Magnum,

It therefore seems as if the reason you don't like public transportation per your statements in this and your Boston thread is not because of safety or uncomfortable conditions, but rather because you don't understand how it works and don't want to make a mistake. NYers are very helpful if you bother to ask them. Any bus you get on has a driver at the front door or other riders who will have no problem answering the question "Does this bus go to Battery Park?" The same is true of subways.

You propose a very brave and adventurous trip, a very quick overnight to NYC with a big checklist of sighs to see. Time to confront your fears--the public transport system will get you from place to place so much more quickly and cheaply than most other modes of transport in the city. It might be very useful to you for parts of your plans.

The MTA offers good bus and subway maps that should be available at most tourist info booths and some subway booths as well as the Transit Museum outpost in Grand Central Terminal.

To answer your specific question, A regular bus stops every 2-3 blocks at a designated stop. Any bus might run a longer or shorter route depending on the time of day. A bus might be designated "LIMITED" which means it makes limited stops along the route, every 8 to 10 blocks. On the front of the bus there is a big horizontal display above the front window. It flashes the bus route, the final destination, and if the route is limited. If you're unsure, ask the bus driver or another rider before you get on.

Most bus stops have a pole with a sign that indicates which bus routes stop there. Some poles even have a map of the route and schedule attached. Get on the bus at the front and use a MetroCard or coins to pay--the driver does not handle money. If you use coins, be sure to get a paper transfer from the driver. Move away from the front door and find a seat or place to stand. Press the yellow tape to request a stop. When you get off, unless you are disabled and need the front steps which can be lowered, move to the back door. Once the bus stops and the green light is lit, push on the door's yellow tape to exit. The back door doesn't open on its own.

Here's s link to the official subway map:
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/submap.htm

Here's a link to the official Manhattan bus map:
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/manbus.pdf

Subways will get you places more quickly than a bus, but of course there's no view.

Appreciate all of the insight. I know this is tough for anybody who lives with public transportation to understand-- how somebody like us can exist. Believe me, I have looked at that Subway system map several times and all it looks like is a notty-noodle mess.

I just wish they had a page for each line, that would make it so much more easy.

Anway, I appreciate the help. I guess we'll be able to figure out some things. Don't kid yourself, I will be asking. The only thing that makes me a little leery of doing something like that is somebody pointing me out as a tourist and targeting me. I know you guys say most of the city is safe, but you never know.

We're going to be spending a full day and almost another day in the city before we have to scoot out of the city. I am hoping to see most of the things on a lengthy list, and we will have to conquer the subway/bus system one way or another.

I have sent in for maps from AAA. Has anybody ever gotten anything like that from them? I am a member and have gotten maps for other places. Just wondering if they are worth the wait. I also purchased a The New York Map Guride, The Essential Guide to Manahattan few weeks ago from Barnes & Noble. It seems to be a great small book for walking. But the subway map is kind of small and, although not hard to read, hard for me to understand, not having lived with public transportation.

Thanks again. Anything else you think would be helpful for me to know, by all means, post it. I will be checking.

magnumholmes:

My son and his wife live in Murray Hill and we visit often. I have yet to meet an unfriendly person in the city. Don't be shy, ask for help.

You have received some excellent help on this thread. Take normal safety precautions. Don't worry about it being obvious you are a tourist. If at any time you get confused or become tired just flag down a cab. They are everywhere.

Enjoy NYC - love it.

Sandy

I'm not telling to be judgmental but you can usually tell the people that will help you. You won't be the only tourist around either. I am never worried about going to a new city as most people will help. They want you to enjoy their city.

Magnum,

Stay with us--we're not trying to send you into a bad or difficult situation. . .

Next lesson. . .

To explain the noodles: Most bus or subway routes you might use follow a very regular pattern, much more regular than in Paris or almost any other city that is more than 100 years old.

NYC's street pattern is on a grid in most of the areas you will visit, which simplifies things tremendously. Avenues run north/south and streets run east/west. Subway lines and most bus routes run on the avenues. Subway lines and "limited" buses both stop at the same major cross streets. (Crosstown buses on on these same major cross streets.) If you look at your noodle mess of a map, you will see that all the subways stop at 14th St, 23rd St, 34th St, 42nd St, . . . so usually all you need to know is if you should take a train to the east side or the west side. You need the noodle mess to check if a train heads diagonally or connects to another train that would be better for your starting point or destination.

Find your starting point on the map. Look for the closest subway line. Follow the line with your finger and see if it runs close to your destination. OR find your destination on the map and follow a subway backward to your starting point.

You have chosen to visit NYC, so we already know you a brave and ready for an adventure. And if I were to consider every person who asked me for directions on the street each day an subject for crime, there's be too many to count. There are plenty of old, disabled, blind, and ailing people who walk the streets of NY every day and would be a much easier target than you, and they are pretty much left alone--or helped across the street.

My 16-year-old niece and her friend visited me, traveling by train and subway from the suburbs on their own. I gave her careful directions--which subway line, which stop, to ask someone if she's unsure which way to walk when coming out of the subway, walking directions to my place. She arrived at my place beaming, and exclaimed, "It all went perfectly! It just took us a minute to decide which person to ask which way was 2nd Ave."

People will help you. You will never be lost--you'll be on an island surrounded by water! Perhaps a few blocks out of your way, but never lost.

If you download the subway map and then zoom in on the section that you want - rather than look at the whole - map (since you will be using trains on only a small part of Manhattan) you will see how easy it is. (really you will use only about 20% of the map.)

Each station is a dot and shows the number or letter of the train that stops there. Just trace the letters or numbers. Easy as pie.

And, if you get confused - just ask and someone will put you right.

New York is certainly a walking city (and on Sunday after brunch we often walk several miles) but from midtown to South ferry (when your time is very limited) walking is simply madness.

I totally agree that the NYC Transit maps are very confusing and that getting about by subway and bus can be difficult.

It is really best to ask for help when you need it, or even just to double check your route.

Bus stop signs are not that easy to find. When transferring, for example, you can look up the cross street and then down and not see signs hidden by trees and other obstructions. Then, you have to make sure the bus # you have in mind stops at that stop. Often, there are three bus stop signs within a block, each for different route numbers. Usually the route and times are posted. But, we've waited over half an hour for a bus that's supposed to come by every 8 minutes. And, it's often difficult, even impossible, on a crowded bus to move to the rear door in time to get off. And, if you have to stand, it's difficult to see the street signs so you can figure out when to get off. However, the bus drivers are very friendly. Even the ones who aren't overly friendly will help you. Just verify (before you pay/validate your metrocard) that the bus will take you where you're going, and tell the driver where you want to get off. They will let you know when they get to your stop. And, when getting on, do not let yourself be rushed by others behind you in a hurry.

I still prefer the buses over the subway. The subway is full of hallways and stairways and it's often a very long walk from the entrance to the track and vice versa. And, if you take the "wrong" exit, you could end up walking many blocks out of your way to get where you're going. I find the subway map very confusing. Many times I've thought a line stops where it does not, and I still cannot tell the difference between a local and an express. But, again, people are helpful - just ask.

Now, a two day hop on/hop off tour will save a lot of getting around headaches. But, the routes travel in only one direction, and if you wander off, it can be a hike back to that stop or another one.

If you mean the New York City Mapguide by Michael Middleditch - it is excellent and one I always have along. Keep in mind that it was published in 2001, so much has changed. The maps are excellent for not getting lost and reorienting yourself because of all the landmarks, but the names of many hotels have changed.

The maps on the NYC transit website are excellent. As someone mentioned, zoom in. Once you've defined the most useful area, click on Print, then CURRENT VIEW. You can pick up a foldup of the same maps at nearly any subway station once you arrive.

You indicate that you aren't afraid to walk so unless the weather if really bad I'd do the following walk. Even if it takes you 2 hours to get to your hotel, drop off your bags and get some breakfast, it will still only be 7am and nothing will be open yet so a nice walk would be perfect.

From your hotel go over to 5th Ave - you'll be right near the ESB - you could just walk through the lobby - it's gorgeous.

Walk down 5th to Madison Square Park (1/2 mile) - Flat Iron Building, NY LIfe and Met Life buildings.

Walk down Broadway to Union Square - another 1/2 mile - NY's largest fruit and veggie market, not sure which weekdays it's open in March though.

Continue down Broadway to Waverly Place (another 1/2 mile)- passing Grace Church and the Strand Bookstore.

At Waverly turn right to Washington Square Park (another 1/2 mile)- you'll walk through NYU. At this point I'd do a detour to walk around Greenwich Village a bit, (you need to go east of the park) but you'll get a sense of the village even if you just continure south.

From Washington Square Park to Houston St is another 1/2 mile. Once you cross Houston you are in Soho.

Continue down Broadway (or one of the parallel streets) another 1/2 mile and you'll be in Chinatown.

Continue down Broadway another 1/2 mile will bring you to City Hall Park. From here you can see City Hall, the Woolworth Building, St Pauls, etc. Just behind St Pauls is the World Trade Center site. A slight detour from here takes you to the Brookly Bridge which you could walk across (or halfway, then back - it's longer than it looks). Still another short detour would bring you to south street seaport (big ships, shopping mall).

Keep going down Broadway another 1/2 mile, passing Trinity Church (a one block detour to Wall Street/Stock Exchange Building) to Battery Park where you can get the Staten Island Ferry.

This walk, with just the minimal detours is about 4 miles and would probably take most people the morning. If you added in the detours it would take more of the day but you'd see pretty much the highlights from midtown south.

Then I'd do the Staten Island Ferry - I just can't see why you'd want to spend so much of your valuable time to go to the Statue of LIbery when you can see it just as well from the ferry. I was born and raised in NY and go there often and I've been to the Statue exactly once (I think it was 3rd grade) and I know many New Yorkers who have never been. It's a symbol of the city and the country, but you don't have to touch it to appreciate it. All those immigrants never touched it, they just sailed by it like you would on the ferry.

After the ferry I'd take subway, bus or taxi back up to your hotel. If you have time/daylight left I'd do a midtown walk - from your hotel to Grand Central Terminal over to 5th Ave (NY Public Library - awesome ceiling in the reading room) over to Times Square up to 50th to Rockefeller Center/St Pats. Then I'd do the Top of the Rock (better lines, better views than the ESB because the view includes the ESB).

If the first day was spent all in the south of midtown area, then I'd do the midtown walk the second day. If you got all that done the first day (bring good walking shoes) then you could do Central Park and the upper east or west sides the second day.

Wow, that's certainly a plan we will take into consideration. Thanks a bunch for all of the helpful hints and itenerary ideas.

I will be looking at the subway map with more interest, trying to map out our course so it will cut down on so much walking. Even the heartiest of walkers gets tired.

Anybody know-- is the Brooklyn Bridge longer or shorter than the Golden Gate Bridge? We waled across the Golden Gate Bridge and back in November. It was awesome. Of course, Alcatraz, and its audio tour, stole the show for us. It was simply amazing.

Thanks again, and I will be looking at the Subway map closer.

Hi Magnum. I just googled and came up with:

Golden Gate Bridge total span is 8981 ft (1.7 miles).

Brooklyn Bridge is 6016 ft.

I can't convert it to miles as I'm an Aussie and we don't deal in the old measures, but basically the Brooklyn Bridge is 2/3 the length of the Golden Gate, so you should be fine with it. (I'm going to try it in August!)

Wow. Aren't statistic surprising? I've done both and would have guessed that the Golden Gate Bridge is at least twice as long as the Brooklyn Bridge, and could have easily been convinced it was three times as long! I wonder if the statistics include the full approaches to both bridges -- there is a considerable lead on and off to the Brooklyn Bridge, maybe that's where a lot of that length is coming from.

Bookmarking

New York Party Shuttle does a 6 hour bus tour that takes you to all the "must-sees" in NYC. They stop and the guide gets off with you to do mini walking tours or just photo stops. Then they walk you on to the Staten Island Ferry and you cross each way just for the free views of the Statue.
Whether it's worthwhile depends on your guide. Ours was excellent, young and very fun for my teens.