Neo

I remember when you wrote that the Carnegie and Stage where acceptable for tourists and they need not trak down to 2nd Ave or Katz's. What brought on this change of heart?

Neo, I have to agree with what you say about the ridiculous sandwich size at the Carnegie Deli. Back in 1990 while on our honeymoon, my wife and I had our very first meal in NYC at the Carnegie which was a must stop back then. When we saw how big the sandwiches were, we decided to just pay the extra charge and split a pastrami on rye with a side of potato salad. I managed to finish my portion but my wife could barely eat half of hers. No way would we order a whole sandwich per person there.

Auchamp, if I ever said that, and I REALLY doubt that I did, it was simply to someone staying in the neighborhood and looking for pastrami before a matinee or something similar.

You should know that I push Katz every chance I get, but if someone is worried about making it to a matinee two blocks from their hotel, I'm not likely to insist that they try to get to Katz or Second Ave. and back again on a matinee day and get indigestion worrying about making the curtain! Just as I often disagree with your idea that it is "necessary" to travel by taxi (or subway) before a show or after a show then return to a hotel in the theatre district for just a "reasonably good meal". It is pointless to have to do that, in my book, when there are MANY decent and better than that restaurants one can walk to from their hotel and theatre when they are NOT looking for a world class dining experience, just some good food at a fair price when the "star" of the evening is the Broadway show they are seeing.

But you often have a way of twisting my words. I still remember you reading me the riot act for being a "hypocrite" because in one week I mentioned that Carmine's is NOT a great Italian dining place as someone was told it was, and then a couple days later I told someone looking for a place for a whole group of hungry teenagers on a very low budget that Carmine's was perfect for them. That's not being a hypocrite -- it's reading the request and using some sense. It would be nice if you could distinquish the difference.

Try 2nd Avenue deli. Be sure to try the side dishes which distinguihses it from Katz's.

John's on Bleecker is good. If you venture into Brooklyn, Lucali is another place to consider, but be prepared for hour long waits. Di Fara is also wonderful. I'm not a huge fan of Lombardi's-it's ok. But L'Asso is my absolute favorite in NYC and located just around the corner from Lombardi's.

There are a few new gourmet pizza places that have opened recently. Mario Batali went around tasting their pies & ranking them. You can read about it here. http://nymag.com/daily/food/2009/03/pizza_tour.html

If you are after pastrami, there is nothing (in or out of NYC) like Katz's. You owe it to all Fodorits to sample BOTH Katz's and 2nd Avenue and report back on your verdict.

Okay, I've now been to six of the major delis in New York over the past several months. If you only do one NYC deli, I say make it Katz's and get the pastrami on rye, juicy. Have been racking my brain to think of a better sandwich I've had -- ever -- and I simply can't think of one. And I've had a lot of sandwiches over the years. Of these six NYC delis, I'd rank them:

-Katz's
-Second Avenue
-Carnegie
-Artie's
-Barney Greengrass
-Stage Deli

I don't think any of them are bad, but some are better than others. Most cities would kill to have something at the equivalent of even Stage Deli in this cuisine.

Also recently tried pizza at Lombardi's, and while it's very good, I like the pies at Grimaldi's and John's better.

Someday, in the near future, you will be able to eat at the Second Ave Deli after visiting a museum on the UES. A new branch will be opening on 75th and 1st Ave. And then you can go to Sedutto's for ice cream - wow, a new culinary destination comes to my hood!

The BEST pie in NYC has got to be Di Fara, without doubt. Just waited 1/2 hour in line for Grimaldi's on Fri. & the pizza was a huge disappointment! Rubbery cheese and tasteless sauce. The crust a little too chewy also. Di Fara is so authentically like the pizza in Napoli that it puts the others to shame.

Katz's deli and the melt-in-your-mouth pastrami on rye wins, hands down. 2nd Ave would be my second choice. The wait staff at Carnegie are so not nice and the sandwiches just way too huge that I wouldn't even consider it.

I'll second (or third or fourth) Lombardis. Agreed on 2nd Ave. and Katz's, although I actually like Carnegie and Stage, too.

The best pizza - totally subjective answer. One person's sublime pie is the other's major stink of a pizza.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archive...pizza-map.html

Katz is no secret. It's even been featured in a film (When Harry Met Sally) and lots of tourists go there to mix with all the locals (you always feels safe because it fills up with police and firemen). So it is not a surprise that some locals would be sure that it can't be the best -- because those "tacky" tourists have found it. It's not unlike the total denial by many people that if a restaurant has a couple branches thereby making it a "chain" then it simply CAN'T be any good any more. Same thing with the idea that if a place has tourists it can't be good. I wonder where the locals who believe that idea eat when they travel -- obviously wherever they eat in other cities must be bad because they are tourists and are eating there!

With regard to 'tacky tourists' eating in YOUR Deli's perhaps signs stating 'no tourists' would be the answer. Remind you of anything!

Grimaldi's is mediocre in my opinion.

DiFara far and away the best but you have to trek out to Midwood and endure the wait, which might make this just too inconvenient for a visitor to NYC who is not totally food obsessed.

New pizza places in Manhattan that may be worth trying are these, which have each received recent accolades; the first is the masterwork of Sullivan Street Bread's Jim Leahy, with Jean Georges Vongerichten, of Jean Georges' fame, as investor:

http://www.co-pane.com/



http://www.kestepizzeria.com/menu.html


http://nymag.com/restaurants/openings/55330/

For good Jewish deli also: Pastrami Queen -- 78 St. and Lexington Ave.

fwiw - my B'klyn sources (friends and family) tell me the best Sicilian pizza is either at Spumoni Gardens on 86th St or Vic's on Kings Highway (betw W 6th & 7th where the old Highway theater used to be) although they're different from each other and probably not very accessible for visitors. They feel Di Fara is not worth the wait. For regular pizza, they go to Casa Bella on Cropsey. I would love to try them all and report back, but my diet is not allowing it right now.

<i>I would love to try them all and report back, but my diet is not allowing it right now.</i>

Sorry this is OT, but I had to tell cpg that we got a slice of Regina's when we were in Boston and it was excellent -- I took off the pepperoni and had two bites (my diet won't allow more either, especially since I also ate a 1/4 of a cannoli at Mike's!)

sf7307 - you have my sincerest, most heartfelt sympathy and support!