Mary

We used to take all the kids (4) and go to San Diego every summer. Stayed at the Del Coronado, shopped, ate out and pumped up the city coffers in general. Also did Beverly Hills and San Francisco a number of times. When California went no smoking we simply quit going there. Just got back from a wonderful trip to Seattle where we're still welcome customers.

x

As a Californian we're immensely happy to not host Mary and her smoke any more. No big loss Mary. Tourism is still king here. Besides Seattle is great for reasons other than it allows smokers to spoil the air for everyone else.

wahoo

Imagine planning your vacation around where you can smoke. Now there's someone who has their priorities straight!

zzz

If smokers choose not to patronize a bar because they can't smoke, its just that, a choice. Nothing is preventing them from continuing their patronage.

Yes, the bar owner is being told what he can do in his own bar with respect to smoking because its a public establishment regulated by the city. The city also tells him that he can't serve alcohol to minors in his own bar, and makes any number of other regulations pertaining to what he can and cannot do in his own bar. What else is new?

x

Who wants to bet that Mary's 4 kids all have allergies, chronic bronchitis during the winter and/or athsma? Nice parenting there, Mary. Did you smoke when you were pregnant with all 4 too, and breastfeeding? Jesus, the selfishness.

Botttom Line

Non-smokers are as obnoxious as vegans, PETA and anti-abortion activists. If they're so concerned about their health they shouldn't be drinking either, so STAY OUT OF THE BAR and let the smokers be.

yyy

Yes, ZZZ, the gov't does regulate private businesses. And it is a very legitimate debate as to where that line should be. Given that I go out drinking in NYC a lot and have yet to be unable to find a bar that isn't full of smoke, I don't understand what the problem is. There are places for those who want to smoke to go to and there are places for those that don't want to smell smoke to go too. People act like every bar in the city is filled with a cloud of smoke, but that is not the case. Find one that suits your needs and let the smokers find one that suits theirs. There is no reason why every bar has to be smoke-free.

Personally, I'd rather see the city fine smokers for throwing the cig butts on the sidewalk. That's already covered by the littering laws and its more of an eyesore. There is really no reason why smokers can't hold onto their finished cigs until they see a proper place of disposing them.

funonsmoker

attn: howmuchdoyouknow...first of all, you pompous ass, i really don't care what you think...secondly, i am neither a moron, nor am i weak. I just figured i would put my post in a format people such as you would be able to understand...obviously, it worked.

SmokeThis

Mary -
The loss of smoking tourists may not be that big of a concern in many places, because, as a general rule, they don't have the most money to spend. There is an inverse relationship between smoking and socieconomic status, i.e. the more education and disposable income a person has, the less likely they are to smoke.

SmokeThat

SmokeThis - you're point is generally true for US citizens but not true for foreign visitors (whether tourists or working here). Europe isn't as uptight as we are here so there is more smoking in all economic levels and the ones that can afford to come here have money. They are also a signif part of the economy in NYC and I would guess they make up a decent share of the CA tourist biz.

My only point is that there are economic issues for some businesses, particularly those that cater more to foreign visitors.

suzanne

Hmm...seems like a few people on this thread don't know this: drinking in moderation (1-2 drinks a day) IS good for your health.

Cyndy

I do live in NYC and once a month or so generally go out with friends after work for a couple of drinks. I really don't find bars to be that smokey like you all are making it out to be. Maybe I'm just frequenting those with better air purification systems. It isn't the problem that you all are making it out to be.

Within our group, there are 2 smokers (they always smoke when they have a drink!)They should be able to enjoy themselves like the rest of us when we go out. I'd vote to just leave it as is without changing any laws. I am VERY glad though that smoking in restaurants is not allowed, but leave the bars alone. It would hurt too many honest hardworking tavern owners (many who smoke themselves). Cyndy