NYC/ June looking for ideas
 

I'm going with 5 other women to New York for a long weekend in early June. Arriving Thursday and leaving Sunday evening. We are staying at the Marriott Marquis selected for price and location as all five have never been to New York. They are looking to me to be a tour guide since I have been going there for business and pleasure most of my life.

I'm trying to give them a quick flavor for New York. Ages are 30 to well....., me (I won't tell). I don't want us booked to oblivion. We are all interior designers so our focus is shopping, shopping and theatre.

Here's the plan (sort of)
Thursday: dinner at a semi-divey place : I thought PJ Clarkes....it's history and social significance (!!!). and drinks at Pen Top (which I hate but think they will love). Walk down to Rockefeller Center and back to the hotel

Friday: shopping Madison Avenue, upper East side. Lunch: I'm not sure where: Nosidam? (see those ladies who lunch)

Pre theatre Dinner: Becco? as we have great tickets for The Producers (alas without Lane and Broderick). Something interesting after?

I'm not pushing my foodie stuff on these girls so I am trying to pick reasonable restaurants that have some character. Don't send me to chowhound.

Saturday is planned for Soho, Greenwich Village, etc. Outdoor markets, shopping, etc. Dinner at Balthazar. Looking for some trendy spots for after. I have always loved lunch at Provence but think it might be pricey with Balthazar the same day and tooooo Frenchy.

Sunday morning we will go to the Met and Central Park. Brunch at the Boat House or (I can't believe I'm saying this) Tavern on the Green? Visuals are important to my friends and the Crystal Room is a gaudy magical space.

Looking forward to some great ideas. Food, places, bars etc. Thanks.

LMF

topping in case someone has any comments to make. TIA LMF

On arrival day, if this is their first trip to NYC, how about a Circle Line "Harbor Lights" cruise, then dinner, then drinks, then walk past Rockefeller Center back to hotel? You can catch the bus on 42nd Street over to the Circle Line pier, then another back to the 50's.

Please explain re: Pen Top (on our list of places to go).

Hi, LMF. Sounds like too much fun.
On that Soho day, could you swing by to Katz's Deli for lunch -- the exact opposite of Balthazar? How could they not want to have "what she's having" ala When Harry Met Sally?

Is the Pen Top, the bar at the top of The Peninsula? Just guessing. Yea, they'd love that, as they would revoving atop the Marquis, which I'm sure you'll manage at least once since you're staying there.

Either Becco or Joe Allen sounds about right for before theatre (although Joe Allen's is much better after in my opinion). If you have time, do stop in for a drink at the bar at Sardi's almost right next door to The Producer's. The bartender upstairs will treat you ladies like royalty. Or if you've done a big, late lunch that day, why not have cocktails and a few nibbles at the Sardi's bar, then go to Joe Allen's afterwards? Or Angus McIndoe's right next door to The Producers where generally there are a number of celebs after theatre?

Offbeat idea for lunch when shopping --how about Tao, like an overdone PFChangs with a giant buddha in a dramatic space? They are still doing their $20.04 fixed price three course lunch if you don't want to get a bunch of dishes to share. A dramatic, but budget conscious place. 58th between Madison and Park.

I too sort of gasped when you mention Tavern of the Green, but I bet they'd think it's the best of all. It just seems a shame to spend the most money of all (well except maybe for Balthazar) on a meal there. Or how about another whole direction? Gospel brunch at BB King's on 42nd? Or one of the places that do that up in Harlem, sorry I don't have specific suggestions for those?

Pen Top is the rooftop bar at the Peninsula (55th & Fifth) which has a great view up and downtown on Fifth Avenue. I've stayed at the Peninsula in the past and found the crowd at PenTop interesting but not particularly appealing to me(trendoids, "working" girls, men on expense accounts )but its perspective is unique in Manhattan.

I actually mentioned the Circle Line thing to my friends but no one was interested. I've done the cruise twice and it is not that memorable to me but I would have set it up if they wanted. The lights and skyline were more interesting to me by helicopter. That was the most interesting view I've had of the city. LMF

Thanks Patrick! I knew you'd have some great ideas as you go more often than I. Katz's Deli sounds like a great idea and I would love to go to Tao. That sounds much better to me than the shopping ladies lunch at Nosidam.

Balthazar is a fave of mine, as much for the sociology of the scene as for the incredible pommes frites and seafood extravaganza.

Have you or anyone been to PJ Clarkes since it reopened. I haven't been for years but I remember those dry ice urinals and the crowd was always interesting and animated.

Re: PenTop...here is a link to my comments last August regarding Pen Top and that is why we are going. Just another aspect of NYC.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34438570

LMF

I was thinking maybe you'd check out what's at the Cooper Hewitt museum, since you are all interior designers.

mp, as an interior designer myself, I have to say that the Cooper Hewitt was a big disappointment. They had a fairly interesting special exhibit, but there is generally no access to the permanent collections -- what I was more interested in seeing, but couldn't.

Besides, that sounds too much like work for this group on a five day fun spree.

Yeah - it's true -, it all depends on the whatever the major exhibit is . . . and it does sound as if they all want to play - maybe a morning at ABC Carpet and Home and lunch at Gramercy Tavern?

I've actually had research for the Cooper Hewitt museum displayed and catalogued. Boring...in the sunset of my career I prefer to look forward, not back and my fellow workers are looking for fun and amusement, with a little edification. Thanks for the reminder, I had forgotten my work there. LMF

ABC Carpet and Home is on our list for Saturday. I like the restaurant in the store actually but think Katz's is a perfect suggestion. LMF

Okay, don't eat anywhere up around Times Square. Trust me. Come down to the West Village and eat at either Paris Commune or Le Zoo. Entre is about $15ish but all wonderful and real NYC restaurants. You should book a pedicure at Bliss Spa in Soho and then go shopping down there...and more food...eat lunch at Bistro Margot...

So basically, I say if you love shopping you should hit Soho (but not on a Saturday).

I'll never be able to understand how some New Yorkers think restaurants like Judson Grill, Cite, Remi, Le Bernardin, and others are all horrible restaurants. Yet they must, since so many claim there are no good restaurants near Times Square. It's a mystery to me. I wonder if they've ever tried any of these places or if they've just been raised with the myth that there are no good restaurants near Times Square.

I would definitely choose the Boat House over Tavern on the Green. Also consider Café des Artistes for brunch, no views but charming restaurant and good food.

Café des Artistes
1 West 67th Street
212- 877-3500
cafedes.com

At the Met, don't overlook their great permanent collections like American Decorative Arts and the Antonio Ratti Textile Centre

Two little museums that might interest decorators:

American Craft Museum
40 W 53rd St.
New York City, NY 10019
(212) 956-3535
Website at americancraftmuseum.org

American Folk Art Museum
Two Lincoln Square
Columbus Ave btwn 65 and 66 St
Tues-Sun, 11:30am-7:30pm
Closed Mondays
Website at www.folkartmuseum.org

The Frick and the Whitney may also interest them.

Finally, you could look into finding designer showcase homes that may be open for viewing during your trip. June is a big month for these in many places, usually done as fund raisers. I checked the website for the NY Junior League but could not find anything, you might check through any interior designer association one of you belongs to or post a question here. (The Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation has a house tour in June that looks really interesting, they or others may have similar offerings for June.)

Patrick, two comments to your post about Times Square.

First, in general New Yorkers despise the Times Square area. For obvious reasons but also because when visitors complain that NYC is &quot;dirty&quot; or &quot;crowded&quot; or &quot;loud,&quot; they're invariably talking about that area. Yes, Times Square is a fun &amp; unique place to visit, <i>for about two minutes</i>.

Second, in my experience, New Yorkers like to support &quot;new&quot; restaurants that aren't dominated by tourists, expense accounts and &quot;special occasion&quot; diners.

(Personally, I always attempt to try out a new restaurant before it's been reviewed, at which point the whole world knows about it and reservations become an exercise in anger management.)

Gekko, I totally understand and even agree with everything you said. My only point is I don't know how any person who knows good restaurants and outstanding food and service can say with a straight face that there are NO good restaurants in the Times Square area. That is just plain an untrue statement as anyone with an open mind would have to admit. To say that Le Bernardin (for just one example) is a lousy restaurant is just plain idiotic. You may not like it, it may be out of your area of comfort, it may be too expensive for everyday eating, and it isn't for everyone. But no one in their right mind could call it a lousy restaurant! That is my only point. It just irritates me when people say as if they are experts on the matter that ALL restaurants in the Times Square area are terrible. It's right up there with saying &quot;All New York taxi drivers are rude&quot;, or &quot;New York is a totally unsafe place to go&quot;, two other unfair myths.

Thanks for the reminder about Cafe des Artistes. I've probably eaten there a dozen times over the years and love George Langs homage to the Fin de Siecle. (how's that for a designer/foodie). My girls are probably more the Tao types. The Frick is my favorite museum but a first time tourist has to see the Met. Same with TotG, etc.

I used to come to NYC for Kips Bay every year...last two have been a bore. Will check out the showhouses but we are shopping and having fun. Thanks for all the input. Keep it coming. I'll make a report when we are done. LMF

Patrick, of course you're right . . . but I must say one thing.

If one adds <i>location</i> to the list of critical restaurant criteria (in addition to cuisine, service, atmosphere, etc.), and I would argue that many New Yorkers believe location is extremely important, then you could see how a restaurant might fall to the &quot;lousy&quot; category despite fine marks for food/service/etc.

It may sound crazy, but many New Yorkers, myself included, often pick a <i>location</i> first, then a restaurant. Here's how it goes:

&quot;Hey, let's eat on Clinton Street tonight, somewhere in the Lower East Side.&quot;

&quot;I was thinking West Village, maybe Cornelia Street.&quot;

&quot;Meatpacking? Batali's new gastropub?&quot;

&quot;Perfect. Which subway gets us there??&quot;

But Gekko - Batali's new gastropub is in the West Village!

West 11th Street at Greenwich? I guess you're right -- maybe the name, The Spotted Pig, had me thinking Meatpacking. And the atmosphere sure had me thinking the same way.

<i>Saturday is planned for Soho, Greenwich Village, etc. Outdoor markets, shopping, etc. Dinner at Balthazar. Looking for some trendy spots for after</i>

After dinner, I'd suggest going for drinks at the Soho Grand hotel, on West Broadway, half a block from Canal St. Being that you're all interior designers, I'm sure that you'll enjoy it. The staircase alone should make the trip worth it...

Thanks for Soho Grand reminder.

Topping for more ideas. Thanks.
LilMsFoodie

For Saturday after Balthazar - maybe the lounge at Suba on Ludlow Street? - and/or a cruise of the &quot;new&quot; Lower East Side - hit some of the totallytrendy bars like Schillers around Clinton Street?

Gee, Gekko, you just don't get it do you? Your comments about location make perfect sense for New Yorkers living in other parts of the city. But you seem to miss the major point here. This is a thread about someone staying IN TIMES SQUARE at the Marquis, and someone says the restaurants there are all lousy. Don't you think that the idea of it being a lousy location should go out the window when someone is already staying right there? Doesn't that even make a little sense to you? My original comment is aimed at New Yorkers telling people staying in the theatre district that there are NO good restaurants there. I maintain they are horribly wrong! I rest my case, but I know you'll never be able to understand such a simple little fact.

LilMsFoodie can you provide information on Kips Bay showhouses? I tried accessing a website about it, but my computer keeps 'locking'. Thanks!

Margie: http://www.kipsbay.org

Showhouse dates have been moved to start May 4-31st. Still going to miss it. It hasn't been the trend moving event it used to be as design has changed with the 24/7 HGTV, etc shows. Most of those interior design shows are appalling IMNSHO but they have had impact.

MP thanks for the bar suggestions for Saturday. Having some places in mind beats cabbing it aimlessly downtown. LMF

Suba has a website, too - www.subanyc.com

I've heard you make this argument before, Patrick, and, of course, no one means JUdson Grill or Le Bernadin (or even Remi) when they are talking about how there are &quot;no good restaurants around Times Square.&quot; That's because tourists rarely just happen into those restaurants. They are somewhat out of the way of most tourists's paths in Times Square (in fact, I don't think most NYers would consider Le Bernadin in &quot;Times Square&quot;) and they typically require advance reservations.

When NYers suggest that tourists get away from Times Square for good dining they are attempting to discourage them from simply walking around the area, looking at the menus at places like those Carnegie Deli ripoffs, Lindy's, Olive Garden, etc. and happening in there for overpriced, mediocre food because that is what they see.

Yes, there are a few good restaurants in and around Times Square and they get recommended here frequently, but there is a lot of chaff to separate from the wheat for those who aren't &quot;in the know&quot; as you obviously are. Can we finally put this issue to bed?

Well, sure. I agree with every word you say, (just as I agree with everything Gekko says), except the assumption that I am somehow totally different from a lot of other tourits. There are many tourists &quot;in the know&quot;. But I cannot ignore the horribly wrong statement that there are NO good restaurants in Times Square. Of course there are hundreds of lousy ones (but let's face it, there are some lousy ones in all parts of the city too).
My comments were never been to be so wrongly misinterpreted as &quot;the best restaurant area in New York is Times Square&quot;. God forbid. It is just that I can't sit idly by and ignore people who so wrongly tell a bunch of strangers that it is impossible to get a good meal in the Theatre District. That is simply totally wrong.
Now do we agree? I'm willing to put the issue to rest, but I assure you that I will speak up again when someone posts next time that ALL the restaurants in the Theatre District are HORRIBLE, just as I will speak up when someone says that all the people of Paris are rude, or that all the beaches of Florida are shark-infested, or any of the other typical myths.

Sidestepping the TS debate...Margie, here's the info for this year's showhouse copied from a website

603 Park Avenue, NYC,(at 64th Street)
(718) 893-8600 ext. 245
Open Mon-Sat. 11AM to 5PM, Sundays noon to 5PM
Admission $25, no infants or children under 6
May 4 - 31, 2004

LilMsFoodie, a few more thoughts for you. I haven't been to Pj Clark's in ages but don't think it has the interesting crowd it once did. If you do go there, you must take them for a drink at the Four Seasons rest. before or after. An alternative dinner place is Trattoria Dell 'Arte-a bit closer to the hotel. Not a dive but fun, possible celeb spotting &amp; can be cheap with antipasti &amp; pizza.

My biggest comment is if you guys are serious shoppers, unless you're trust fund babies, forget Madison Ave &amp; the upper east side. Yes, a stop at Barneys is probably in order but then...head to the discount places like Daffys, Century 21 etc. or Lexington Ave. in the 60's,70's could be fun. Do you know the William Wayne store?
http://william-wayne.com/

On Fri., what about a late tea somewhere (Kings Carriage House or Cafe Sabarsky in the Neue museum if you're uptown, the Pierre if you're midtown) &amp; then have dinner <i>after</i> the show like most NYers would.

Sat morning the Union Square market might be fun for them to see. What about the flea market on 6th in the 20s'?

McLaurie, you've caught my attention with the mention of a drink at Four Seasons restaurant. I've never been there, and since we're trying to budget this trip on our way to Europe, won't be splurging for dinner there again (or even lunch, which seems to be just about as expensive.) But I wasn't aware that there was a regular bar there where one could pop in for cocktails. In fact, I thought I was once told there wasn't, just a small waiting area for those waiting for dinner. Am I wrong? Tell me I am, so that we can stop by for a cocktail one evening.

Well it's been a while since I was there Patrick, but can't imagine it's changed. Yes, you're wrong, there's a big bar! Big after work hangout.

Two off-the-beaten path ideas:

1) Take a tour of the Lower East Side Tenement Museum. I am a born and bred new yorker and I was blown away by this museum which shows how new yorkers used to live. I took my future in-laws on their visit -- it really has something for everyone! This is their web site: http://www.tenement.org/

2) It sounds like you have food ideas to last you until 2005, HOWEVER, it is fun to have tea -- the Inn at Irving (the Grammercy Park area) does a very nice and actually affordable tea which is fun, a nice way to relax, and something you can't just do anywhere.
This is their web site: http://www.innatirving.com/lady.htm

Have a wonderful trip!

Thanks for the Kips Bay info, and don't get me started on those &quot;do-you-have-a-glue-gun? then-you-can-decorate-your house&quot; television shows and the actor turned 'decorator'!

On your downtown day - Saturday - have you thought about NoLita? Soho is great, but includes many outposts of uptown &amp; national/international stores; NoLita is a charming neighborhood of truly original boutiques. It has a European feel, it's a joy to walk around in.

Where to go - Mulberry, Elizabeth, Mott Streets, below Houston - most of the good shops are in the first two blocks : Houston - Prince, Prince-Spring. As you are all design-minded etc. - I hope you don't miss this.

Combineable with Soho - or Chinatown.