N.Y. restaurant patron in jail for not tipping enough!
. Larry
Sep 14th, 2004, 05:24 PM
#42
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No, Scarlett, I realized from the start it was a quoted newspaper article. I just didn't realize it was an article about the SAME incident. At first I thought you were quoting another one. We're all suffereing from "plywood stress" here in Florida, so we could have a contest to see who is the most confused!
By the way, I was relating this by phone this evening to a waiter friend of mine. Although his restaurant has the 18% added for groups, even he can't remember off hand if the menu says "gratuity" or "service charge", but he added that they have always been instructed if there is a question from the patrons about it or a challenge to immediately drop it. They only do it because, as discussed above, groups often simply don't include the tip in their accountings.
Meanwhile I still say if the idiots in the original story refused to leave the required money because "they weren't completely satisfied with the food", then they are true a------s who don't deserve to be allowed into restaurants to begin with. I have little doubt that these pizza eating thieves were just plain cheap folks who look for ways not to spend more than they have to -- I've seen their type before. Who ever heard of not tipping because the pizza wasn't "entirely satisfactory"?
By the way, I was relating this by phone this evening to a waiter friend of mine. Although his restaurant has the 18% added for groups, even he can't remember off hand if the menu says "gratuity" or "service charge", but he added that they have always been instructed if there is a question from the patrons about it or a challenge to immediately drop it. They only do it because, as discussed above, groups often simply don't include the tip in their accountings.
Meanwhile I still say if the idiots in the original story refused to leave the required money because "they weren't completely satisfied with the food", then they are true a------s who don't deserve to be allowed into restaurants to begin with. I have little doubt that these pizza eating thieves were just plain cheap folks who look for ways not to spend more than they have to -- I've seen their type before. Who ever heard of not tipping because the pizza wasn't "entirely satisfactory"?
Sep 15th, 2004, 08:25 AM
#43
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Gratuity or Service Charge?
Providing software support for (NY state) country clubs a few years ago, this issue came up, as they were considering "standard" tips added to checks in the various food/bev outlets. After conferring with lawyers & accountants, here's what was discovered:
1- a service charge is to be considered revenue. Whereas tips are simply an exchange of funds (from guests/members to the employee), the service charge is considered income, just as the meal is, and must be taxed as income. Opinions varied as far as whether sales tax would be applicable on the service charge.
2- a standard "gratuity" was allowed, as long as the check included that the amount was calculated as a convenience to the guest, and that the amount could be increased, decreased, or eliminated completely, at the descretion of the guest.
While I agree the arrested patron was an a**, I also consider the mandatory charges outrageous too, and agree that waiting on a party of 1*6 not much different than 2*3 (and yes, I've "paid my dues" working in hotel & restaurant industries). I too smiled at the admission of the manager who acknowledged how poorly his employees are compensated.
Providing software support for (NY state) country clubs a few years ago, this issue came up, as they were considering "standard" tips added to checks in the various food/bev outlets. After conferring with lawyers & accountants, here's what was discovered:
1- a service charge is to be considered revenue. Whereas tips are simply an exchange of funds (from guests/members to the employee), the service charge is considered income, just as the meal is, and must be taxed as income. Opinions varied as far as whether sales tax would be applicable on the service charge.
2- a standard "gratuity" was allowed, as long as the check included that the amount was calculated as a convenience to the guest, and that the amount could be increased, decreased, or eliminated completely, at the descretion of the guest.
While I agree the arrested patron was an a**, I also consider the mandatory charges outrageous too, and agree that waiting on a party of 1*6 not much different than 2*3 (and yes, I've "paid my dues" working in hotel & restaurant industries). I too smiled at the admission of the manager who acknowledged how poorly his employees are compensated.
Sep 15th, 2004, 10:01 AM
#45
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So if 6 people want to eat in a restaurant but do not want to be charged a mandatory tip/gratuity, should they break it up and seat 3 at seperate tables?
If only restaurants paid those poor wait people better, this would never be a problem.
Surely not all restaurants have very little profit?
Patrick,
Plywood Stress has definitely affected me, I cannot find my cell phone now
If only restaurants paid those poor wait people better, this would never be a problem.
Surely not all restaurants have very little profit?
Patrick,
Plywood Stress has definitely affected me, I cannot find my cell phone now
Sep 15th, 2004, 12:07 PM
#47
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When my husband worked in a restaurant he would bring tips weekly, and he was a cook. So yes, you do tip for food quality too, not only for service.
Would a cook care that much if s/he knew there will be no tips? NO!
Would a cook care that much if s/he knew there will be no tips? NO!
Sep 16th, 2004, 06:25 AM
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Faina, how does one go about tipping the cook/chef? Or is it just the tips given to the waiter are split between all.
Gosh I've obviously been severely remiss all these years - never tipped a front desk clerk, or a chef in a restaurant!!!
Gosh I've obviously been severely remiss all these years - never tipped a front desk clerk, or a chef in a restaurant!!!
Sep 17th, 2004, 06:11 AM
#52
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Another tipping thread here discusses the issue of the illegality of waiters sharing tips with fully paid staff including chefs or cooks. I know that is an issue here in Florida, where I waiter friend of mine was recently given a check for a little over $ 1000 in payment for the illegal sharing they were required to do for years with behind the counter staff. There was threatened legal action on it, and the restaurant did an "approximation" of what was owed to each person -- although my friend knows this is fraction of what he paid out over 9 years there!
Personlly I can't imagine tipping a chef unless you had requested some very specially prepared meal that wasn't on the menu and involved extra "shopping" and preparation from him -- like for a special group or celebration dinner.
Personlly I can't imagine tipping a chef unless you had requested some very specially prepared meal that wasn't on the menu and involved extra "shopping" and preparation from him -- like for a special group or celebration dinner.
Sep 17th, 2004, 06:24 AM
#53
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I think these rip-off restaurants should list their dish's and prices like this.
Pasta Verde....$11.80 (includes manditory 18% tip)
....$10 for party of five or less (tip as you like).
This would cerntainly get the patron's attention.
Pasta Verde....$11.80 (includes manditory 18% tip)
....$10 for party of five or less (tip as you like).
This would cerntainly get the patron's attention.
Sep 17th, 2004, 12:07 PM
#54
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To seetheworld: Actually they are oart of a chain, based in Chicago I think, called "lettuceentertainyou." There are several other restaurants in this chain including Wildfire, R.J. Grunts, The Big Bowl and Shaws Crab House. All do pretty well here.
Sep 17th, 2004, 12:13 PM
#55
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Indie, at my husband's work all tips received by the waiters were shared. Not sure how, equally or not, but every Friday he'd bring home some cash. It may vary from restaurant to restaurant.
He was not tipped directly. I don't think anybody would bother to meet him in person!
He was not tipped directly. I don't think anybody would bother to meet him in person!
Sep 17th, 2004, 12:26 PM
#56
Yes in most restaurants the tiips are shared . That's why I will slip a tip to my hard working waiter because he must share the tips with some not so efficient co-worker. Also, the Check rooms are usually consessions. I worked in my younger days at a famous jazz club and the guys would tip me and tell me to put it in my shoe since they knew what I didn't at first. Last year in NYC there was a big todo because the complaints were- having to also share tips (at some top spots) with the Maitr-D
Sep 17th, 2004, 01:11 PM
#57
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Question: if servers are forced to share all tips, do they still get to see if someone has tipped them generously for particularly good service (or meagerly for lousy service)? The point of a tip is communication -- seems pointless if the runners clear the table, take the "book" with the receipt/money/tip back to the cashier and the server never sees it.
Sep 17th, 2004, 02:54 PM
#58
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Patrick, as a cook I certainly did not make as much as the waiters after they recieved their tips, and they did not share tips with us. Cooks are "fully paid"? I made minimum wage and I was a cook directly under the Chef in a restaurant requiring prior experience and also lots of hard work.
FainaAgain, what do you mean by "I don't think anybody would bother to meet him in person"? I don't follow you.
This whole tipping thing pits restaurant employees against each other. They are all under-paid for the demanding fast-paced work they do. Owners need to pay higher wages.
FainaAgain, what do you mean by "I don't think anybody would bother to meet him in person"? I don't follow you.
This whole tipping thing pits restaurant employees against each other. They are all under-paid for the demanding fast-paced work they do. Owners need to pay higher wages.
Sep 17th, 2004, 03:21 PM
#59
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jor, you worked in the wrong restaurant. In the ones I know about around here (upscale ones, not Denny's or Olive Garden) the chefs easily pull in over $100,000. Upper staff cooks under them easily top half that. That's in salary. Things are competitive here, and when even a line cook is good, he ends up getting more "under the table" to keep him there. They are indeed well paid, although a good waiter at those places may still top that. On the other hand the cooks don't deal with the public, so I'm not sure that it isn't all fair if they don't end up with as much as a good waiter.
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:03 PM
#60
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Don't judge a book by its cover, you never get the whole story in these newspaper quips.
Cold pizza, for example, could be the fault of a lousy server. And one doesn't always have time to sit and wait for a replacement, the only satisfaction might come from scrimping on the tip, if of course you are able to determine that it was the server's fault.
Or, a waiter might describe something incorrectly. For instance if the waiter said they put sweet sausage on the pizza, and it is actually hot sausage...that's a reason to scold in my book. And there's only one kind of scolding that a waiter pays attention to.
Cold pizza, for example, could be the fault of a lousy server. And one doesn't always have time to sit and wait for a replacement, the only satisfaction might come from scrimping on the tip, if of course you are able to determine that it was the server's fault.
Or, a waiter might describe something incorrectly. For instance if the waiter said they put sweet sausage on the pizza, and it is actually hot sausage...that's a reason to scold in my book. And there's only one kind of scolding that a waiter pays attention to.
