Open ocean discovered in the Artic Circle...
 

By a tour expedition. If you don't believe in global warming you should. According to reports, this will have MAJOR impact on our weather, ie more storms, rising tides etc in the northern hemisphere along with major economic impact in the tropic etc.

How far along did you say you are on that ark project, IBelieve?

Looks like Al Gore was right about global warming.

Look folks, you can make fun of global warming if you want. But it is real, and there are going to be climatic changes. It is not a case of Chicken Little screaming that the sky is falling. No serious scientist ignores the potential effects. So snort if you wish, but it is a fact. I for one think you are xyx to ignore the facts, where xyz is any set of adjectives someone might care to invoke -- none of which is very complimentary.

Perhaps people will really get the message. For reasons not fully understand the earth is on and has been on a warming trend for some years. Some want to blame the human race and this may just typical human ego. However, there may be some truth here. The fact is the sustained trent is warming and it will take a hell of a lot to reverse it -- most likely more that anything the human race can do other than its elimination. I just wish I could live long enough to be on an island surrounding our home on water front property. We are now about 60 feet above San Diego bay. You may believe this or not, that is your right, but I can assure you the mother earth is warming and changing. All of the sound science around the world will support this forecast. The only arguement is if this due to western civilization and, if so, can anything be done to change the trend?

I noted that mister Gores name was mentioned. I can almost assure you that neither Mr. Gore or Mr. Bush in my mind have a clue about what has been going on for years regarding global warming. We are talking about things that are going to happen in the next hundred and maybe thousands of years and nobody is going to win an election based on that. It is absolutely true that we are moving to times of major weather change and more hurricanes in the northern hemisphere which could in some ways destroy the economy of parts of the Carribean. San Juan has not recovered yet from the last one and St. Maarten/Martin is in bad shape. They may see another one tomorrow if it continues to build. What can the human race do? It reminds me of sombody trying to blow out a candle from a block away.

Hey....Al Gore invented the internet so I'm sure he's well versed on mundane topics like global warming. <BR>I just love ol' Al (trivia fact: the secret service have nicknamed him 'Woody' for his charisma ;)

Why is it that so many people seem to be of the opinion that the earth's climate and weather patterns have been static since the dawn of time? <BR>Cyclical changes have occurred with regularity and our understanding of the nature and frequency of these cycles is still somewhat primitive. <BR>Why should anyone assume that the changes we're seeing are due to anything other than natural phenomena?

I agree that most of the changes are most likely natural phenomena and they may be a chance that we help, who knows? If the change are good for us, great, but if they are bad can we stop them? I notice that there is enough fear here so some do not use their address as the case of the original post. No problem with me but it is also interesting. <BR> <BR>I think we should get back to travel. The message is "Look for Changes in Weather in the Tropics" and also in the USA on the near term. Understand the problems of storm damage to small islands.

Well, over here in the UK yesterday they <BR>had SNOW in East Yorkshire ( in the <BR>middle of August ! ).

I believe this old earth is warming up and the EPA and others are putting most of the blame on autos. Have they stopped to realize how much fuel per minute a jet plane burns. This pollution has a head start at 35,000 feet yet they don't blame the airlines.

I think this is a travel topic because these climate changes will affect the weather in the tropics, ie more hurricanes, rising tides will cause major flooding and beach erosion. If you want to bury your head in the sand--fine. But, one mile wide of open ocean at the north pole where it should be ice--scares the heck out of me!

Kathy-Obviously, you are an air-head who lacks the intellect to participate in a serious discussion! Why don't you take your inane comments and go post on a board that caters to people of your mentality?

Gee, Kathy's remark kinda made me chuckle, but I can see how it could be offensive to some over-sensitive christian types. <BR> <BR>Anyway - - global warming is of course a fact, and has been since the Pleistocene glaciation some 20,000 years ago. As someone else pointed out, the earth has gone through numerous heating/cooling cycles in its history and will in all probably continue to do so. What's less clear is whether anthropogenic inputs of so-called greenhouse gasses are contributing to the process. I don't think the alleged hole in the Arctic ice pack is anything more than an anecdotal observation at this point and it contributes nothing to the argument. <BR> <BR>One thing for sure, though. Anyone alive to be reading this has nothing to worry about, nor their kids, nor grandkids, etc. The changes are simply much too slow to worry about. The point is not that we shouldn't be concerned about being good stewards of the earth and leaving it in good shape for posterity, only that there's no need to change those travel plans.

<BR>A very rapid change is exactly what most concerns me. From what I've read, if the Greenland icecaps break apart and send an endless army of icebergs adrift in the gulf stream this would plunge northern Europe into a 'deep freeze' - so to speak. It has happened before and there are signs that it may be starting again, and when is does it could take place within a year's time.

MM, I also don't think Kathy deserved your nasty comment. She was just trying to be a bit funny. Touchy, touchy. Lighten up a bit.

Dear Mr. or Ms. MM; <BR>For those who are at least moderately educated on the subject, my comment was actually steeped in irony. You see, the broader geoclimatological cycles which result in warming and cooling of the earth's surface are measured in phases which span tens of thousands of years. As such, any changes which occur during a 10, 50 or 100 year period of time are either purely random background noise, or must be produced by unnatural (i.e. humanly engineered) stressors of cataclysmic proportion. <BR>No on in the scientific community has been able to demonstrate that humanly generated environmental influences are causally related to the recent temperature trends. Theories abound, speculation is rampant, but as yet any effect is simply too small to measure. Certainly not of cataclysmic proportion. <BR>The irony, then, is that the original poster is implying that catastrophe is nigh and no one seems to be paying attention. Exactly the type of apathy Noah encountered, but of course as the Bible tells things, Noah's fears were justified. And the ark reference, of course, ties into the global warming and flooding fears quite nicely. <BR>Actually, as viewed by the informed reader, it was a simple but pretty witty bit of ironic humor. Sorry you didn't get it. <BR>Kathy Jaeger, PhD

MSNBC story online now says in part that U.N.-BACKED RESEARCHERS recently announced that a hole in the icecaps has developed over the North Pole, marking what could be the first time in 50 million years that the top of the world is not covered by ice. <BR> At the same time, the average thickness of the ice covering the Arctic Ocean has decreased by 42 percent over the past 22 years, according to data from the University of Bergen in Norway.

For what it's worth, in my lifetime in New England (almost 60 years) I've seen no more snow at Thanksgiving, hardly any in December, a ski season only way up north in January and February now, a March that is neither winter nor spring, and--this year--no summer at all after a blazing hot summer last year...something's up.

All right, Kathy. No need to rub your advanced degree in our faces. You made a little quip, it wasn't that great, some folks didn't get it. What do you expect when you are the first to hop onto a controversial thread with no apparent goal other than belittle the original poster? <BR> <BR>Besides, don't all of those people on the Sally Jesse Raphael show also have PhD degrees? I'm soooo impressed.

Dick-The open water at the north pole is not "alleged" it has been documented by a tour expedition, and it shocked everyone! <BR> <BR>And Kathy-I agree with the poster about you flaunting your advanced degree. I worked for a manager with a PHD and he was accused of sexual harrassment of over 5 women. Most PHD's I have worked with (and it is plenty) have zero common sense and are completely full of themselves. Such as yourself. And even if you meant your comment as a joke, it was totally inappropriate! This is not a laughing matter, Kathy! <BR> <BR>NBC news did a story on this a couple of nights ago, and the experts are indeed worried about the finding. Also, Greenland is melting at an alarming rate and photos from NASA showed widespread melting of the polar caps. Don't try to tell me that the pollution, smog etc. that spews into our atmosphere is not causing these changes. The experts all agree that it is having a profound effect on our weather. Also, they just released statistics/study in Ottawa, Canada that said more children than ever are dying of cancer, contracting asthma and having tons of health problems related to low level pollution. Not only are children effected but fertility as well. This should be our wake up call! It scares me and tears my heart out what we are doing to our children. What kind of world will they and future generations inherit since we have so carelessly trashed the planet?

Mom - I was using “alleged” more in the sense of the significance (if any) of the hole in the Arctic ice, not whether it actually exists - I’ll stipulate that one does not need to be a trained scientist to recognize a hole in the ice. However, although I generally discourage relying on non-technical sources for scientific information, I urge you to read the entire article that “???” provided only the scare-mongering headlines from. You will learn there that the scientist the article is actually about “. . . downplayed the reports of the thawed hole, saying that summer temperature increases often create holes in the polar icecaps, though rarely at the North Pole.” I’m sorry that doesn’t fit into your doom and gloom view of the world, but facts, as they say, can be awkward things. As I said in my original post, there is still considerable disagreement in the scientific community regarding the causes (and, perhaps less so, the reality) of global warming. <BR> <BR>I’ll let Kathy defend herself, if she cares to, but I take exception to your generalizations about PhDs. I never earned a PhD, though I’ve supervised, worked with, and worked for many of them in a long career as an environmental scientist. I count many among my closest friends. Fact is, they’re people like the rest of us - not better or worse, probably somewhat brighter than average, but otherwise pretty normal. What’s important is, whether we like it or not, they unquestionably know more about their area of specialization than the rest of us. Belittling them doesn’t change that and spouting ancecdotal evidence that flies in the face of current scientific thought doesn’t make a lay person an expert or advance a discussion that should be conducted with facts and data rather than opinions. <BR> <BR>I’m not an expert in climatology, but your post also touched on a few areas that I am expert in, so let me address those briefly. I regularly read a variety of technical journals, but have not seen the Canadian study you cite (if you have the reference I’d like to review it). I sincerely doubt, however, that it supports your sweeping claims of current and pending environmental disaster. I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but here in the US we have made great strides in the last 30 years in controlling new sources of environmental pollution and cleaning up the legacy of our past practices. There are remaining problems to be sure, but children are not falling dead wholesale in the streets from "pollution" and there is certainly no decrease in fertility (much to the disappointment of some, I might add). Do not believe everything you see and hear in the popular press - virtually all of it is over-hyped, much is simply wrong. There is a great deal yet to be done, but the future (and the present, for that matter) is brighter than you think. <BR> <BR>I suppose now it's getting to be about time for one of the self-appointed Guardians of Purity to weigh in and admonish us for not discussing travel and only travel!

Don't worry, Dick. This will be the first thread where the "What does this have to do with travel" folks actually keep their mouths shut. Why? They are worried that this global warming business could really be a bummer for the ski season. <BR> <BR>By the way, careful when you suggest PhDs are smarter than most people. I don't have a PhD, but I have other degrees and I'm plenty smart. Science isn't the only profession in which one finds smart people. But I know you meant well, so no offense taken. Those daytime talk show PhDs are sure giving you guys a bad name, though. Maybe I'll fill out an application and get a PhD myself. :)

By the way, why in the world would global warming cause thawed ice in the center of the polar ice cap? When I put a cube of ice in my drink, it gets smaller -- it doesn't get a whole in the middle. Why didn't the whole polar ice cap simply get smaller? Maybe I'm not so smart after all. :)

Excellent point there, Frozen. Wish I'd thought of it myself. I think I'm going to pick up a fresh bottle of Scotch on the way home and conduct a little research to confirm your observations. Probably need to run a few replicates. 8^) <BR> <BR>Not to beat the PhD thing to death, but I really only said (and really only believe) that they're "probably somewhat smarter than average." Even at that there are days when I wonder . . . <BR> <BR>You bet there are lots of smart non-PhDs (I like to think I'm one, too) and lots of dumber-than-posts PhDs, especially in the "softer" fields that spawn the psychobabblers. And for sure science hasn't cornered the market on smart people, though I do think that scientists at least know more about science than most folks.

Dick-The study Mom was referring to was by the Canadian Institute of Child Health conducted by a Dr. Granham Chance. It is billed as the most comprehensive exam on the health of Canadian children to date. It was in the paper this morning and published in "The Toronto Globe and Mail." <BR> <BR>Totally unrelated, but have you ever hear Whitley Streiber, (I believe that is the spelling of his name) on the radio. He wrote a book about encounters with aliens and now he has his own syndicated radio show. I heard it Sunday night driving home. Weird stuff! He claims jets are leaving vapor trails that are killing people in Australia and has jumped on this global warming bandwagon. He scares me more than global warming! <BR> <BR>

Thanks, Chuck. I was able to find a description of the study on-line (www.cich.ca/resource.htm) and also the press release from CICH summarizing the findings - not easily done as the report is some 350 pages. It covers much more than environmental issues and really doesn't appear to focus particularly on environmental impacts. <BR> <BR>One section of the press release references a Canadian physicians group noting that children are born with residues of environmental contaminants already in their bodies, which is certainly true, and that this is a tragedy, which is probably also true. They also apparently claim that the health of the environment is the most important determinant of the health of children, which I think is debatable, though I suppose long-term they may well be correct.

Whitley Streiber? You mean the Whitley Streiber who claims that aliens have visited the Earth and interacted with human beings and crammed things up our noses? Streiber started writing in the 80s about the literally dozens of "encounters" he's had with big-eyed alien creatures that (he freely admits) might be hallucinations, delusions, dimensional travelers, time travelers--or, heck, maybe space aliens. Streiber claims that enormous creatures 200 miles long and shaped like obelisks live in the upper atmosphere. <BR>

Guy-Yes that Whitley Streiber. I can not <BR>believe they gave him his own radio show! He was on after 10 on Sunday night and he is syndicated! I was floored by some of the things he was saying such as vapor trails from jets are deliberately killing the elderly esp. in Australia, England and other countries, aliens living among us and things. And he has so called ex military experts on that back him up.