flatfeet

mwillems, I was the poster who started the thread, and never intended to lecture visitors. If it came across that way, I'm sincerely sorry. Thought I made it clear that I wanted visitors to have a good time here and understand why the locals could be impatient with them, that's why I used the highway analogies so visitors from non-walking cities can see things from our perspectives and understand our frustrations.

BTW, I have also lived and worked in Toronto for 3 years and find NYC faster but not ruder. I find many visiotrs tend to mistake impatience with genuine rudeness, when new yorkers really are not rude by nature. Again offering some insight on that impatience was the intent of my original post.

Here's a global study conducted by Reader's Digest and published in Canada naming NYC the most courteous big city in the world.
http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/2006/07/polite.php

mwillems

Oh, you did not yourself come across that way - but NYC itself often does. There is definitely an assumption in NYC that tourists just have to know how things work (like "pay double the cost of a taxi for going .5 mile outside the airport", or "pay $15 extra on top of the tolls for going across to NJ" - or as you say, this thing about the taxi lights and about going off duty - go figure).

Personally, I don't think Canada is very polite, although most Canadians do seem to think so. I can only imagine that most of them have not, like me, worked in 31 countries. Comparison works wonders when you're comparing!

mwillems

..but that is a very amusing survey, indeed. And well done: Not scientific perhaps, but very interesting. And I've no reason to doubt it. Nor am I surprised to see that Amsterdam scores very badly - at the same time, having lived both there and here, I can say that where it counts, the Dutch are quite good. Maybe just not big on opening doors.

But I always discount what people say about their own countries so you shoudl discount that.

Ask anyone "who has the best TV in the world",a nd the Germans will swear it is German TV that is best; the English KNOW that it is English TV; Americans of course know it is THEIRS, and so on.

Like health systems, too: "ours is the best" applies to almost every country.

stevesmoker

I've visited Manhattan three times as a tourist in the last four years. Each trip I received unsolicited and welcomed help when trying to figure out a map, a subway stop, etc. (I do my best to step to the side when I have to stop to get bearings. I have seen plenty rudely oblivious tourists in this regard) I am reasonably well traveled and have never received as much help in another city at home or abroad. I have been pleasantly surprised by NY'ers. Kudos NYC!

SS

walkinaround

new york is just like any other big city. i agree, it's annoying to be lectured on special rules and codes. real city people know that city living necessitates dealing with all types of people- fast, slow, disabled, lost locals, lost tourists, drunks, people with children, gangs, people in hurry, people out walking dogs, tourists, etc.

those who fruitlessly pronounce codes for the rest of the world to follow when visiting their city probably would be better off living in a more predictable environment like a small town where everyone knows everyone and everyone knows that mrs smithers always stops to put on her gloves as she exits the bank.

cities are unpredictable by nature...lecturing visitors on how to walk correctly doesn't paint new yorkers in a very good light.

toedtoes

Having never been to New York (at least not yet), I read this entire thread with no idea of what walking in Manhattan is really like.

Now that I've read it, I think I can safely assume it is the same as in any other city I've been to with at least 3 times as many people.

The behaviors mentioned here are the same that I get irritated in anywhere I go - blocking entrances/exits, making it impossible to pass by you on the sidewalk, etc.

The suggestions seem to be common courtesy - let people out before going in, move out of the way of others, etc.

I don't find anything rude in any of it. However, I do think that locals are just as likely to do the wrong thing as tourists, just maybe not ALL the wrong things.

flatfeet

Walkinaround, how is asking people not to walk 5-across and blocking the whole sidewalk qualify as "special rules and codes"?

As I said I never meant to lecture or to fruitlessly pronounce codes as you called it. I think traveling and meeting people from other places is about understanding each other. I had the feeling that visitors didn't even realize they were blocking the sidewalk, otherwise they wouldn't have done it. So I was just trying to offer local insight on that and help us all get along better. I think quietly staying disgruntled instead of trying to discuss and resolve conflicts as you suggested is rather unworldly and utterly un-New York!

jodeenyc

I love the many different reactions to this thread. Someone should make this site their college psych assignment.

walkinaround

>>>>>
I think quietly staying disgruntled instead of trying to discuss and resolve conflicts as you suggested is rather unworldly and utterly un-New York!
>>>>>

this goes precisely with my point...if you get 'disgruntled' and have to vent to avoid staying disgruntled because of the way people walk and you perceive such things as 'conflicts', i think it's time to move out of the city.

do i ever get annoyed with people's behaviours? of course i do. but i think this is the difference between city dwellers and everyone else...it rolls off of us...we don't get or stay disgruntled, we don't need to vent about it, and it takes a lot more than a pavement hogger to start a conflict! in fact, i think this way of dealing with people is one of the strong defining characteristics of city life.

most city people i know just get on with dealing with different people with different behaviours...we don't appeal for everyone to follow a set a rules and codes. this is futile and is just the opposite of what city life stands for, IMO.

new york, are you really turning this soft???

kirbyks

" But you do have highways at home, yes? Just imagine if 5 cars line up in a row going 30 miles an hr and blocking all other cars from passing."

Happens in MN all the time. Well maybe not 30, but 5-10 mph under the limit.

" Again, this is exactly like if a car stops in the middle of a highway without warning."

I've seen that too.

Vittrad

stevesmoker - I also received unsolicited and helpful advice once while standing (aside mind you) on the street in Manhattan looking at a guidebook trying to figure out where to each lunch when an elderly woman in a thick Brooklyn accent asked what I was doing and I said 'looking for lunch, do you know of a good spot'. She pointed to a little Bistro off on a side street and said 'go there, excellent food' and marched off. I did, and she was right, the food was great, but I have no idea what the name of the restaurant was.

michelleNYC

mwillems -- The people in NYC are more rude than those in Hong Kong??? Especially when walking around??? Oh my gosh... I must respectfully disagree. I found it to be more "trample or be trampled"! Plus it's lovely when people bump into you, nearly knocking you over, and don't remotely bother to apologize!!

Gekko

When you're driving your rental car in San Francisco and get lost, you don't stop in the middle of the road to check your map. Right? You pull over to the side.

Sidewalks are our road here in Manhattan. If you don't get the analogy, I rest my case.

claire_bluesky

Okay, this may a bit off topic, or perhaps not, but this recent Wash Post article came to mind as I was reading this thread (including that global study) - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...040401721.html
Do you think you would stop, slow down, or plow ahead?

toedtoes

Well, at 7:51 a.m. on a workday morning, I'd keep walking. I don't see my boss accepting my being late because I "just had to stop and listen to this amazing violinist on the street". However, at 5:02 p.m., I would definitely stop to listen.

tampatwo

I read this a few days ago. I attend concerts regularly and had seen Joshua Bell perform only a few months ago. I wouldn't have noticed who he was if I was on my way to work no matter how brilliantly he played. I might have stopped if it had been lunch hour..but even then I might not have realized who he was.

NeoPatrick

Gekko, you sure are confusing me. Of course I get your analogy. That was my point. I'm irritated in NYC by locals talking on their phones who stop dead in the tracks. Yet your post after it seemed to indicate that you see nothing wrong with it -- that people in cars in other places also talk on phones. Sure they do, but that doesn't mean they should stop dead in their tracks in the middle of traffic. So why when you were seemingly arguing against my point, did you say, "live here and THEN complain"? We seem to agree on the basic point, but yet you seem to indicate I had no right to complain about people doing what you now mention with an "I rest my case".
Why am I so confused by your changing horses in mid stream here?

OO

What a powerful article claire_bluesky! Thank you so much for providing the link. It was long--as I looked I thought, oh, too long, but I'm so glad I stayed with it to the end.

These paragraphs grabbed me..did you notice the children who pulled back and wanted to stop? "The poet Billy Collins once laughingly observed that all babies are born with a knowledge of poetry, because the lub-dub of the mother's heart is in iambic meter. Then, Collins said, life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us. It may be true with music, too.

There was no ethnic or demographic pattern to distinguish the people who stayed to watch Bell, or the ones who gave money, from that vast majority who hurried on past, unheeding. Whites, blacks and Asians, young and old, men and women, were represented in all three groups. But the behavior of one demographic remained absolutely consistent. Every single time a child walked past, he or she tried to stop and watch. And every single time, a parent scooted the kid away.

I haven't posted to this thread since my first comment, but have been bothered by it...something I couldn't quite put my finger on. I thought perhaps it was the air of superiority that seemed to waft by occasionally on a topic about problems that are every tourism city's problems, not indigenous to NY. You don't realize that? The cab info, absolutely helpful...otherwise you could be talking about virtually any city in the world. But perhaps the behavior described in the article, which is an underlying current here, is also part of what has bothered me.

I really hope you all will read the article, long as it is. Take a break from your day and think about what it says. Everyone's life is too busy and hectic, not just NYC. We all need to slow down some...

You don't need to recognize the musician, that was not the point, but the beauty that you were passing by without missing a beat.

What is this life if, full of care,

We have no time to stand and stare.

claire_bluesky

OO, It is an amazing, maybe even heartbreaking story, but it is good to reflect.