90% of the visitors to NY from this board, want the tourist experience, rather than the NY'er view of NYC. Once again the NY'er view is not needed and a recent visitor has greater insight into expectations and needs.

Third, there is great repetition in the questions and answers. The people who do no or little research, do not even search this board for past topics on the exact same issue.

As my long gone grandfather used to say, "You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead."

To me this seems like a conversation or complaint. It doesn't seem like a trip report or a question about any restaurant, hotel,etc. I didn't think the US Board would be a place to voice a complaint about the way people ask a question. If so, you might as well make this post ov every single board. I didn't know that people could just start making up the rules her on fodors. Yes, I will admit there are better ways to ask a question, but this takes time to learn. I don't think very many people would read this post before they asked for a Great Hotel. I don't really see how this post is going to lower the amount of that type of posting. It just sounded like someone complaining about the way some people begin a conversational post. If I don't like a post, I don't answer it, simple enough. There just isn't any tact to the original post.

spiro, read the OP again. You totally missed the point. You say it "takes time to learn". Well, duh. How can someone learn without someone explaining it? I personally don't see even a hint of rudeness or lack of tact in the OP. It sounds to me like good advice, but then I don't have a chip on my shoulder, maybe some do. As I said, I think some people would be amused watching people struggle rather than help them out. If that's your idea of fun, more power to you, and in that case I see why you'd be offended at anyone offering suggestions to others to make the posts more effective.

But you're right about at least one post here being nothing but a complaint. It's the post right before this one. Nothing but a complaint. No suggestion of how to make it better, just a complaint that it doesn't belong here (and no logical suggestion of where it would belong) and a lot of whining about it -- unlike the OP which clearly was a listing of suggestions for how to improve posts.

In my opinion there's a big difference between offering suggestions of how to post or how to make the forum work for you, and just posting a long "whine" of complaint about another post or poster. The original post here was the former -- your last post was the latter.

You said it!
But I don't think that people who answer questions that are non specific like, "We're going to ____ what should we do?" Have the patience of a saint. I think they just like to put forth their opinions.

The only sensible answer to these questions is another question.

<< The people who do no or little research, do not even search this board for past topics on the exact same issue. aduchamp1 >>


Lsky - my earlier point was that if a poster did some homework first (a couple of searches, read relevant trip reports, etc.), it would be much easier and productive for people to give relevant and succinct answers to their questions. I, personally, don't respond to the very vague questions because I don't have the time to or interest in doing so. Maybe the vast majority of vague posts are by people who aren't familiar with using this board, but sometimes I think some of those totally vague questions are a result of a bit of laziness. I certainly can't prove this, but why not use this thread to familarise everyone with a better way of getting the information they desire? Giving advice on this topic should be no different than passing along any other travel advice.

Has this thread become controversial? I originally felt that it was a common sense observation and I still do.

Not to change the subject but...

I'm going on a trip. I need suggestions what to see, where to stay, and where to eat. Only the best suggestions, please

Centralparkgirl, You're exactly right, people ask those vague questions because they are lazy.
But no one is helping them, really, by answering them because they end up taking someone else's idea of a vacation.

If they did their own research they would find something that uniquely interests them.

There are people who go through life looking only for what other people have pre-approved . What a grand waste of time. I suppose they get the answers and the vacations they deserve.

And then there are the ones who say, “where can I go that is off the beaten path?” What a ridiculous request. Off the beaten path would mean that a person has a unique interest, and I fear, that that person has none.

Neo,
If you read back through this post, I am not the only one that found the OP to be a complaint. Even those that agree with the op, have things to say like "here's another pet peeve". One response to a post I made was "you did not respond to nytraveler's original complaint"

Obviously you and I are reading the OP differently and we could argue this forever. This will be my last post on this subject.

BarryK - head north. Stay in the new boutique hotel that we just love. Tell Freddy, the concierge that you're our friend. Make reservations immediately, but remember that a jacket and tie aren't required. As far as what to see - what are your interests? A little specificity would help.

spirobulldog -

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "tact". There is nothing tactless in the original post. It is simply a straightforward comment, along with suggestions on how people can get better answers to their questions. It does not even refer to any specific person (and without that refrence I don;t see how a comment can be tactless) - but to a type of post.

If giving people suggestions on how to get more/better info when they're floundering is "tactless" - then ever making any suggestion is "tactless".

There is no rude language, no sarcasm, no abuse of any kind.
Just an attempt to point out to people how to obtain more useful answers.

Separately, I'm not aware of any rules that you can never write anythig that someone might find "tactless". Some people are incredibly sensitive- and feel that anyhting they disagree with is tactless or abusive - even if it doesn't refer to them - or anyone.

IMO, great topic.

and to add another one to the list:
when people ask, "where should I go this [input season/holiday here]." without listing any specifics.

Resolved: Don't answer a question that shows a total lack of work or initiative on the part of the OP. Do suggest that they do some reading and come back with more reasonable questions.

Spoon feeding these OPs just perpetuates the problem. ((*))

good point jed. a related problem to what you bring up is when people keep commenting on an post when the OP never comes back.

My main problem with hotel questions is that if someone says "I want a good hotel - my budget is 75 Euros per night" (or whatever number), the hotel you can get will vary hugely by demand, hotel promotions, seasons, etc. Just like airfares, hotel prices are hugely variable depending when and how they are booked and under what terms.

Here is one example:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35168339

Asking for "Great Value". No exact dates, no budget = very little help received.

wow rkkwan. he doesnt even respond to the specific questions you're asking him on that thread.

"Spoon feeding these OPs just perpetuates the problem"

Yeah, but if we don't then we can't complain about them. (@)

I apologise on behalf of all the posters who dare to ask unspecific stupid questions and waste the obviously superior 'fodorites' time untill we have read all the previous posts and all the travel books first.

Who said "superior"? It just makes sense coldplay to have an idea of what you want before letting someone else plan your trip. Maybe these folks just have a lot more time and money to spend then I do so it doesn't matter what they do on vacation.
Maybe they just want to be able to say, "I went there".
That's fine.

nytraveler
thanks for your thoughts, they are very specific and helpful. it is your opinion and i don't see why anyone would object - i am always personally glad to hear feedback. i can take what is useful and what i don't agree with, fine. i would never critise someone for offering helpful advice.

JayZee, seriously, have you read any of the hundreds of helpful posts nytraveler has made -- I'm sure many a traveler to NY has had a better, easier, more productive and generally more pleasant trip because of her. What is wrong with suggesting that people be more specific in their posts?

Author: JayZee
Date: 11/28/2008, 01:10 am

nytraveler - So why do you respond if it is a 'waste of your time - and VERY frustrating'? Just go away...Fodor's does NOT need you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>

Wow, some bitter people here respond that trying to help new posters is unwarranted and an attempt to "own" the board. So some of those same bitter people decide for themselves whom Fodors "does NOT need"? Talk about "ownership!

And why does nytraveler respond if she thinks its a waste of her time? Maybe because she CARES about helping people and CARES about making Fodors work better. (A click on her name will show you how many detailed helpful answers she gives). Now, do you care to tell us why you bothered to respond to this entire thing with your bitter, snarky comments, JayZee?

And do you mind telling us why you think it's "clever" to post NASTY remarks like this several times? Shall we take a vote on the type of poster that Fodors really does NOT need?
>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>
Author: JayZee
Date: 11/28/2008, 01:28 am

Ask nytraverler, she'll get back to you on anything Great.