People who take up more space than what they've paid for
Dec 14th, 2000, 06:53 AM
#21
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Hi:
I also like the idea of adjoining aisle seats. It had gotten to the point that every time I traveled, my companion wanted the window and I ended up with the middle. Sometimes we just split up so that we will both be comfortable.
I wanted to ask xxxxx why you assume the 300+ person was put in first class because of his weight? I have seen people moved because it was their honeymoon, because their best friend is the lead flight attendant,etc. I envied them each time!
I also like the idea of adjoining aisle seats. It had gotten to the point that every time I traveled, my companion wanted the window and I ended up with the middle. Sometimes we just split up so that we will both be comfortable.
I wanted to ask xxxxx why you assume the 300+ person was put in first class because of his weight? I have seen people moved because it was their honeymoon, because their best friend is the lead flight attendant,etc. I envied them each time!
Dec 14th, 2000, 08:24 AM
#23
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Let's get this straight. I have NOT belittled ANYONE or called anyone names. I asked a question; OK, several questions. But I did NOT ask them in a derogatory manner. I am not stupid, immoral, rude, self-centered, or any of the other things I have been called. I DO volunteer work, etc.
Today I carry 5-10 lbs more than I should, but growing up I was always skinny. I quote myself again, "Your logic follows the same logic that says it's permissible to tell someone that they're too skinny, but it's rude to tell the next person that they're too fat." (By the way, there is a BIG difference between someone who is "fat" and someone who is "obese.")
The line of questioning was aimed at opinions about having the person sitting next to you spill over into your seat and space. If they're overweight and can still fit into their seat, it doesn't apply here. If they are so obese they take up half of your seat, that's a problem. If Hulk Hogan (for instance) flew in the seat next to you, cross country, and with his size took up half of your seat as well as your own, wouldn't you be more than a tad miffed? That's my point.
I personally will probably take the advice of several posters. Although I love my husband dearly and enjoy sitting right beside him, on my next flight, I will request an aisle seat across from him.
Today I carry 5-10 lbs more than I should, but growing up I was always skinny. I quote myself again, "Your logic follows the same logic that says it's permissible to tell someone that they're too skinny, but it's rude to tell the next person that they're too fat." (By the way, there is a BIG difference between someone who is "fat" and someone who is "obese.")
The line of questioning was aimed at opinions about having the person sitting next to you spill over into your seat and space. If they're overweight and can still fit into their seat, it doesn't apply here. If they are so obese they take up half of your seat, that's a problem. If Hulk Hogan (for instance) flew in the seat next to you, cross country, and with his size took up half of your seat as well as your own, wouldn't you be more than a tad miffed? That's my point.
I personally will probably take the advice of several posters. Although I love my husband dearly and enjoy sitting right beside him, on my next flight, I will request an aisle seat across from him.
Dec 14th, 2000, 09:05 AM
#24
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XX: Yes, it's hard not to sit right next to your loved one - afterall you love them and want to be near them. But I'm not sure what set off that other person who called you those names. This website seems to bring it out sometimes. These days you do not need to carry a few extra pounds to be uncomfy in an airliner seat. I will offer you another strategy for gaining comfort, but this depends in part on getting an agent a bit slow on the uptake or with some humor. I call the sales agent and plead for the emergency exit row. Eventually he or she passes me along to a supervisor who is authorized to grant my demands. I insist that the doctor says I must have an emergecy exit row for my lower back condition (you must at this point decide on the type of condition you have, and stick to it) - to wit, you will suffer injury if you don't get that row. But oh course, to be sure, in the event of an emergecy, you are ready and able to operate that door - no problem (it's not that type of lower back condition, madam). Your plea begins with great credibility - science has concluded over 90 percent of us in this country have lower back conditions. You must also have great faith that the supervisor does in fact have access to the emergency row, and no one else has it already reserved. And you must have 30 minutes to kill, because it will take that long to wear them down. Good luck, and ciao.
Dec 14th, 2000, 12:31 PM
#26
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I think people with big heads should be banned from airplanes.
To the other Ann--at 5'8 you consider yourself tall? Where are you living, Japan? I'm the same height, and I've always considered myself short. I've never had trouble fitting my legs into an airplane seat. I fear your problem there is also your weight.
My husband, however, has problems on planes, and he's just an average size guy. He's 6'0, and not particularly broad shouldered. Yet, when we're on a domestic flight, he often has to sit at an angle to avoid rubbing shoulders if another average-sized guy is sitting next to him. Airlines suck.
To the other Ann--at 5'8 you consider yourself tall? Where are you living, Japan? I'm the same height, and I've always considered myself short. I've never had trouble fitting my legs into an airplane seat. I fear your problem there is also your weight.
My husband, however, has problems on planes, and he's just an average size guy. He's 6'0, and not particularly broad shouldered. Yet, when we're on a domestic flight, he often has to sit at an angle to avoid rubbing shoulders if another average-sized guy is sitting next to him. Airlines suck.
Dec 14th, 2000, 12:57 PM
#27
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Well, Ann, in my family the women think 5'8" is tall, and they'd suggest you may be thinking like a short person. And it's sort of uncool to put sown an entire country over a height issue. And maybe it's not too cool to suggest to another that it's her weight, not her height that's the issue. And I'm sure your husband would be thrilled to know you intimate to the world he has whimpy shoulders. Also, your idea to ban folks with large heads sounds sort of self-serving. Give it all a rethink, Ann.
Dec 14th, 2000, 01:09 PM
#28
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How can I be putting down Japan by suggesting that Japanese people are short? They are! And how is that a putdown? Being short is not a bad thing. Besides, you're more comfortable on planes! Besides, 5'8 is NOT tall, by any measure, for an American woman.
Also, Frd, have you never heard of sarcasm? I, apparently unsuccessfully, was trying to demonstrate how ridiculous the idea of banning fat people from planes by suggesting that big headed people be banned. Of course, my brother had a big head, and I would prefer that he never get on a plane with me, so maybe I better pursue this idea.
As I am no Kate Moss myself, I do empathize with the other Ann. I'm nearly to the point where I infringe on other's space on a plane, but I have, quite literally, worked my ass off to ensure that I do not get quite that large.
And it has to be her weight. If a person is thin, he/she sits further back in a seat (smaller butt), and so his/her knees do not extend as far. Simple. Being overweight myself, I've tried to kid myself before over similar things, like my shoulders are too broad. Then I was forced to remember that my shoulders weren't too broad when I weighed 130 pounds.
Also, Frd, have you never heard of sarcasm? I, apparently unsuccessfully, was trying to demonstrate how ridiculous the idea of banning fat people from planes by suggesting that big headed people be banned. Of course, my brother had a big head, and I would prefer that he never get on a plane with me, so maybe I better pursue this idea.
As I am no Kate Moss myself, I do empathize with the other Ann. I'm nearly to the point where I infringe on other's space on a plane, but I have, quite literally, worked my ass off to ensure that I do not get quite that large.
And it has to be her weight. If a person is thin, he/she sits further back in a seat (smaller butt), and so his/her knees do not extend as far. Simple. Being overweight myself, I've tried to kid myself before over similar things, like my shoulders are too broad. Then I was forced to remember that my shoulders weren't too broad when I weighed 130 pounds.
Dec 14th, 2000, 01:24 PM
#29
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5'8" Ann. You are TALL. Maybe you travel with basketball players, but the average height of American women is 5'4" and average weight is around 135#. I am 5'2" and that IS short -- yet I still have trouble with leg room on some flights, esp. American's 767s in coach.
Aside from the possibility that you are so self-absorbed that you don't know where you should be placed along continua of size, consider the fact that some people are long-waisted and short-legged, while others may be short-waisted and long-legged. As I said, I'm 5'2", and my husband is 5'11", but we both have a 32" inseam -- which means I have relatively long legs for someone my height, and his height is all between his hips and his shoulders.
Never mind trying to imagine how much we look like Mutt and Jeff when walking together -- instead consider the difference in what we each consider crowded seating. Now think about how variable things like width of shoulders and hips can be, even for those who are "appropriate" weight.
Aside from the possibility that you are so self-absorbed that you don't know where you should be placed along continua of size, consider the fact that some people are long-waisted and short-legged, while others may be short-waisted and long-legged. As I said, I'm 5'2", and my husband is 5'11", but we both have a 32" inseam -- which means I have relatively long legs for someone my height, and his height is all between his hips and his shoulders.
Never mind trying to imagine how much we look like Mutt and Jeff when walking together -- instead consider the difference in what we each consider crowded seating. Now think about how variable things like width of shoulders and hips can be, even for those who are "appropriate" weight.
Dec 15th, 2000, 05:10 AM
#32
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Cindy (and others):
I disagree. The airline is selling you a seat. That is why you can take a young baby and not pay as long as they don't take up a seat. When a large or otherwise inconsiderate person is spilling over into my seat and making me uncomfortable, I think that is extremely rude. This is not weight discrimination, let's not be PC. For whatever reason that a person is obese, they should have common consideration for the people around them just as I do (not obese, just rather tall). If this person is too large to fit into one seat, they shouldn't have the right to take up my seat as well. They should be the ones forced to purchase two seats or a first class ticket, not me. They are the ones that cannot fit into their seat. When I am on a flight and I feel that my legs are cramped, I don't just recline back as far as I can to make myself more comfortable. This is not an issue of size but one of common courtesy. Same goes for the overhead compartments. Take up only the amount of space that you PAID to have. It is also the fault of the airlines. They have made the seats really small, but that doesn't mean that a large person has the right to take up someone else's space. You must understand that they are only responding to the wants and needs of their consumers. How else can flights be so cheap. If you want/need more room then buy a first class ticket. Otherwise please take time to realize that there are others on the same flight and you have no right to inconvenience them.
And X, if it means anything, though much of what you said obviously came out wrong I also think that they came down a little too hard on you.
Let's all remember that this is ony a message board and there is no reason to call people names.
Kristy
I disagree. The airline is selling you a seat. That is why you can take a young baby and not pay as long as they don't take up a seat. When a large or otherwise inconsiderate person is spilling over into my seat and making me uncomfortable, I think that is extremely rude. This is not weight discrimination, let's not be PC. For whatever reason that a person is obese, they should have common consideration for the people around them just as I do (not obese, just rather tall). If this person is too large to fit into one seat, they shouldn't have the right to take up my seat as well. They should be the ones forced to purchase two seats or a first class ticket, not me. They are the ones that cannot fit into their seat. When I am on a flight and I feel that my legs are cramped, I don't just recline back as far as I can to make myself more comfortable. This is not an issue of size but one of common courtesy. Same goes for the overhead compartments. Take up only the amount of space that you PAID to have. It is also the fault of the airlines. They have made the seats really small, but that doesn't mean that a large person has the right to take up someone else's space. You must understand that they are only responding to the wants and needs of their consumers. How else can flights be so cheap. If you want/need more room then buy a first class ticket. Otherwise please take time to realize that there are others on the same flight and you have no right to inconvenience them.
And X, if it means anything, though much of what you said obviously came out wrong I also think that they came down a little too hard on you.
Let's all remember that this is ony a message board and there is no reason to call people names.
Kristy
Dec 15th, 2000, 07:26 AM
#33
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I deliberately asked a provacative question. Here it is again for you to read: "So what's your collective take on people who take up more space than what they've paid for? Whether they be broad shouldered, obese, or simply inconsiderate by putting their junk in your space?" But I was very careful not to say anything ugly about one group in particular.
Now, MY opinion on the subject: When you/we are traveling in a confined space with a group of other people, we need to dig deep and find the manners that we were supposed to learn in Kindergarten. We should do our dead level best not to be annoying to our fellow passengers. And we, as the fellow passengers, should stretch our tolerance considerably. Parents of small children SHOULD come prepared with activities and medicine to keep the child comfortable. But sometimes a word from a fellow passenger to remind a child to mind their parent can be a welcome enforcement. (My children behave MUCH better for other people.) Adults often behave no better than children. Intrusive, rude, loud, know-it-alls, etc. When I started this thread, I also had in mind the traveler who might hog the armrests, letting books, bags, etc. spill into your seat. I forgot about the annoying habit of HUGE bags being shoved into overhead compartments all over the plane.
Personally, the airlines should enforce the size limit on bags. Overhead compartments should be restricted to only the seats in that area. If you can't fit within the confines of your seat, move to first class or buy the seat next to yours. We can be polite AND firm in our behavior.
Now, MY opinion on the subject: When you/we are traveling in a confined space with a group of other people, we need to dig deep and find the manners that we were supposed to learn in Kindergarten. We should do our dead level best not to be annoying to our fellow passengers. And we, as the fellow passengers, should stretch our tolerance considerably. Parents of small children SHOULD come prepared with activities and medicine to keep the child comfortable. But sometimes a word from a fellow passenger to remind a child to mind their parent can be a welcome enforcement. (My children behave MUCH better for other people.) Adults often behave no better than children. Intrusive, rude, loud, know-it-alls, etc. When I started this thread, I also had in mind the traveler who might hog the armrests, letting books, bags, etc. spill into your seat. I forgot about the annoying habit of HUGE bags being shoved into overhead compartments all over the plane.
Personally, the airlines should enforce the size limit on bags. Overhead compartments should be restricted to only the seats in that area. If you can't fit within the confines of your seat, move to first class or buy the seat next to yours. We can be polite AND firm in our behavior.
Dec 15th, 2000, 08:09 AM
#34
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Anyone who's noticed that airline seats are getting narrower needs to hop on the scale. The interior cabin dimensions of the basic Boeing 6-across (i.e. non-widebody) airliner haven't changed since the 707 came out back in the 60s - Boeing did that intentionally to maintain compatability in their equipment. Ditto the 5-across DC-9/MD-80 configuration. Now, I know the aisles aren't getting wider, so until (hope nobody from airline management is reading this) they start putting 7 seats across, the seats will be the same width they've always been. Blame the manufacturers if you want, but much as it pains me to say it the airlines can't take the rap on this one.
Seat pitch (i.e., the leg room thing) is a different matter and I'll join everyone else in complaining long and loud about that.
Seat pitch (i.e., the leg room thing) is a different matter and I'll join everyone else in complaining long and loud about that.
Dec 15th, 2000, 09:46 AM
#35
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Well with 61% of the US population overweight what are you going to do??? I doubt if you will get the fatties to pay for 2 seats, they will scream discrimination. And the airlines will probably not make the seats any wider. IMO, if you can't handle flying maybe you should drive!
