Moving from Florida to Grand Canyon and on to Portland, OR
Oct 16th, 2016, 11:23 AM
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Moving from Florida to Grand Canyon and on to Portland, OR
Our house is finally selling and we will likely be moving in mid to late November. For various reasons we need to move out to the Portland, OR area within a couple weeks of the closing date. We would like to be able to stop at the Grand Canyon along the way, as it is a dream for us, especially the kids.
We will also be towing a cargo trailer. Our SUV is front-wheel drive. We don't have chains, but could get them if needed. Recommendations on where and when to get chains would be appreciated (online vs a place on the road).
I know that any recommendations need to be taken with a grain of salt, and that we need to be very mindful of weather patterns and look at the road cameras on our route.
I have been searching various sites for route ideas during November and possibly December (if the closing gets pushed back a week). There are two legs to the trip. From home to the Grand Canyon, then from the Grand Canyon to Portland. For the first leg I have two ideas:
1) Take I-75 north to I-10 west. Follow I-10 until it meets I-20 in Jackson, MS. Take I-20 until Dallas and follow the roads around it until we get on 287. Then take 287 to I-40 west until just south of the Grand Canyon. Then take local roads until we are at the Canyon.
2) Take I-75 to I-10, then keep following I-10 until Phoenix, AZ. In Phoenix, we would take I-17 (or possibly route 93) north to I-40, then continue with the above directions.
From the Grand Canyon, we would go up through Las Vegas on route 93, then we have two main choices:
3) Take I-15 north through Salt Lake City, then go north (west) on I-84 through Utah and Oregon straight through to Portland. I understand this route has a couple questionable passes near Boise and La Grande where we might have to sit tight for a day or two for them to clear.
4) Take Route 95 north out of Vegas and switch over to 376 when 95 turns west (Tonopah). Then take 305 (at Austin, NV) north to I-80 (Battle Mountain), and I-80 to route 95 north again (Winnemucca). Alternately we could stay on 95 all through Nevada. Once 95 turns east in Oregon, we would take 78 west past New Princeton and take 20 west from Hines. We would then go past Bend, OR and take 20 through the mountains past Upper Soda to I-5 near Albany, then take I-5 up to Portland.
Any help with which of these (or any alternate) routes would be best and safest would be appreciated. I have driven the I-5 corridor once and the 101 path once, and I know neither is ideal in southern Oregon or northern California during the summer, let alone the winter. I'm hoping there is a route that we can take safely without being stuck for a week before going over a pass.
We will also be towing a cargo trailer. Our SUV is front-wheel drive. We don't have chains, but could get them if needed. Recommendations on where and when to get chains would be appreciated (online vs a place on the road).
I know that any recommendations need to be taken with a grain of salt, and that we need to be very mindful of weather patterns and look at the road cameras on our route.
I have been searching various sites for route ideas during November and possibly December (if the closing gets pushed back a week). There are two legs to the trip. From home to the Grand Canyon, then from the Grand Canyon to Portland. For the first leg I have two ideas:
1) Take I-75 north to I-10 west. Follow I-10 until it meets I-20 in Jackson, MS. Take I-20 until Dallas and follow the roads around it until we get on 287. Then take 287 to I-40 west until just south of the Grand Canyon. Then take local roads until we are at the Canyon.
2) Take I-75 to I-10, then keep following I-10 until Phoenix, AZ. In Phoenix, we would take I-17 (or possibly route 93) north to I-40, then continue with the above directions.
From the Grand Canyon, we would go up through Las Vegas on route 93, then we have two main choices:
3) Take I-15 north through Salt Lake City, then go north (west) on I-84 through Utah and Oregon straight through to Portland. I understand this route has a couple questionable passes near Boise and La Grande where we might have to sit tight for a day or two for them to clear.
4) Take Route 95 north out of Vegas and switch over to 376 when 95 turns west (Tonopah). Then take 305 (at Austin, NV) north to I-80 (Battle Mountain), and I-80 to route 95 north again (Winnemucca). Alternately we could stay on 95 all through Nevada. Once 95 turns east in Oregon, we would take 78 west past New Princeton and take 20 west from Hines. We would then go past Bend, OR and take 20 through the mountains past Upper Soda to I-5 near Albany, then take I-5 up to Portland.
Any help with which of these (or any alternate) routes would be best and safest would be appreciated. I have driven the I-5 corridor once and the 101 path once, and I know neither is ideal in southern Oregon or northern California during the summer, let alone the winter. I'm hoping there is a route that we can take safely without being stuck for a week before going over a pass.
Oct 16th, 2016, 12:07 PM
#2
My summer route from Las Vegas to central Oregon is through Tonopah to Fallon and then get on I-80 west through Reno and then 395 to get on 139/39 to get to Klamath Falls OR.
Take US 97 north out of K-Falls and just north of Chemult take OR Rt. 58 over to I-5 just south of Eugene.
If the weather through Susanville is horrible, stay on I-80 west to get on I-5 just north of Sacramento.
You should not need tire chains but if you do, buy a set at Les Schwab tires (many locations in NV, CA, OR, ID and WA).
If you don't open/use them, you can return them for a full refund in the spring.
It is 1107 miles from Kingman AZ to Portland using my suggested route. Please don't go by way of Boise.
Take US 97 north out of K-Falls and just north of Chemult take OR Rt. 58 over to I-5 just south of Eugene.
If the weather through Susanville is horrible, stay on I-80 west to get on I-5 just north of Sacramento.
You should not need tire chains but if you do, buy a set at Les Schwab tires (many locations in NV, CA, OR, ID and WA).
If you don't open/use them, you can return them for a full refund in the spring.
It is 1107 miles from Kingman AZ to Portland using my suggested route. Please don't go by way of Boise.
Oct 16th, 2016, 12:11 PM
#3
Do you have a phone which uses Google Maps? If you do, would that be a much more accurate way of finding out what the most CURRENT road conditions might be and then you could deviate accordingly?
I am simply ASKING this, not telling you to do it. Since applications like Google Maps have MUCH more current traffic conditions than something like MapQuest am wondering if weather conditions would also be evident, that's all.
I am simply ASKING this, not telling you to do it. Since applications like Google Maps have MUCH more current traffic conditions than something like MapQuest am wondering if weather conditions would also be evident, that's all.
Oct 16th, 2016, 12:29 PM
#4
To comment on your second part from the GC to Portland:
I've driven the various routes a number of times winter and summer, and am experienced driving in winter conditions. I'll comment in 2 posts: (1) Winter Driving and (2) Routes
In November you will be driving in a marginal season - be sure to watch the weather. Sometimes the roads aren't bad in Nov., but... This year so far winter seems to be coming early and there has already been some snow in the mountain passes of the northwest.
First:
Be aware that driving a regular car in snow takes special driving skills - coming from Florida, do you have them?
(Many of us in snow country spent part of our high school "informal kids'self ed" doing doughnuts in empty icy or snowy parking lots).
(a) Snow is not as dangerous as "black ice".
During the last leg of your trip, particularly in mid to late Nov. you are much more likely to come across black ice than snow on *any* of the potential routes. And you *often won't* see the black ice ... you'll feel it when your steering responds differently.
Hopefully your SUV has an outside temperature gauge ... watch it. If it's close to 32 or below, and especially early in the day or in shady (non-sunlight) places, and especially if the pavement seems a bit damp, be aware of potential black ice.
(b) Hauling a trailer
Any difficulty in responding to road conditions in a regular SUV will be magnified by a trailer.
(c) Eggs
The most important thing is to drive as if there is an egg under the gas pedal and another under the brake pedal. Drive as though you don't want to break those eggs. *EASE* into any breaking or acceleration). Hopefully your SUV has ABS ... if not, *softly pump* your brakes when you need to stop quickly ... on ice slamming them on hard will just lock your tires and you will slide or skid or both (and will not stop 'til you hit what you were braking for.) With a trailer this is all exponentially compounded.
(d) Skids
Even the most experienced end up in a hopefully minor unintended skid ... experience teaches you haw to safely get out of them. Best I can recommend, if you haven't corrected a skid in ice before, try to find a safe icy place and without the trailer, try it out. Essentially, turn your steering wheel in the direction of the skid momentarily til you regain control - easier said than done. But if you turn your steering wheel in the opposite direction, you will likely completely lose control.
Having said all the above, if it were me I'd still do the trip (though others will likely say don't do it.) But I don't know your driving skill, your timidity or lack thereof, nor your sense of adventure.
I've driven the various routes a number of times winter and summer, and am experienced driving in winter conditions. I'll comment in 2 posts: (1) Winter Driving and (2) Routes
In November you will be driving in a marginal season - be sure to watch the weather. Sometimes the roads aren't bad in Nov., but... This year so far winter seems to be coming early and there has already been some snow in the mountain passes of the northwest.
First:
Be aware that driving a regular car in snow takes special driving skills - coming from Florida, do you have them?
(Many of us in snow country spent part of our high school "informal kids'self ed" doing doughnuts in empty icy or snowy parking lots).
(a) Snow is not as dangerous as "black ice".
During the last leg of your trip, particularly in mid to late Nov. you are much more likely to come across black ice than snow on *any* of the potential routes. And you *often won't* see the black ice ... you'll feel it when your steering responds differently.
Hopefully your SUV has an outside temperature gauge ... watch it. If it's close to 32 or below, and especially early in the day or in shady (non-sunlight) places, and especially if the pavement seems a bit damp, be aware of potential black ice.
(b) Hauling a trailer
Any difficulty in responding to road conditions in a regular SUV will be magnified by a trailer.
(c) Eggs
The most important thing is to drive as if there is an egg under the gas pedal and another under the brake pedal. Drive as though you don't want to break those eggs. *EASE* into any breaking or acceleration). Hopefully your SUV has ABS ... if not, *softly pump* your brakes when you need to stop quickly ... on ice slamming them on hard will just lock your tires and you will slide or skid or both (and will not stop 'til you hit what you were braking for.) With a trailer this is all exponentially compounded.
(d) Skids
Even the most experienced end up in a hopefully minor unintended skid ... experience teaches you haw to safely get out of them. Best I can recommend, if you haven't corrected a skid in ice before, try to find a safe icy place and without the trailer, try it out. Essentially, turn your steering wheel in the direction of the skid momentarily til you regain control - easier said than done. But if you turn your steering wheel in the opposite direction, you will likely completely lose control.
Having said all the above, if it were me I'd still do the trip (though others will likely say don't do it.) But I don't know your driving skill, your timidity or lack thereof, nor your sense of adventure.
Oct 16th, 2016, 01:08 PM
#5
Potential routes:
Watch the weather and decide on your potential route at the last minute before leaving GC. Sometimes any of the routes will be perfectly clear while the others are icy or snowy.
Salt Lake City Route
IMHO, for someone with little winter driving experience pulling a trailer, I'd recommend your Salt Lake City route. (If you are comfortable driving in snow, my recommendation would be different.) It's drier that way and least likely to have snow and likely less black ice.
You are right that the area between Baker OR and Pendleton OR is mountainous, with steep grades and chance of snow or ice ... but ... the grades are less steep and the chance of snow are ice are much less that way than any of the other routes.
Do be aware that I-84 through the Columbia Gorge between The Dalles and Portland is notorious for occasional ice storms a few times a winter that totally close the road. It's *very* unlikely you'll come across them in Nov. or *early* Dec., but conceivably possible.
IMHO the most difficult route would be the 95 or 97 or 395 routes through NV. and Bend. (Mind you, I'd find that route fun and it would be preferable for me, but I've driven winter conditions all my life.)
Through Nevada you will experience a number of significant grades and curvy roads. You could experience black ice and maybe even snow. Especially from Bend across the Cascades to either Albany or Salem or Portland you will likely come across snow and will come across worse grades than the SLC route.
IMHO I''5 would also be a good possibility to consider. Though in the Central Valley you could come cross *dense* Thule fog in places ... dense enough that you'd have to stop for a day or two and wait it out.
But the grades aren't too bad (though there are significant grades), even in the mountains between Redding CA and Medford OR (or the less significant mtns. continuing north to Roseburg OR)
A few final considerations:
Dry snow is much easier to drive in than wet snow (which tends to compact down to ice). In general, any snow you come across in the Cascades and Sierra will tend to be wetter, and snow to the east will be drier. (That's one of the reasons I'd recommend the SLC route).
I-84 and I-5 are the major heavily traveled routes, so will have good maintenance and relatively good snow removal in most conditions.
I heartily endorse Les Schwab for chains as mentioned above. It's always good to pick up chains at a store to make sure they fit your vehicle and tires. (Chains don't fit in the weel well of some front wheel drive vehicles). And its likely wist to use chain tighteners. And definitely, after you get them, try putting chains on in a comfortable place before you need them. Nothing is worse than trying to put unfamiliar chains on for the first time in the snow when your fingers are going numb from the cold while you are trying to read the instructions.
Watch the weather and decide on your potential route at the last minute before leaving GC. Sometimes any of the routes will be perfectly clear while the others are icy or snowy.
Salt Lake City Route
IMHO, for someone with little winter driving experience pulling a trailer, I'd recommend your Salt Lake City route. (If you are comfortable driving in snow, my recommendation would be different.) It's drier that way and least likely to have snow and likely less black ice.
You are right that the area between Baker OR and Pendleton OR is mountainous, with steep grades and chance of snow or ice ... but ... the grades are less steep and the chance of snow are ice are much less that way than any of the other routes.
Do be aware that I-84 through the Columbia Gorge between The Dalles and Portland is notorious for occasional ice storms a few times a winter that totally close the road. It's *very* unlikely you'll come across them in Nov. or *early* Dec., but conceivably possible.
IMHO the most difficult route would be the 95 or 97 or 395 routes through NV. and Bend. (Mind you, I'd find that route fun and it would be preferable for me, but I've driven winter conditions all my life.)
Through Nevada you will experience a number of significant grades and curvy roads. You could experience black ice and maybe even snow. Especially from Bend across the Cascades to either Albany or Salem or Portland you will likely come across snow and will come across worse grades than the SLC route.
IMHO I''5 would also be a good possibility to consider. Though in the Central Valley you could come cross *dense* Thule fog in places ... dense enough that you'd have to stop for a day or two and wait it out.
But the grades aren't too bad (though there are significant grades), even in the mountains between Redding CA and Medford OR (or the less significant mtns. continuing north to Roseburg OR)
A few final considerations:
Dry snow is much easier to drive in than wet snow (which tends to compact down to ice). In general, any snow you come across in the Cascades and Sierra will tend to be wetter, and snow to the east will be drier. (That's one of the reasons I'd recommend the SLC route).
I-84 and I-5 are the major heavily traveled routes, so will have good maintenance and relatively good snow removal in most conditions.
I heartily endorse Les Schwab for chains as mentioned above. It's always good to pick up chains at a store to make sure they fit your vehicle and tires. (Chains don't fit in the weel well of some front wheel drive vehicles). And its likely wist to use chain tighteners. And definitely, after you get them, try putting chains on in a comfortable place before you need them. Nothing is worse than trying to put unfamiliar chains on for the first time in the snow when your fingers are going numb from the cold while you are trying to read the instructions.
Oct 16th, 2016, 01:15 PM
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How big a cargo trailer? If there is that much snow on a road that requires chains I suggest holing up in a motel until the roads are clear.
One more question--can you back a trailer? I can't and I have driven with them twice and made sure I could make all right turns and a drive through at any motel. Jusst sayin'.
One more question--can you back a trailer? I can't and I have driven with them twice and made sure I could make all right turns and a drive through at any motel. Jusst sayin'.
Oct 16th, 2016, 01:30 PM
#7
PS
In addition to google maps and road reports / cameras, I often use google earth and especially its street view to get a great idea of the nature of the route.
Les Schwab is located throughout the NW, as far south as Nevada and Utah.
They have a good site on winter driving and chains at https://www.lesschwab.com/resources/winter-driving
And if you're lucky, you won't come across a bit of snow on the road in Nov.(but there will be some along side the road and likely be some on the mountain passes - at least, I hope so - I'm impatiently awaiting skiing). But you likely will come across patches of black ice.
In addition to google maps and road reports / cameras, I often use google earth and especially its street view to get a great idea of the nature of the route.
Les Schwab is located throughout the NW, as far south as Nevada and Utah.
They have a good site on winter driving and chains at https://www.lesschwab.com/resources/winter-driving
And if you're lucky, you won't come across a bit of snow on the road in Nov.(but there will be some along side the road and likely be some on the mountain passes - at least, I hope so - I'm impatiently awaiting skiing). But you likely will come across patches of black ice.
Oct 16th, 2016, 01:44 PM
#8
Another comment:
I drive with M+S tires year round, better than all season radials in rain and much much better in snow or ice. Unless you were going to drive a lot in cold and mountains, I'd not use full-on winter tires. But I'd definitely use something superior to normal all-season radials. With M+S or winter tires you can often avoid putting on chains.
For info re OR state laws about chains and tires, and about driving in winter, see:
https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/COMM/Pag...erdriving.aspx
https://tripcheck.com/pdfs/27537_Win..._Guide-web.pdf
and
http://exchange.aaa.com/safety/roadw.../#.WAPy4ugrJTc
I drive with M+S tires year round, better than all season radials in rain and much much better in snow or ice. Unless you were going to drive a lot in cold and mountains, I'd not use full-on winter tires. But I'd definitely use something superior to normal all-season radials. With M+S or winter tires you can often avoid putting on chains.
For info re OR state laws about chains and tires, and about driving in winter, see:
https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/COMM/Pag...erdriving.aspx
https://tripcheck.com/pdfs/27537_Win..._Guide-web.pdf
and
http://exchange.aaa.com/safety/roadw.../#.WAPy4ugrJTc
Oct 16th, 2016, 09:03 PM
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Thank you for all the suggestions and replies. I grew up in snow country before moving down to Florida, so I learned to drive in snow. It wasn't mountain country, though, so I never needed chains, even though I generally know how to use them. I definitely agree about wet vs dry snow. The bigger problem with the dry snow is hiding black ice.
I have driven with trailers as well, and can back them up when needed, but I have never driven with one in the snow.
The trailer is 12 feet long, so shorter than our SUV, but it is slightly taller.
The SUV has M+S tires on it already. The rains here in Florida make any other tires a bad choice anyway.
We do have phones with Google Maps and plan to use them, but we want to avoid the most difficult routes.
One further question, probably mainly aimed at tomfuller: Your route through Klamath Falls looks like it would not be bad at all. Am I correct in assuming that 58 isn't a scary pass? One of my reservations about getting on I-5 north of Sacramento is that the wide open spaces don't leave much cover from high winds, and I know that the area around Grant's Pass is sometimes closed during the winter. Obviously, I don't have much experience in the area, which is why I'm asking.
I have driven with trailers as well, and can back them up when needed, but I have never driven with one in the snow.
The trailer is 12 feet long, so shorter than our SUV, but it is slightly taller.
The SUV has M+S tires on it already. The rains here in Florida make any other tires a bad choice anyway.
We do have phones with Google Maps and plan to use them, but we want to avoid the most difficult routes.
One further question, probably mainly aimed at tomfuller: Your route through Klamath Falls looks like it would not be bad at all. Am I correct in assuming that 58 isn't a scary pass? One of my reservations about getting on I-5 north of Sacramento is that the wide open spaces don't leave much cover from high winds, and I know that the area around Grant's Pass is sometimes closed during the winter. Obviously, I don't have much experience in the area, which is why I'm asking.
Oct 17th, 2016, 07:42 AM
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rodtag21107-20. Rated as the best of the best here: http://bestreviews.com/best-snow-chains. We've owned and used them on our cars for as long as they've been manufacturing them. Les Schwab would be a good suggestion if you thought you might only temporarily need chains, but if you're moving to Portland, you'll eventually want to buy and keep a set, so you may as well buy the best now.
Oct 17th, 2016, 07:56 AM
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....If there is that much snow on a road that requires chains I suggest holing up in a motel until the roads are clear.....
I agree with Gretchen as resident of Colorado. Don't bother to buy chains. If chains are required - park it. Semi don't jack knife going up hill. It is downhill with uncontrollable dead weight pushing you. And brakes on rented trailers, if you have them, are notoriously bad.
And probability of hitting really bad weather is small so I would just planning according and take it easy.
I agree with Gretchen as resident of Colorado. Don't bother to buy chains. If chains are required - park it. Semi don't jack knife going up hill. It is downhill with uncontrollable dead weight pushing you. And brakes on rented trailers, if you have them, are notoriously bad.
And probability of hitting really bad weather is small so I would just planning according and take it easy.
Oct 17th, 2016, 07:57 AM
#12
Make your decision as to whether you want to go through K-Falls or up I-5 from Sacramento when you get to Reno.
ODot takes good care of 58 over Willamette Pass when it snows.
The Santiam Pass (US 20) did have a little snow on it last night.
Another option from K-Falls is Rt. 140 west to I-5.
ODot takes good care of 58 over Willamette Pass when it snows.
The Santiam Pass (US 20) did have a little snow on it last night.
Another option from K-Falls is Rt. 140 west to I-5.
Oct 17th, 2016, 09:47 AM
#13
Re chains: do get them.
Dtiving in the NW is different from Colorado. The roads over mountain passes are often compact snow and ice for *very* extended times, not just during blizzards or snowstorms.
State law in Oregon and several others states requires you to carry chains over many mountain passes in many conditions.
Also, its equally important and required to have chains on the trailer for the reasons fmpden suggests above
See:
https://tripcheck.com/Pages/minimum-...quirements.asp
Living in Oregon, unless you have 4 wheel drive, if you want to get into or through the mountains in winter, you'll want chains eventually anyway, unless you eventually decide to get AWD and 4WD
Dtiving in the NW is different from Colorado. The roads over mountain passes are often compact snow and ice for *very* extended times, not just during blizzards or snowstorms.
State law in Oregon and several others states requires you to carry chains over many mountain passes in many conditions.
Also, its equally important and required to have chains on the trailer for the reasons fmpden suggests above
See:
https://tripcheck.com/Pages/minimum-...quirements.asp
Living in Oregon, unless you have 4 wheel drive, if you want to get into or through the mountains in winter, you'll want chains eventually anyway, unless you eventually decide to get AWD and 4WD
Oct 17th, 2016, 09:52 AM
#14
PS
If you're comfortable driving in snow, then yes, use the route Tom Fuller recommends.
In November its unlikely you'll come across severe conditions, but by Thanksgiving and definitely early October, its increasingly likely. (The hope around here is to have ski areas open by Thanksgiving - often that is a vain hope, but since its already snowed a bit over the Cascades, this year hopefully may be a snowy one.)
If you're comfortable driving in snow, then yes, use the route Tom Fuller recommends.
In November its unlikely you'll come across severe conditions, but by Thanksgiving and definitely early October, its increasingly likely. (The hope around here is to have ski areas open by Thanksgiving - often that is a vain hope, but since its already snowed a bit over the Cascades, this year hopefully may be a snowy one.)
Oct 17th, 2016, 07:07 PM
#16
I'd recommend using I-40, for GC. YOU could stay in Williams, which is about an hour or 1.5 to the south rim. There is also the GC Railway from Williams to the south rim, should it be one of the occasional snow days.
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