<I think some of you need to get over yourselves, your false statemets, and your attitude>. AMEN! Thank you Patrick for posting that.

Tripadvisor.com now has a section for "Vacation Rentals" that may help renters <b>use their heads and decide for themselves</b> if they want to rent a specific property. I also encourage people to leave objective reviews there after your stay so others can benefit from your experience.

None of the apartments on Trip Advisor or VRBO are vetted. I stand by my statements. They are either generally scams and/or illegal. The legitimate listings there are for places like the Affinias or RCA apart-hotels.

It is absurd to keep pushing visitors to this area into doing the unethical or illegal.

I don't encourage visitors to buy illegal knock-off purses here either.

If you have the time, read this collection of Trip Advisor posts put together by the Destination Experts on the TA NYC forum:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic..._New_York.html

Since you brought up Trip Advisor, there's more lively discussion about their policies here:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic..._New_York.html

And since knowledge is power, a TA discussion regarding the reliability of FlipKey advertised (not vetted) properties ensues here:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic....html#20614476

Bowsprit, Give up, I did. You're information is absolutely correct, but There are some people who just think they know it all and no amount of information or proof will ever make them change their minds.

Those truly curious about the practice of renting an apartment in NYC can read as much as they like about the process while perusing the Trip Advisor links I provided. I included the links for those who are exploring their options, not to convince the know it alls of anything.

(don't give up, by the way. the experts, regulars and lawyers posting on the New York City forum at TA won't give up either.)

One of my kids rented an apartment for a long weekend in Manhattan about 6 years ago. There was a fire in one of the apartments in the building she was staying in. There weren't any smoke alarms. Someone running out of the building saw their small bag of garbage in the hallway waiting to be disposed of the next day. He realized there Might Be Someone in the Apartment That Had Been Empty for 4 Months and practically knocked the door down to alert the two girls. Not only were there no smoke alarms, the fire escape stairs didn't work from the 4th floor. It was impossible to tell if they worked from my daughter's 5th floor rental apartment because the windows leading to the fire escape had been nailed shut. It turned out to be an illegally rented apartment, completely out of code and without the standard measures for safety. Luckily, nobody was hurt.

I feel fairly passionate about the practice of illegal rentals in NYC. Everyone should. These owners, landlords and managers don't care where they take their money and advertisers don't care about the status of these apartments either. Money is the bottom line here for both.

The people promoting these places on these forums should give it up and those providing access to an apartment that has been illegally rented should be fined. They aren't fined because the problem is absolutely huge in NYC and is overwhelming housing authorities. People 'in the know' can help by posting the dangers here, so don't give up.

Bowspirit, I didn't mean to question your passion against illegal sublets, but that does not give you the "right" to spew such a totally wrong statement as insisting that there is NO SUCH THING AS A LEGAL SHORT TERM RENTAL IN NYC --- something you clearly stated. Nor does it give you the right to call several very legitimate and legal agencies who specialize in short term Manhattan rentals "illegal" or "scams". That is just plain wrong.

A number of years ago a huge old hotel was converted to Manhattan Executive rentals (and part of the same building became the Michelangelo Hotel0. The Executive rentals were designed, individually sold, and are still maintained for the primary purpose of short term furnished rental apartments. There is nothing illegal about them, nor are they a scam by any of the several major agencies which handle those TOTALLY legal short term rentals. There are numerous other such projects in Manhattan. Long time successful companies like Oakwood Apartments would be more than a little surprised to hear you tell the world that they are a scam -- there is nothing scam-like about their short term rental program in Manhattan which is quite huge, successful, and 100% legal.

You mentioned the "know it alls". My personal definition of a "know it all"? Someone who insists that ALL short term rentals in NYC are either illegal or scams. Something which is totally not true.

Again, you have every right to complain about illegal sublets, but to claim that there is no such thing as legal or "non-scam" short term rentals in NYC is just not within reason or honesty.

SusieQQ, sorry I missed your post. Was it by any chance directed partially at me? In any case you too are wrong to agree with the blatantly wrong statement: "Generally speaking: Most NYC SHORT TERM rentals are illegal. The rest are scams."

In case you can't interpret it, that clearly says that all NYC short term rentals which aren't illegal ARE scams. Do you honestly believe that? It would be one thing to say "most are illegal" but it is totally wrong to say that all the ones which aren't illegal ARE scams.

Interpret it anyway you like. My prior comments were not directed at your skewed view at all, NeoPatrick. The following are:

Those apartments that aren't illegal are scams. Read the TA threads.

Encourage visitors to get a legitimate room and stop encouraging visitors to put themselves at risk or to break the laws of the city. That's the responsible thing to do.

Oh, and by the way: Oakwood Apartments are not able to rent their apartments for less than a month. Rentals for less than a month are what are considered short-term rentals and are generally speaking illegal. Oakwood rentals, available for month long stays, are perfectly fine if all other rental conditions are met.

Lastly: Here's a selection of terrific 'apartment-like' b & b's that are in smaller, owner occupied buildings:


www.wymanhouse.com

west-eleventh.com

1871house.com

milburnhotel.com

excelsiorhotelny.com

Enjoy New York City. It's one of the finest cities in the world.

Maybe you all should take your incessant bickering to the Lounge or something.

Oh, MikeT, there's more of the same ilk on another NY thread:

http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...omment-6374990

Bowsprit, you might want to take a look at the Excelsior Hotel, it's not a b&b in a smaller owner-occupied building. www.excelsiorhotelny.com

Maybe for more fun and excitiment we can discuss why people want to see Times Square, flip flops, or the bedbug problem on the Upper East Side? That should stir things up!

"Those apartments that aren't illegal are scams."

This clearly SAYS that there is no such thing as legal short term rentals in NYC that aren't also scams.

Simply an amazingly WRONG statement. But if you are that upset about it, go ahead and convince yourself that is a true statement, however wrong it is.

Some people should really learn the difference between words like "most" and "all" or using phrases that can only be interpreted as ALL.

By the way, Oakwood does sometimes rent for less than a month -- but of course you're sure they are a scam so we won't talk about them. And for the record, most people consider a one month rental -- short term. Some sites even define their "short term rentals" as being one month minimums. But then "know-it-alls" have different definitions than the companies who actually rent them.

Excelsior doesn't belong in that list. Sorry about that.

The laws are ambiguous: not all short term rentals are illegal AND there are some short-term rentals that are illegal. Are we clear? :-)

Some information
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/artic...s-on-the-table

http://www.gothamgazette.com/article...100316/10/3214

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/hotel...-rentals_N.htm

Conversely, and generally speaking, most legitimate hotel room reservation terms and conditions are unambiguous. That's crystal. :)