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N.Y. restaurant patron in jail for not tipping enough!

N.Y. restaurant patron in jail for not tipping enough!

Old Sep 14th, 2004, 01:29 PM
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Interesting thread. I tip based upon the waiters service, not the food. If the food is bad then I send it back and order something else (only have done that once and the food was truely horrible). Unless the waitstaff has done something egregious, such as spill food on me or reach across me dragging a sleeve in my food, I tip well knowing this people don't make alot of money. But this is not the issue. I would hazard the issue has to do with disclosure, whether the restaurant actually had the notice posted.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 01:41 PM
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I was totally basing my answers above on the assumption that the charge was printed on the menu. I even noticed the culprit said they "didn't see it on the menu" not "it wasn't on the menu".
Interesting twist of terms on the judge's part, Howard and Craig. Usually when I see the group charge on a menu it says a "service" charge. I don't think I've seen it listed as a gratuity. As we all know we are forced to pay "service charges" on lots of things from ordering tickets to using a credit card. We don't have the option of deciding if we want to pay or ignore a standard "service" charge -- it doesn't imply that the service is good or bad, simply that it is a standard charge. Now if the place is saying a "gratuity" or "tip" is added and required, that certainly could call for some clarification and argument.

But this witholding a tip from the waiter because of the food is another matter entirely. The waiter works for tips, does anyone really believe it's the waiter's fault that the steak is too tough or the soup is salty?
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 01:48 PM
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I'm sure they wouldn't have arrested him if it wasn't clearly printed on the menu.

18 percent for a party of six? Seems to me waiting on two parties of three would be just as difficult for a waiter as waiting on one party of six.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 01:51 PM
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We eat out a lot in some pretty pricey places. There's only one time (Cucina Biazzi, Ashland, OR) that we did not tip. Service was basically non-existent except to put the plates on the table.

We left no tip and the waitress chased down our car! Thought we had forgot to tip her. We told her that the service was horrible, and therefore, no tip.

But at Chateaulin (another Ashland place that we like) I noticed that a tip is included in your final bill. We had no problem with that since the service and food were both excellent there.

I've noticed that this is usually the norm with groups of 8 or larger and it is printed on the menus. ***kim***
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 01:53 PM
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I bet the waiter who got stuck with this group of losers would disagree with you on that, clarkgriswold.

I think the reason that so many restaurants add that charge for groups is because so many times the larger groups split the bill and leave their share. When they do that, invariably it is the waiter's share than comes up missing!
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 02:01 PM
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clarkgriswold, to elaborate on what Patrick said, the reason they do this is that large parties seldom leave a decent tip, especially when pooling their money. Have you ever passed the check around a large table? Some folks count what has already been given, and just add the "rounded" total, perhaps forgetting about that extra drink or the appetizer they ordered, not to mention TAX and tip. Then the last guy in line has the job of counting all the money to see if he's got enough to cover. He doesn't know who left what...it's up to him to supplement the tip or argue more money out of his tablemates.

And it's easier to get two sets of three dinners out hot and on-time, than six dinners all at once.

I still don't like forced gratuities, but I understand them for large parties.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 02:35 PM
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Just to clarify - this was not an issue of tip being withheld on account of the food. It was withheld on account of the service. Please try to read what has been posted.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 02:43 PM
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In the September 2004 issue of Chef Magazine they have an article about tipping and there research shows a single guest usually tips 20% at a table for five or more when the check is split the tip is usually cloes to 13.5% the larger the party,the greater likely hood of a reduced tip (unless the amount is agreed in advance) also in the article about Tipping .The tip cups popping up everyware or are they a receptacle for your guilt .Are you absolved from sin if you tip for the lattte you just got Will the 20% rule applie on a 75 cent muffin? And What if You were not seen by the server leaving a Tip will it still Count ! ask George Costansa
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 02:46 PM
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"Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant Sunday night. He told the Glens Falls Post-Star they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus..."

Craig, I was reading ALL the posts and this is what was quoted. Note the "weren't completely satisfied with the food" in the article as quoted by Scarlett as being said by the "culprit". It was only a paraphrased version in the original post that suggested they didn't pay because of the service.

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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 02:51 PM
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We used to eat out with an older couple who were neighbors of ours and the man was the cheapest guy I ever met. Here was his reasoning:

"Ok the bill is $87.00 and we're going to split it two ways. That's $40 a couple. The tax (6%) is about $3.00 of that and I don't tip on tax, so that makes a rounded off $35.00. We picked up our drinks at the bar so we shouldn't pay tip on those which were $4.00 each or $8.00, so we each owe tip on $25.00. Here's my $2.50." I can't tell you how many times, I slipped the waiter an extra $10.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:09 PM
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It's too bad people confuse food quality with service quality. In Bermuda gratuity is added to your bill. Now some people would think that this practice doesn't give waitstaff the incentive to be courteous but I have found that not to be the case.

Both of my sons were table runners (would bring the food to the table) during high school for a fine local establishment and although their share of the tip was small compared to the waiter's, it certainly supplemented the small base wage they were earning. If there is displeasure with the quality of the meal give the restaurant the opportunity to fix the complaint. If it is just poor service, then you can decide what percentage tip is appropriate. Just remember the person who brings you the food does not prepare it
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:10 PM
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Well, Patrick you've got to understand that once one person paraphrases then subsequent posters assume it to be the truth. Obviously you are more intelligent than that and for that I give you max credit.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:15 PM
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Don't feel bad, Craig. First time through I thought Scarlett's quote was an entirely different story, just being used as another example. Then I finally figured out it was the newspaper article about the original post!
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:21 PM
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On the flip side heres my story. We went to Maggianos one night. There were 4 of us, it was a very busy Sat. night and we were finished in around 70 min. Not bad. Well the manager told us as we were waiting for our bill that our order had been botched. That is one of our entrees was taken to another table by mistake so our order had to be remade and because of their mistake the entire meal inc. drinks was on the house! We have been loyal customers ever since and how many new customers have they gotten from the 4 of us telling this story? That is how you do business IMHO. It's about proper treatment.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:24 PM
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Patrick, Craig,
My quote has the words " From AP" at the top, meaning Associated Press...I thought that would be all one would need to know that it was not my wording...
Sorry if I caused more confusion..if that is even what you are talking about, being as confused as I am anyway~
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:25 PM
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Austin honey, thank you
I did try calling my phone but it is turned off
If anyone finds it, let me know LOL
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:26 PM
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Jacketwatch: Is it Maggianos in Boston?
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 03:56 PM
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The Warren County District Attorney's Office says a restaurant patron can't be forced to leave a gratuity.

Prosecutors say establishments have to call it a service charge -- not a tip -- in order to make it a mandatory add-on charge.


Sounds like a reasonable legal distinction to me, a "charge" being something you're required to pay.

The 41-year-old Long Island man was arrested Labor Day weekend when the restaurant owner accused him of not leaving an 18-percent gratuity required for large parties.

If the restaurant actually referred to it as a "gratuity" on their menu, then it seems like, legally, they don't have a leg to stand on and the prosecutors made the right decision.

Since, by definition, a "gratuity" is something given voluntarily, then "gratuity required" or "mandatory gratutity" are oxymorons.

If a "service charge" is mandatory, I'd also think a restaurant would have to make this very clear on their menu, for their to be a "meeting-of-the-minds" contract.
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Old Sep 14th, 2004, 04:06 PM
  #39  
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Larry, we got a Maggiano's in Durham a couple of years ago, and we love it! Food is superb, and love the atmosphere, a really classy chain. Your story doesn't surprise me at all.........
 
Old Sep 14th, 2004, 04:20 PM
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Larry, I am SICK about the Panthers! #39;(
And one of our stars now has a broken leg.......... gonna hurt us so bad!!! Good luck to you and your Bears. (I understand about the Packers.... I like anybody who beats the Cowboys!!! )

No to the Alaska cruise, but my best friend did one, and loved it. She said she was really happy they went, loved the food and the gorgeous scenery.
 

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