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Need the exact date the fall colors will be at their peak in Woodstock Vermont.

Need the exact date the fall colors will be at their peak in Woodstock Vermont.

Old Jul 24th, 2003, 12:58 PM
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Need the exact date the fall colors will be at their peak in Woodstock Vermont.

I know this is a impossible request, but can someone help. I have the opportunity to stay at a fancy bed and breakfast in Woodstock VT this fall and love fall colors. There must be some record of the average date of peak fall colors. I called the chamber of commerce and they gave me the politically correct statement of sometime from October 1st to October 15th.

I am looking for the average specific date!
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Old Jul 24th, 2003, 01:20 PM
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I find answers to impossible requests at these sites:
www.google.com
www.askjeeves.com
www.weather.com

I don't have the web address of the Amazing Karnak or whatever his name is.
 
Old Jul 24th, 2003, 01:44 PM
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Hey, what happened to the interesting replies that were here a few minutes ago? Girl, we really don't know more than the Chamber of Commerce, why not just pick the middle date, October 8, that way you'll also avoid the crowds of Columbus Day weekend. "Peak" isn't ever a single specific date, it's not as if the leaves are green one day, fabulous the next, and gone the third day. If the foliage isn't at its peak in Woodstock when you're there, it will be at its peak within less than an hour north or south of there.
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Old Jul 24th, 2003, 01:56 PM
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Just ask the Higher Authority and pray to hear an answer!
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Old Jul 24th, 2003, 03:16 PM
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I spent 15 years booking fall foliage tours to New England. There is NO exact date that anyone can give you. The dates vary from year to year depending on a number of factors -- weather/rain etc. The Chamber of Commerce gave you the best possible answer. They know the times that the leaves USUALLY change in their area. You are simply going to have to take a chance and go sometime in the middle of that period. NO ONE is going to guarantee dates or have an exact date for you. And if someone tells you otherwise BEWARE. They are LYING. I have booked people in the peak color time and an early frost came through and all the leaves fell. It can happen.

I understand your desire to be there for peak colors. But the area is pretty no matter when you are there. You should have some colors.

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Old Jul 24th, 2003, 08:12 PM
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Are you serious? Or, is this just another one of your rhetorical inquiries?

Anyway, averages, as you surely understand, are completely useless, as are percentages.

For example, if there's a 50% chance of rain - what does that mean? It means that it might rain, or it might not. Of course, if there's an 80% chance of rain, you might bring your umbrella. But, then, whenever you lug your umbrella around, it never rains. So, is an 80% chance better, or more likely, or not? Doesn't matter. It still may rain, or it may not.

I've lived in New England for 30 years and leaf peep, all over, each and every fall. (I have the added advantage of a 25 mile ride to work each way with glorious scenery all along the way so as to enjoy the changing leaves/colors twice each and every day.)

One year, we happened to spend the first weekend in October in North Conway, NH. Now, if you check www.weather.com, the average temps for that town on that date are a high of 65 and a low of 38. Well, while we were there, we were positively thrilled to have our down parkas along. It was freezing, dreary with overcast skies (looked like a black and white movie) with gusty winds, pouring down rain, off and on - and snow flurries! During the afternoon!

We happened to visit again the following year, the exact same weekend, same town. That year, it was HOT (high 70's, low 80's) and brilliantly sunny the entire weekend. We wished we had packed summer clothes rather than all those ubiquitous layers...

You just never can tell about the foliage either. Might come early, might come late, might last shorter or longer... Those in the know have learned that the very best way to enjoy the foliage is by driving all over. Even if it's before peak, or after peak, you just get in the car and drive to another nearby area. Each of the New England states has a foliage phone hotline, detailed by area, and updated regularly. And, those in the know, also understand that the foliage varies all over by elevation, proximity to water, etc. The colors can be significantly different on one side of the mountain or the other.

One year, we headed west along the Mohawk trail to the Berkshires. Actually, we were a little early, based upon "average dates", but the colors were spectacular. I wanted to stop every few miles for photos. My husband said, "Don't bother - it will be even better on the way back." Well, ahem! Over the weekend, there was a near hurricaine that blew ALL the leaves off ALL the trees! So, on the way back, the trees were completely baren.

To add to the confusion, there are various definitions of "PEAK". To me, "peak" is just before any leaves have actually fallen and the colors are yellow and red mixed with those still very green. To others, "peak" is when many leaves have dropped (so around half the trees are bare by then) and those remaining have turned gold, bronze, etc.

Any which way, no weekend is ever better, no matter where in New England you go, than any other. Living here, we have the advantage of checking the phone hotlines on Thursdays, and heading out in the best direction, and know where we can book last minute rooms at reasonable prices for nice accomodations (and, by then, they've given up demanding three-night minimums).

I'm wondering about that response you allegedly received from the Chamber of Commerce, as peak (start to finish) often takes place there in late September. I know because we've attended an figure skating show there each and every year for the past ten years or more. Sometimes the leaves are still green, sometimes they've just begun to change, sometimes the colors are brilliant, and sometimes they're quite "dull". And, all that depends upon all sorts of variable conditions all throughout prior months.

You haven't mentioned just how long you plan to stay. One day? A week? Obviously you're not planning on two weeks if you want to narrow down the specific date of "peak".

You know, "fall rates" for accomodations generally apply from mid-September to the end of October, whether or not there are any "fall colors" in effect.

All in all, even if there were such a thing as an "average specific date" it would be useless to you. Especially if you have a specific town or "fancy bed and breakfast" in mind.

For those who truly wish to experience the glorious New England Fall Foliage, the ultimum is to have lots of time - at least about three weeks - to spend in the area. I'd advise between September 24 and October 14.

The leaves start to change in the most northeast areas, then the colors move south and west, and you should do likewise. All sorts of conditions determine when and where the brilliant colors will occur. It is simply not predictable.

Those who rely on tour guides and the www for accomodations will be met with full up establishments (with tour buses) and those requiring minimum stays and/or stiff cancellation policies.

I would guess that, perhaps, only a third of the very nice and reasonably priced, places to stay can be found in tour guides or on the www.

For example, every five weeks (for my expensive hair color touch-up), I drive from where I work to the hairdresser then home. The scenery all along the way is positively glorious. And, the roads (any time of year) are a magnificent driving (curving roads, up and down, through incredible scenery, many waterside) experience. NONE of these towns, and NONE of the very nice accomodations all along the way are mentioned in ANY of the tour guides or the websites. These routes are also chock full of wonderful, even atmospheric and historical, eateries/fine dining, with fantastic food and ridiciulously cheap prices.

I'm guessing here that your "opportunity" is a weekend stay. Even if, which as you admit is IMPOSSIBLE, anyone could provide you with a recommended "average date of peak fall colors", that could very well occur Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday, whereupon you'd miss it in either direction anyway. Could be more green than not Sunday afternoon, with bare trees by the following Sunday.



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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 02:35 AM
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Touched a nerve, did he djbooks? Great reply. It's too bad the word peak was ever associated with Fall foliage. There is no single more spectacular than any other day. There are several weeks when Fall is very beautiful. Anyone who visits during the first two weeks of October has a very high chance of seeing great color.
It won't get any better unless you live here and enjoy it year after year.
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 03:52 AM
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djbooks - By the way, here we've been told that a "50% chance of rain" means it will rain over 50% of the area. Strange.
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 04:16 AM
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I would suppose it depends on the definition of "peak"...
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 10:14 AM
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October 11 at 2:34 PM. Be there then or you'll miss it!
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 03:06 PM
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Austin: "here we've been told that a "50% chance of rain" means it will rain over 50% of the area."

That was not my understanding of what percentages in weather forecasts mean so I went to the horses mouth. NOAA (the US weather folks) responded to me thusly:

"Generally, 70% (or any other probability) is an estimate of the
forecaster's confidence that it will rain at a given location during
that forecast period (usually 12 hours in length). It may be a
combination of expected area coverage and likelihood of precipitation
occurring at all. For example, if there is a 60% chance of rain
occurring, and covering about 50% of a given area, then any point within
that area might have a 30% chance of rain (50% of 60%). Generally,
though, it's a subjective estimate of the chance of rain at any given
point, based on computer guidance and forecaster interpretation."

Thus, it is not a forecast of what portion of the forecast area will get rain but rather an estimate of the liklihood of rain at a location during the forecast period.

What this has to do with travel I haven't a clue but maybe Fodors will leave it in just because I thought it was interesting.

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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 03:15 PM
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Dwoodon - I have a headache now that i read that explanation. FYI.

But really, the local channel here has a "weather School" piece every now and then and one of the questions was what the % mean. The forecaster expalined that contrary to popular belief, it meant that it would rain over a certain percent of the area. But I really think the other explanation makes more sense. All I know is that they are wrong here most of the time, so its a moot point really!
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 03:16 PM
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Jumbo - Do you reallllly think people are THAT stupid to belive it will be the 11th at 2:34 PM? It's more like the 10th. Sheesh.
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 03:31 PM
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Austin, the 10th is for *suburban* Woodstock; downtown, where the OP will apparently be staying, runs a day later because of urban heat-sink factors. Please check your facts before you ridicule others.
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 03:56 PM
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Austin!!
my head is spinning too! all of those percentages and they still seldom get it right. Today we were supposed to get rain, it was a gorgeous day!
But the leaves are all still green.
dwooden
I always thought that it meant a % of possibility of rain, not where it would be..but then, all week they have been wrong here, so I think there is a 99% chance, the Weatherman hasn't got a clue
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 06:33 PM
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Anonymouse - Pffft. Mr. Smartypants.
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 06:34 PM
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Hey, that's MS. Smartypants to you!
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Old Jul 25th, 2003, 06:34 PM
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Scarlett - I think that more tna 50% of us can agree (well, maybe at least 75% of the time) that forecasters are wrong about 90% of the time.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2003, 10:11 AM
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djkbooks:
Regarding the following comment:
For example, every five weeks (for my expensive hair color touch-up), I drive from where I work to the hairdresser then home. The scenery all along the way is positively glorious. And, the roads (any time of year) are a magnificent driving (curving roads, up and down, through incredible scenery, many waterside) experience. NONE of these towns, and NONE of the very nice accomodations all along the way are mentioned in ANY of the tour guides or the websites. These routes are also chock full of wonderful, even atmospheric and historical, eateries/fine dining, with fantastic food and ridiciulously cheap prices.

Won't you please share the names of some of these glorious gems with us? We would all more than appreciate you for it. By the way, your straightforward commentary on leaf-peeping is probably the best answer I've seen, based on all that I have read and heard. There is a general time frame for your best shot and, you will not likely be disappointed anytime within. I have been there twice in August and Sept. While it was only green with little other color, the beauty was still breathtaking to me. I hope to go in October someday. I'm sure I will be overwhelmed with it's splendor.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2003, 10:21 AM
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So Jumbo, if I get there at 2:35PM all the leaves will have fallen off the trees? Or do they just turn brown on second after 2:34PM on the 11th?

I really need to know the answer to this.

By the way, what is the best restaurant with a view?

Are there grocery stores in Woodstock or do I have to bring my own?

Are there good roads in and out of town or are they still dusty trails?

Will there be electricity?

Will my fannypack that is sequined in fall foilage patterns make me look like a tourist?
 

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