Mama to Manhattan, Strategy #3
 

Starrs is gonna kill me.

I'm taking my 70 yo mom and her best friend to New York mid-August. I've received a lot of great advice here already -- and I probably should have taken it as soon as it was offered. I didn't though. And then, when I did try to book the hotels that were recommended for us, I was stymied by a weird credit card glitch.

I was updating Mom on our plans and venting a little frustration when I said, "I'm tempted to go with our original plan, stay just two nights, and book something right in Times Square if I can find one that my card will work on."

Mom said, "Oh," then "OH!" It was obvious that she was excited about the possibility of staying right in Times Square, even after I told her that everyone says it's loud and chaotic. So this morning I booked a room at the Marriott Marquis. The beds aren't queens, they're doubles -- but there's a sofa bed in the room too. And there's no such thing as a free, er, breakfast -- but our room has a view of Times Square. And since my cousin works for the Marriott chain I'm going to see if she can arrange any perks for her favorite auntie ;)

Now I need help modifying the rest of our itenerary though. On Mom's NY bucket list:
Empire State Bldg (now changed to TOTR w her OK)
21 Club
Hotel Carlyle (dinner or drinks - a shout out to hometown hero Bobby Short)
Statue of Liberty
Broadway Show
Tour thing

We arrive at 6:35 PM on Friday, leave at 3:45 PM on Sunday. Here's what I'm thinking:
Fri: Check in to hotel, grab quick dinner, TOTR at sunset, drinks at 21
Sat: Marvelous Manhattan tour 9AM-3PM, freshen up, dinner at Carlyle, Anything Goes
Sun: Cab to Staten Island ferry, John's Pizza, souvenir shopping, back to Penn Station

Questions:
Quick meal options between Times Square and TOTR?
Is it possible to just show up for drinks at 21 Club at 10PM-ish on a Friday night?
Cheap/good breakfast spots in/near Times Square?
What time to schedule reservations at the Carlyle before the show on Saturday?
Best souvenir shopping?
Anything else I can/should fit in without wearing the ladies out?

Thank you again for all your help. I wish all of you could hear the smile in Mom's voice each time we talk about this trip.

When you say arrive at 6:35, is that at the airport or is that at the hotel? Given the time to get into the city, you may find that you don't have enough time to have dinner before TOTR

Sunset in NY in August is 8 pm or even a little earlier. If your plane arrives at 6:35 (even if it arrives on time) you will barely have time to get to the city, check in, dump stuff at your hotel and head straight to ToTR. If the plane is late you will have a big rush. And you won;t have time to eat before hand. You will need to go right to ToTR and have dinner at 9 pm.

The Carlyle isn;t near the theater and you're going to have to make reservations for when it opens - 6 pm - to have a chance to eat and get out in time for the 8 pm curtain. I would tell the doorman when you enter that you will need a cab at 7:30 (and then will have to kind of rush dinner) to get to the theater and find your seats. (If I remember your mom and her friend are not really fast on their feet,) And that's assuming you mean the Carlyle Restaurant. Bobby Short appeared in the Cafe - and I'm not aware that they open early enough to eat before a show. I cant get the online reservation service to give me a time that early. They may not open in time for you to eat there before a show (since it's really a cafe for entertainment - with the early show like 9 pm).

I believe the OP is arriving by Amtrak train.

I agree about dinner at the Carlyle before a Broadway show . . . the Carlyle restaurant doesn't start serving dinner until 6PM. You will probably have to battle crosstown traffic in a taxi through the theater district on a Saturday night. I don't think you have time to do this. Maybe do the afternoon tea instead, though it is in The Gallery and Mr Short played at the Cafe Carlyle. Bemelmen's serves snacks only.

Hmmm ...

Yes, ellen, we're arriving by train at Penn Station.

And, oh wow, the sun sets nearly an hour later here in Indiana at that time of year. That will definitely make things tight. Maybe we should have a sandwich while we're still on the train?

How about this switch:
Drinks/Snacks at Bemelman's bar Friday after TOTR, dinner at 21 on Saturday before the show?

The reason sunset is different is that NY is on the easternmost side of the Eastern Time Zone while Indiana is on the Westernmost side of the time zone. Its the same for here (Connecticut) and my parents on the Gulf Coast in FL.

Even Amtrak may be late but at least you are arriving in the heart of the city.

Sorry - if you are taking the train from Indiana you should really check out the usual arrival times. Trains in the NE corridor are usually on time more or less (15 minutes or so). But other trains can be late - as in hours late. (It once took my uncle more than 5 hours from DC to VA - a trip that would be 2 hours by car) - just due to the train moving at about 20 mph the whole time.

I would definitely assume that the train will be late - and not count on doing anything at 8 pm.

You can certainly do dinner at 21 - tell them you're going to a show and they will get you out in time. Also, since they are in the theater district they start serving early - 5:30 in the afternoon I believe - so you can eat very early if you want and not have to rush.

Several suggestions, if I may:

21 Club on Saturday: Visit www.villagevines.com and book your reservation through that site (you'll need to sign up for a free membership). For a $10 booking fee, they offer 30% off your entire bill, including food and beverages. Tax is calculated on the reduced total. Be sure to tip on the pre-discounted amount. (This really works; our recent post-Met Opera dinner at Le Cirque was discounted 25%, whopping $350 for our party of ten.)

By the way, 21 is accustomed to getting people out in time for an 8:00 curtain. (We go before Carnegie Hall concerts.) Just be sure to book at 5:00 or 5:30 and tell them (if they don't ask) that you need to leave by 7:30. Their doorman may be able to hail a theater-bound (124 W 43) cab for you, especially if you slip him, say, $10 or so. Incidentally, they have a high-value, reasonably priced, pre-theater prix-fixe menu.

The Carlyle on Friday: I'd suggest drinks in Bemelman's Bar. Dinner at the Carlyle Dining Room, while good, is not great. At those prices, you can do a lot better elsewhere. Bobby Short, sorely missed, performed for two extended stays a year in the Café Carlyle, across the hall from Bemelman's. I don't think you can make a reservation at Bemelman's for drinks and there may be a bit of a wait, but it's worth it--it's a very classy place. Afterwards, you can cab to any of the many, many eating places New York has to offer, in any price range and with any cuisine you like.

If, as has been suggested, your train arrives late, perhaps you could get to the Top of the Rock first thing Sunday morning instead of late Friday afternoon, then head down to the Battery for the Staten Island Ferry ride to see Miss Liberty.

You can have breakfast at Junior's, across the street (south side) from your hotel. Or cafe Edison.

tchoiniere: It makes sense that the sun would set earlier the further east one is but I'd never really thought about it before. Thanks for the explanation though.

nytraveler: I've taken this same train between n.e. Indiana and Chicago several times. I've also picked up/dropped off friends who took the train to PA and back. The only other Amtrak experience I have is the time I took the train from DC to New Jersey. Maybe I've been extraordinarily lucky but all the trains were either on time or very nearly so. Thanks for the heads up.

bspielman: Signed up for Village Vines. Definitely will book our reservation for 21 through them. I LOVE a bargain! How does this doorman thing work? Do I slip him the $10 when we arrive or when we're ready to leave. And, how *exactly* does one do the slipping? Is it like in the movies, where one asks for something, then raises an eyebrow, then holds out ones' hand with the cash palmed inside?

Also, I'm now planning on the Carlyle for Friday. I think we'll have a sandwich on the train, then head for Bemelman's after we check into the hotel. Hoping to get our drink on and get out of there before the $25pp cover charge takes effect at 9:30. I wonder if that's doable if we decide to eat in the bar?

Doug_Stallings: Our tour leaves Saturday 9AM from the Marriott Marquis. Juniors or Cafe Edison? Also, have you eaten at the Westville restaurant in Chelsea? The reason I ask is -- Mom and her friend live in a small town called Westville in Illinois. I thought it might be fun to "eat in Westville" in New York. If we do this, we'll likely do the Sunday brunch at 10AM after the Staten Island Ferry. Mom will have to have something before we leave the hotel that morning though. Where can I pick up bagels and fruit the day before?

mclaurie suggested on a different thread that we will need to "dress appropriately" for 21. I'm planning on a plain black skirt, dressy blouse and open toe sandals. Mom's got some kind of grey linen-y pant suit in mind for herself. I hope those will do? What kind of advice should I give Mom's bff, Gladys? I don't think I've ever seen her in anything besides "mom jeans" and a camp shirt, lol.

One more thing (for now) how can I work pizza into this plan?

Jeans - esp on a lady of mature years - is definitely not appropriate for 21 (also not allowed - and men have to wear jackets per their web site). It is not required to be "dressy" - a lot of people go after work so you don;t need to do the "little black dress" routine - although a lot of people do - but you can't be super casual.

At a minimum it would require some sort of tailored pant suit and real shoes with perhaps a pretty scarf or some jewelry to make it a little more pulled together.

Also - although I didn't note the details for the Carlyle - the dress expected would be the same.

These are upscale/expensive and traditional places - not new and trendy where you can wear any random thing.

Real shoes? Do dressy (but open-toe) sandals count?

Re tipping a doorman at a restaurant or a hotel: Once he has performed the service for you (such as hailing a cab), hand him a five or ten and thank him for helping you. It's as simple as that. These people, for the most part, don't have their hands out waiting for tips, but they appreciate them just the same. And they generally help people whether they receive a tip or not.

Jeans, tee-shirts and sandals are not appropriate attire at "21" or The Carlyle.

Ten bucks for hailing a cab? Not me..no way. I'd give a few bucks tip and call it a day.

Also: What you and your mother have planned to wear to 21 is fine, including your sandals. Your mom's friend will be inappropriately dressed at 21 if she wears her jeans and camp shirt.

Sandals are fine just don't wear flip flops, Birks or Crocs when you go out to dinner!

Real sandals are fine. No one has a problem with toes - but flip flops, Crocs or similar would be out of place.

And for hailing a cab a couple of dollars is enough.

When bspielman wrote about tipping at 21, it meant that you tip the WAITER on the pre-discounted amount rather than the discounted amount. Not the doorman, host, etc. You just arrive with your reservation at the restaurant, are greeted by the host/hostess, and are seated. No tipping required, and frankly you can probably just walk to the curb outside and find a cab readily (or walk up to the closest avenue, which is not at all far, and get one easily).

At a hotel, when someone hails a cab for you, it's sufficient to give no more than $2 or $3 unless you're staying at the Carlyle or Pierre or Four Seasons, where $5 might be more appropriate. But in Times Square, it's hard to find a cab at all. The Marriott Marquis has an underpass, where you can often get one, or you can just walk over to 8th Avenue. It's very hard to hail a taxi on Broadway, especially at that location.

Junior's opens at 6:30 am, so I'd probably do breakfast there before a 9am tour since it's so convenient to the Marriott Marquis and since there will be absolutely no wait early in the morning. Again ... the entrance is on 45th Street, literally across the street from your hotel.

I'm so glad you agree with me, nytraveler!

Sorry I misspoke and misled. Of course a few bucks are all that are necessary to tip for hailing a cab.

As far as footwear goes, in my opinion (though I'm sure others differ), open-toed <b>shoes</b> are one thing, and <b>sandals</b> quite another.

And, just to reinforce Doug's summary of my comments about tipping on discounted meals, please calculate your tip (usually 15% to 20% with 20% being the recent norm) on the bill before the discount and tax.

For example, say the bill is $100 but is discounted by 25% to $75. The 8.875% tax would be assessed on $75 (= $6.66). So your bill would be $81.66 before the tip. You should tip on $100 (= $15 to $20), not on $75 or $82.

<As far as footwear goes, in my opinion (though I'm sure others differ), open-toed shoes are one thing, and sandals quite another.>
I have no idea what this means, and I don't want to know. People in NYC are not generally as dressed up as everyone outside of NYC seems to think they are.

edeevee, I have been following your threads with interest and just want to say, I think staying in a hotel with a view of Times Square will be excellent, and good for you for choosing it. For a first time visitor, TS is an eye-popping must-see; I would not want to stay there every time, but you have to do it once! Have fun!