Ii also questioned Balthazar. I am assuming that the visitors have been to Paris. Balthazar is kind of a NYC version of a quintessential brasserie. It is really pretty, but do they really want to waste a meal on eggs benedict? But if they ARe set on those, it can be for breakfast so it will not impinge on the dinner options.

What about Cafe con Leche? Why is this on the list? Please do not tell me that they are going to trek all the way to Amsterdam Avenue for Cuban food! (Are they goingn to the Museum of Natural History or any other place in that area?)

What about the place Patacon place that was mentioned in the sandwich article? That could be a substitute, for lunch, if absolutely necessary to keep some kind of Latin food in the plan:


http://cocotero-restaurant.com/menu.html#patacones

Sorry, in my indignation, I forgot to post this article:


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/di...s/22under.html

No worries, ek, it's just for breakfast and was always meant to be. Just like Prune was.
As for Café con Leche, it got three quite favourable mentions on this thread, and is marked as THE place with the best price-value-ratio all over NYC in that Unofficial Guide. Not worth it?

My friends inform me that Flea Market goes on the list, as well, thank you Aduchamp. They plead guilty to like Eggs Benedict for breakfast or brunch!

Cafe con Leche is fine as long as you like Dominican food (check out the menu on menupages) and realize that it is quite basic and that they expect to turn tables to make a profit. It;s not someplace you can go for a 2 hour dinner. We go there once every 2 or 3 weeks - it;s right in our area - but just for a quick dinner after work - not a relaxed let's sit and talk night.

NYT: Slight diversion from the OP. I would love to find a place with fabulous take-out chicken, done in the Latin style. I've tried Pio Pio and also Flor de Mayo, as well as Mancora on the LES. All were what I would call "good," but none was good enough to merit a special trip. I am beginning to be of the opinion that this is something I need to make at home to avoid continual disappointment.

Do you have any opinion about other sources in your area or further uptown? (Not Fairway, please; I do not think their are very good) I am willing to travel but only if the object of the trip is worth it!


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A9639C8B63

Hmmm. Some reviewers on yelp and chowhound even give Café con Leche really bad marks, while you, nytraveler, seem to like it; also Aduchamp was quite positive about it in his first post on this thread. OTOH, nytraveler, your review doesn't make it appear like a tremendously interesting place (as opposed to what The Unofficial Guide writes). My friends were drawn to it since they've never had Dominican cuisine so far, and in fact, not even knew that such a cuisine exists (as opposed to Caribbean in general). ek, do you know that place, or do you just think Dominican/Cuban/Caribbean fare is generally not worth wasting one of only nine NYC dinners? (No, they're not going to be in the neighbourhood for a quick lunch.)
To put the problem more generally, my friends are casual foodies, so to speak, so they're not happy to eat all dinners at upscale restaurants (Italy, of course, is a wonderful country for them, with some many places that serve stellar food while not being upscale at all.) Just to make you understand why they liked the idea of having a really basic neighbourhood restaurant on their list, as well; but of course, if the food isn't worth it... but then again, the Flushing Chinese restaurants should be casual enough to meet this requirement, true? And they are also enticed by the prospect of having five distinct and authentic regional Chinese cuisines available in Flushing; but of course, if they want to do, say, Le Bernardin, Craft, Degustation, a sushi place, Peter Luger's, and Kyo Ya, then it will hardly be possible to go to Flushing five times, and go to Café con Leche, as well. Or to Momofuku Ssäm. Even serious foodies can't have two dinners a day
Anyway, they will add Cocotero to their lunch/snack list. Maybe that's enough Latin food?

...so many, not some many. Will we ever get the edit function?

Franco: I think that that type of cuisine is not worthy for such a short visit. To be honest and without causing offense to anyone including my Dominican friends, I just do not think (with a few, greasy exceptions) that it is interesting or delicious enough to make the cut.

There are lots of fast food place in the uptown areas of Manhattan, where one can see or sample that type of cooking. Much of the food is fried and the meats are usually not of great quality. which does not mean that it cannot fulfill a craving, but again, it is not nearly the best our city can offer. I did not understand from the start why that place, or any of that ilk, were on the list.

Here is another option: They can stop into one of the Dominican places for a take-out drink. There is an orange/canned evaporated milk/ sugar beverage known as "morir sonando," or "to die dreaming," that I think is stellar, if they can abide very sweet drinks.

They will find it at any Dominican budget eatery. I can give you a list of addresses. That way, they can sample what I think is one of the best dishes without having to waste the entire meal on food that might not be up to the standards of the rest of the list. One place where I've been fairly often, and which will have this drink, is El Castillo de Jagua on the Lower East Side. There is another Dominican deli on Stanton Street just east of Allen, that also makes a good one. (My tailor is across the street so I often stop in when I am in the area) I think these two are even more no-frills- neighborhood places than Cafe con Leche--they are both quite authentic as far as Lower East Side Hispanic places are concerned. OR they can probably get this drink at Cafe con Leche but for some reson I do not see it on their menu.

I am trying to save them the trek up there if that is the only destination they will visit in the area.



http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant...ua-restaurant/




The Flushing places are certainly in the neighborhood category, although they will probably see non-Asians from outside the area at Imperial Palace and quite possibly at Little Pepper.
They might not see anyone other than locals at the two Lower East Side Dominican places that I mentioned (I've never been to, or seen, Cafe con Leche, so I don't know who eats there) but again, I would not go for the food if I had a very limited amount of meals. Either way, it will not be a disaster. Just say "no" to seafood at any of those places. Not that it will make them sick, but it will probably not be the best quality.

This is fun, Franco! I wish I were able to be here for their visit.

Yelp is abosultely the worst on-line restaurant review site. On most on-line sites half the people do not know what they are talking about. On Yelp half would be welcome.

Aduchamp, you hit the nail. That was my problem from the very start of this research: on each and every place, you'll get (among dozens of others) two votes, invariably: "the best restaurant I've ever been to" AND "the worst restaurant I've ever been to". That's why I turned here for your knowledgeable help. BUT one of the really terrible reviews of Café con Leche on yelp is by a guy who is originally from Miami, and seems to have grown up with Cuban/Caribbean food. So somehow he seems to belong to the minority who know their stuff. Probably. Or hopefully. Or not, since nytraveler says it's good enough. Anyway, s/he too doesn't seem to actually urge my friends to go there...
Ok, after all that, I think I'll be able to convince them to do that neighbourhood thing in Flushing. And to skip Dominican food. (Personally, I'm of no help here, either, since I, too, have never had any Dominican food. And not enough Cuban and Caribbean to make an educated guess on authentic renditions. Most of what I had was pretty mediocre. But one restaurant that used to be among my favourites years ago, did some Caribbean-inspired inventive cuisine that was simply terrific. I'll never forget their ceviche, in countless varieties.) But those Venezuelan plantain sandwiches at Cocotero's seem like a nice snack!

ek, glad you think it's fun. I was afraid you might already begin to hate it since we're so obnoxiously asking for details!

Franco: I love "talking" about food! And foisting my opinions on anyone who will listen!

I do agree about Yelp. Their age range is probably people in their early 20s, give some of the comments. I think that site it is waste of time when it comes to restaurants, although I've used them for things like trying to find a clock repair person. (No success there, by the way)

"And foisting my opinions on anyone who will listen!"

And you're pretty good on that! Should it, as I somehow envision, come to choosing two out of Bernardin-Craft-Degustation, which one would you skip? Or otherwise, if none of the three, which of the five Chinese Fu Run-Imperial Palace-Hunan House-Nan Shian-Little Pepper? And you others, what would you say?

Forgive us that we're so slow-witted... Aduchamp, you mentioned Nicky's Vietnamese Sandwiches, and I found their website. Are these Banh Mi sandwiches, too (they don't use that name on their menu)?

Yes. Here is someone else's synoposis. And it is this brief anonymous evaluation it was considered better than Momofuku Ssäm to which I concur.


http://newyork.citysearch.com/list/68013

Cafe con Leche is on the upper west side and is patronized by locals of all ilks - and every ethnicity you can think of. The neighborhood is mid/upscale residential mixed with a few smaller city housing projects.

Thanks! did you see my question to you above about take-out chicken (see post of 1:34pm)


Franco: I do not think that they are going to want to go to Flushing on so many nights. I've not been to Nan Shian, but I think they can leave that out, or go for a snack only. For example, go for one basket of the soup dumplings (known as xlb, or xiao long bao) and then move on for a large meal at, for example, LIttle Pepper.

Of all of those mentioned, I think--and this is very difficult--that they ought to visit LP and Imperial Palace. Those represent two very different styles of Chinese cooking--Sichuan and Cantonese seafood--and both are considered the best of their category by many Chinese-food-aficionados in the area.

I am also more familiar with Little Pepper's menu so I feel that I can guide them better there than I can at Fu Run, where I have only eaten about 5 times. Hunan House is a difficult place to leave out, though. Now I have managed to put myself in a pickle. Let me do some more thinking about this one....

Also, I did not mean in any way to demean Cafe con Leche. I was only trying to save them a subway trip if they were not going to be in the area for anything else, by pointing out that there are quite a few places serving that type of fare. But I think I should let that topic alone; I am the last one to dissuade someone from trying out an interesting food or a new restaurant. I think I was letting my own views predominate in my discussions of that type of food above.

I think that Craft, Degustation, and Le Bernadin need to stay in the rotation. Of the three, Le Bernadin is probably the finest overall, but also the least "New York."

I think, Franco, that you need to persuade your friends that three meals is at least one too few per day!

I think you friends should walk to the restaurants, so they can see the outside of some of the other restaurants.

Here's an update from my friends. They have decided to take Momofuku Ssäm off the list since they wanted also Aduchamp's opinion to be foisted on them . Strolling around and having a look at the restaurants is something they are actually wanting to do, but given the need for reservations at many places, this will probably be limited to Flushing.
So they are set on (in no particular order, and thinking of dinner only)
- Peter Luger's
- one sushi place (Yasuda or Ushiwakamaru)
- Little Pepper
- Imperial Palace

So we still have to take out two out of the following seven:
- Fu Run
- Hunan House
- Nan Shian
- Bernardin
- Craft
- Degustation
- Kyo Ya (we haven't discussed this one yet, but it seems to be just excellent, and very authentic)

We all know it's painful, but having four meals per day at least will unfortunately not work

A solution for Nan Shian might be to go there for lunch since they are going to do the Louis Armstrong House Museum one day before lunch... not exactly around the corner, but at least on the same subway line. Do you think that's feasible? Yes, they absolutely want to try Shanghai soup dumplings, something they never had so far. Has anyone eaten there? Is a bowl of those dumplings the size of a main course, or just a snack? If it's the latter, they might also have it as an appetizer, as ek proposed, before going elsewhere.
But even if we might thus have a solution for Nan Shian, there's still one too much on the list...

Bookmarking.