krblum04

Wondering if anyone could help out a midwesterner(Milwaukee,WI) moving to the Northwest? My fiance and I have to move to either Northern California, Oregon, or Washington. Due to my job we have to be relatively close to a large airport (i.e. San Fran, Portland, Seattle) She's a teacher and we don't really know anything about the area. I've done some research on the weather and it seems that Portland and Seattle are pretty similar. We are in our mid 20's no children and will live in this part of the U.S. for approx. 3-5 years. Our rent is going to be paid for "within" reason and that is coming from someone who lives in Milwaukee, WI. Obviously we'll be renting and not looking to buy a house. Any recommendations or advice on these three cities or another area around these 3 cities would be very helpful. The best way to describe us would be an active young couple who appreciate hip/chic restaurants, entertainment and looking to have some fun but not pay a fortune to do so. Too any recommendations as to where a teacher would want to look into around these metropolitan areas would be very helpful.

christy1

Is there any way you can take some quick weekend trips to these places? Maybe find some last minute fares? All of these cities have some great things going for them. I'm from Seattle and still live here but have spent quite a bit of time in the other two cities and can say that all three are terrific places.

I guess one way to start would be to decide how big a city you'd like to live in. SF has a much more urban feel than either Sea or Portland, with all the good (ie more shopping/restaurants/entertainment options) and bad (higher crime/congestion/high prices) that goes with it. You might want to find out what "within reason" means-you do know that SF rents are some of the highest in the nation, right? Will you be able to afford $1500 (not including parking) for a one bedroom apartment?

Seattle and Portland are smaller, less expensive, less crowded and have great, friendly neighborhoods. They're also closer to the mountains, and it's easier to, say, get out of town on the weekends and find a campsite, since you aren't dealing with the kind of population the SF bay area has. They're big enough to have lots of entertainment options, too, but not as many as SF.

In Seattle, I can tell you that for lots of shopping/entertainment/restaurant/bar options, Fremont, Capitol Hill, and Ballard are particularly fun neighborhoods.
Here are their websites-maybe take a look and see if anything looks like a good fit for you:

http://www.inballard.com/Webroot/index_7.shtml

http://www.fremontseattle.com/center_frameset.htm

http://www.onlyoncapitolhill.com/links

artlover

I'm very familiar with all 3, and think they all have many pluses. From what you're saying, SF would probably be your most suitable place, but is very expensive, followed by Seattle, then Portland, but I think you'll find all 3 to be terrific places to live.

I suggest you take a trip and check all three out for yourself so that you can get a better idea.

Gardyloo

Size matters. The SF Bay area is bigger than Chicagoland, for example - is that too big for you? If not, then the variety, cultural diversity, opportunity (and the weather) would be hard to beat. Downsides are very high cost of living, traffic and congestion issues, and did I mention the high cost of living? Don't know about teacher demand, but sheer numbers suggests there must be some. Lots of local universities cranking out teacher candidates, though. In three hours you can be in Lake Tahoe or, depending on traffic, San Jose.

Seattle is smaller overall, with splendid access to the outdoors, a great cultural scene (second only to NYC in equity theater offerings, first in book sales, etc.) music, restaurants. Wet, but only slightly more rainfall annually than Milwaukee. While real estate is expensive, rentals (for the time being) are not very high, and there's no state income tax. Some demand for teachers in both public and private schools. In three hours you can be in Vancouver or Portland.

Portland is the smallest region of the three, but the city has come light years on the cultural, restaurant, entertainment and other lifestyle fronts. Very liberal (like SF and Seattle) surrounded by red counties (not like SF or Seattle); good access to wild country - the Columbia Gorge, skiing at Mt Hood, the coast... Not as cheap as it once was, but still affordable by California standards. Tax revolts have left many public services on the ropes. No sales tax, but personal income tax. Smaller population might mean fewer teaching jobs. In three hours you can be in Seattle or Roseburg. Woo hoo.

I would never contemplate moving to a place I hadn't visited for a good long stretch, and not just in the summer tourist season. Come during spring break, or in the winter if you can manage it. Subscribe to the papers, or buy them at Barnes & Noble, whatever. Know before you go.

suze

In Seattle i can afford to live right in the city (Capitol Hill). When i researched San Fran i would have to live outside and commute on BART (Oakland, etc.). To my mind, salaries in SF are similar but living near downtown is more expensive than Seattle.

Andrew

As young as you are, I would be tempted to recommend San Francisco for an adventure. It would be by far the most expensive of the three but it would probably give you some very memorable years to look back on. If you think it's worth the money and you wouldn't mind living in a huge city, I would go to San Francisco. Just do some research on cost of living first.

I live in Portland. Portland and Seattle have similiar climates, but Seattle is a lot bigger than Portland. Traffic is worse in Seattle. I prefer Portland because it feels mangable to me and not overwhelming. As you might guess Seattle has more arts/culture going on because it is bigger. You'll have a better choice of restaurants. But you will find plenty of cultural stuff to do in Portland, it just depends on what your tastes are in a place to live. Portland has a lot of the "big city" stuff just not as much as Seattle or San Francisco.

I'm guessing Portland is the cheapest option of the three also (Oregon has income tax but no sales tax, but rents should be cheaper here than in Seattle).

As someone else said, you might try to take a road trip to all three and compare. In fact, a drive from SF up the Oregon Coast then east to Portland, north to Seattle, would make a nice vacation.

Andrew

PamSF

You have a variety of options here. SF will itself probably be the most expensive. Is your finance hoping to teach here? The SF schools are not in very good shape. You might consider areas on the Peninsula(San Mateo,San Carlos) which will still be high rent but less than the city itself. You could also consider the East Bay which would give you access to both Oakland Airport and SFO. Rents on this side of the bridge are a bit more managable. Look at Oakland. If your finance wants to teach have her look at school districts like Orinda, Lafayette,Mt Diablo. For a few miles more she can teach in Pleasanton which has some of the highest teachers' salaries around.

Portland is great and managable as a city. I really like the feel of that city. It does feel like a much smaller place than either SF or Seattle and certainly much less diverse.

Seattle is a great city and the rents will be high but less than SF. Surrounding school districts like Bellvue, Kirkland, Redmond etc are worth looking at as the area is growing by leaps and bounds. There is a great deal of Microsoft money. One consideration..I recently heard from folks looking into to transferring to WA from SF to teach, there are significantly more school days in the state of WA.

Good luck!

christy1

I can't speak to the teaching issue like the above poster, but if this is a three year adventure for you, I'd really encourage you to NOT live in the suburbs. They aren't a place for a young couple that likes to go out and have fun, since traffic really makes getting between the 'burbs and the city (in Seattle especially) a real pain. The Seattle suburbs the above poster mentioned aren't horrible, but they aren't inexpensive, fun, or vibrant places either.

Kostroma

Since your wife is a teacher, I recommend her researching the state of the public school systems. I don't know about the other two places, but I live in Redmond (8 miles east of Seattle) and while the district itself is excellent, WA state schools are all facing budget crunches. Also, the government and teachers' union have been at loggerheads for a while now about salaries and benefits because the voters passed a salary increase a few years ago and the state has yet to implement it. That's something to take into consideration.

Brian_in_Charlotte

We're mid 30s with no children and if I could figure out how to make any real money there, I'd move to Portland in a heartbeat. To me, San Francisco is a bit of a pit.

LoveItaly

Hi krblum, I love all 3 cities, all are fabulous IMHO.

However, since your wife is a teacher I would strongly urge her to check out the SF school system. Am not a teacher but if I were that would not be where I would want to work.

Portland evidently is having serious budget problems. I say that because my DIL has a niece who has started teaching in Portland and evidently there are lots of problem

But then again maybe every school district in the country is having problems one way or another.

I would chose to live in SF first, for reasons others have stated, the Portland then Seattle. But again, they are all beautiful cities. Weather wise I think SF has the best.

Andrew

LoveItaly, you are right about many schools in the US having problems. The question is, how does Portland (and Seattle, and San Francisco) compare to everywhere else in the US?

Voters in Multnomah County (which includes most of Portland) prevented things from getting even worse for schools a few years ago by voting in a local county income tax (1.25%) aimed primarily at school funding (also public safety). But this is supposed to be a temporary tax which is due to expire at the end of 2005, at which time they were hoping the economy would pick up and the State of Oregon would be flush with tax money again as in the 1990's. But that doesn't appear to be happening... I think the tax will become permanent.

Anyway, I would love to see a comparison of public schools nationwide, anywhere from average class size to teacher pay, etc. Anyone know of any existing data?

Andrew

LoveItaly

Hi Andrew, I sure do not know of any comparison chart. Have you tried Google.

If I were a teacher I would prefer to teach in Portland vs SF. I don't know how SF keeps their dedicated teachers.

And BTW, your Portland is so beautiful and easy to be in. Have kids and grandkids there. My late DH was from Portland as was his grandfather and g.grandfather. Portland IMHO is a wonderful, friendly and easy city to be in (even when it rains). Just would not know how to handle snow and especially icy streets etc. Only because I have been in SF BayArea all my life.

My DIL niece went to University in Portland (after being raised in SF BayArea) and loved Portland so much she decided to stay and teach there. And is very happy on a day to day basis. My DIL teaches to but in a parochiol school. And loves her job, but they have budget promblems too.

Oregon does not have a sales tax but you mentioned a temporary county tax
increase. Am I correct Oregons property tax is very high due to not having a sales tax? CA is figured around 1.25% of property value with only a (I think) 2% increase in property value allowed per year due to Prop. 13 that passed back in 1978.

Fodorite018

I live in the Portland area, and we have lived in the Seattle area. Our kids attend suburban schools, but having children in school in both OR and WA I can tell you that both states have their own problems as well as their own good points. Kostrama is correct about the ongoing problems in WA between the teachers union and the government. Our district there was on strike for nearly a month due to that.

There is one website that has been helpful to us in our moves regarding schools, and it is www.greatschools.net. It does not show all the variables, but it is a start for comparing schools and districts.

LoveItaly

Hi mms, I wonder if Oregon or Washington has as many problems as California does thanks to our State legislatures in Sacramento and the gov.

I don't get into political talks but really our California educational system is pathetic. I am sad to say when one of my grandsons talked about becoming a teacher the whole family gave him the hard cold facts about what he would be facing, including me. How sad is that?

No occupation IMHO is more important (and no I am not disregarding medical and health, fire and police etc.) then our teachers. Where would all the other occupations be without a decent education? I truly do not know how our dedicated teachers hang in there year after year. True heros in my eyes.

Fodorite018

LoveItaly--I feel the same way about teachers! We had an incredible school in WA, and so when the teachers went on strike the parents joined in the picket lines. The elementary school was within our nieghborhood, and it was a very close knit group. Everyone brought them lunch and snacks daily. A good teacher is worth far more than what they currently get paid. My dh wants to teach high school science and math, but we joke that he can't give up his engineering job until the kids are out of college.

Fodorite018

LoveItaly--I feel the same way about teachers! We had an incredible school in WA, and so when the teachers went on strike the parents joined in the picket lines. The elementary school was within our nieghborhood, and it was a very close knit group. Everyone brought them lunch and snacks daily. A good teacher is worth far more than what they currently get paid.

Orcas

Agree with you on the value of teachers and the schools. Our kids have been in the public schools in a Portland suburb and now a Seattle suburb, and school funding is a major problem in both States. I know more about the problems in Oregon, as we lived there as they evolved. Here they are in a nutshell, as I understand them.

In 1990, Oregon voters passed Ballot Measure 5, the first of several ballot measures limiting property taxes and taxes paid by businesses. Ballot Measure 5 also gave the State the responsibility of providing all operating funds for the public schools. The State legislature, dominated by rural districts, came up with a funding formula that has been particularly damaging to school districts in urban/suburban areas.

There was little apparent impact when the economy was going great guns in the 1990's. When Oregon's economy tanked with the recession, so did State revenues, which were largely dependent on an income tax. Accordingly, school funding was reduced.

The problem became a crisis a couple of years ago, with some districts running out of operating funds before the end of the school year and actually having to shut their doors weeks early. Some have eliminated sports programs in the high schools. Classroom size has increased. The system of higher ed has been badly hurt. There are major morale and funding problems in many school districts in Oregon.

Your wife should definitely see what her options are in each of the areas you are thinking about before you make a decision.

LoveItaly

Orcas, I guess California isn't the only state with a big problem regarding education.

I knew that Portland was having problems, I just did not know how serious Oregons problems were. Basically I keep hearing how much my DIL niece loves teaching and how wonderful her students are.

Somehow our US educational system has to come up to acceptable standards.
But how and when doesn't look to be in the near future does it. And that is a loss to our entire country.

PamSF

Clarification: the mention of the suburbs has more to do with places one can teach and look at higher salaries for teachers generally.