Supposedly there was an old ritual called Kill Haole Day, though nobody I know on Kauai can ever recall such a thing. My Caucasian kids went to public school in Hawaii and never heard of it or experienced it, nor had any of their friends. They never had any fear whatsoever in their Hawaii school though they recall being intimidated at times in their large, affluent suburban school in CA. When my daughter was a h.s. senior here in Hawaii, the student body president (in a school that was only 20% Caucasian) was a haole girl.

We are in escrow on a property on maui right now. My husband left Maui for SoCal nearly 30 years ago, back he was in his early 20's. We have been planning his great return for years. I am lucky enough that my work will allow me to telecommute from where ever I am, and as a musician, he should have trouble finding work on the island. It helps that we have many friends on Maui, too. We are hoping to make the move sometime in the next year. I have no fears about island fever, since there are plenty of reasonable travel deals to LA and Las Vegas, and trips to Australia are a downright bargain! But after spending 30 years on the road, my husband is ready to settle dpown and hang out on the rock.

But I am realistic and I know that living on the island will be different from vacationing there. From what i have foubd, the cost of living is comparable to what we are used to in LA, except gas is a bit higher. Popwrty taxes and sales taxes are both much lower than we are paying in CA. In actuality, we were able to afford a home walking distance to the beach in a great area on Maui. We could never have bought anything comparable close to the beach in LA!

Pet quarantine is 5 days, provided you have all of your inocluation records upo-to-date.

To paraphrase an old-time local politician (and a great one), "Express an opinion? Anybody can cxprsss an opinion!"

As the other old saying goes, fewer "put their money where their mouth is."

The prevailing characteristic of the American market system is that PRICE indicates the TRUE equilibrium of supply and demand.

Hawaii is a global destination, as contrasted with a regional one, such as Tulsa, Oklahama (no disrespect intended, I loved Tulsa).

How many GLOBAL citizens wixh to live in Hawaii? How MUCH are they willing to pay for a comfortable form of existence in that place?

I humbly suggest that the numbers speak louder than any opinion born of one's singular experience.

Living in Paradise requires an effort, as well. Invest thought, sensitivity,
commitment, generosity, and compassion.
If you are not willing to do so, live anywhere else, because the location will not make a difference; your life will be the same wherever you go.

p.s. as you may observe from my typographical errors in the previous posting, the cataract in my left eye is getting worse.

Sorry about that!

Here todaygone2Maui

Whaaaawho and hoorey for you!!!
You will have to fill us in as the time approaches. THAT IS SOOOOOO EXCITING!!!
Do you mind if I ask what kind of work you will be able to do so far away?

You are in for a GREAT ADVENTURE!!!

This thread has revived many memories for me. My family moved to Oahu in 1969 when I was in ninth grade. We lived for a short time in Waikiki while waiting for military housing. I remember clearly feeling apprehensive about going to the interim school I was attending (about 99% "local") on "Kill Haole Day", but I didn't get killed or even beaten up that day! There was a lot of hype about the day, but I think it was just an urban legend or something.

I lived on Oahu for ten years and loved it. I had friends from so many different backgrounds and learned so much because of it. If I had been able to afford it, I probably would have stayed in Hawaii...

The pet quarantine was changed this summer - it is now considered to be 5 days or less. If you get the forms and instructions (they can be downloaded from an number of sites - none of which I have right now) off the internet and discuss it with your vet and then follow them to a tee, your animal can be released to you at the airport when you pay the fee. As long as everything is in order and has been followed per the instructions pets are no longer kept in quarantine. If they find that something is out of order, though, the pet may be confined for the five days.

did someone need the pet quarantine forms?

http://www.hawaiiag.org/hdoa/ai_aqs_info.htm

Great thread! We spent three wonderful years in Hawaii and it is a major educational, cultural, and spiritual chapter in our life. Our young (pre-school) daughter had wonderful Polynesian and Asian friends, but we could see things changing as she approached first grade.

We knew of some kids who had it very rough in public school because of descrimination. One kid (4th grader) with haole/filipino parents was pushed off from a platform and broke her leg. Another kid (high school) with haole parents was beat up on the street by a gang of four locals. He moved back to the mainland to live with a friend and finish school. Most of the really bright kids in Hawaii go to private schools. The Kamehameha School take the cream of the locals if they have some Hawaiian ancestry. Most mainlanders with substantial jobs will send their kids to a private school. With the best Hawaiian kids and the best haole kids in their respective private schools the public school system in Hawaii is hurting. Descrimination and low test scores are real problems.

We felt our daughter's education would be better served on the mainland. But we still love Hawaii and may go back to live someday.

Pluses in Hawaii include the friendly and hospitable residents, fresh food, spectacular sunrises and sunsets, vibrant colors every day of the year, nice aromas the flowers and the lovely song birds. Minuses include a lack of shopping for basic items, being so far from extended family, and the education system.

shao lin-
It must have been a while since you lived here...we now have just about every shopping opportunity in America here!
A quick look thru the Iolani or Punahou yearbooks makes it very clear that these are no longer the schools of haoles. In addition, the filipino-haole child you speak of would not be considered haole....he would be Hapa, which is the majority race in Hawaii. Well over half of all babies born here are of mixed race (including pakeporkchops and my kids)

Again, I think you can find examples of bullying and cruelty in schools everywhere... the asian kid in Oklahoma, the southern accented kid in NYC, the scrawny kid with glasses in Texas all will have their stories.

Hawaii does have its problems and it isn't for everyone, just as LA or Little Rock aren't for everyone. It is a wonderful home if it matches your needs!

kalena-Does it say how long Mrs Kal would have to keep me quarantined before letting me losse on the unsuspecting public? :-"

Actually, my Filipino/haole friends call themselves....are you ready? I kid you not.... halapinos!!!!

Icuy - we moved from Hawaii to the mainland in 2002. Shopping is getting better but the selection and depth of inventory still doesn't match the mainland. However, there are some things available in Hawaii and not on the mainland, so it's a trade-off.

We really liked living in Hawaii. If it weren't for the problems in the public schools we would probably still be there.

Kal, I'll leave that one to the Mrs. I'm sure you're always on good behavior when you are here. ;-)

Hmm. About the shopping. This is not the mainland. I'm one who lobbied hard against the new Wal-Mart going up in Keeaumoku. I feel Hawaii is too special to go the way of uncontrolled development. and inappropriate growth. To me, it's about supporting Hawaii small businesses and products, and not necessarily trying to achieve a mainland standard.

Having said that, I really appreciate my kamaaina fodorites for their world-view, love of travel, and appreciation of other cultures. Hawaii can feel a bit provincial and obviously we are isolated; Hawaii having the largest population the greatest distance from a continent. Traveling from here to anywhere else takes time, effort, and stamina.

But living here when you make friends and give back to the community is wonderful. And, having been raised here, I wouldn't trade my kids' view of the world for anything.

Happy Thanksgiving wherever you are and Haouoli Makahiki.

Kalena, I hear you about the kids.

Some years ago, I was talking about moving to the continental U.S. bacause of the Price of Paradise (expensive, less income, etc.), but my oldest daughter (in college on the mainland at that time) nixed that, saying that her sisters DESERVED to be raised in Hawaii.

End of subject!

Kalena what a warm message. I hope you had a good holiday! PakePokeChop (SHORTEN THAT SIGN ON) looks like I was born into the wrong family :(. Hope you enjoyed the holiday also.

I moved to a neighbor island from the Northeast US a few months ago. Hawaii is like living inside a picture postcard but with the exception of a few days I've been unhappy since I arrived. : (

My husband is very happy (employed) and I'm trying to make the best of it but it has been a daily struggle. Have already taken one trip to the mainland which helped the rock fever but have not been able to find a job in my field. There are lots of jobs in my professional field but the process of getting one here is very different than in the NE. I haven't determined what it is yet. Not straightforward as far as I can tell.

I don't find the local people to be friendly or unfriendly, in fact they are maddeningly neutral. The major news is traffic and potholes (headlines on TV and newspapers). Boring! I miss the cultural diversity of the NE big cities.

Have had weeks and weeks of guests to chauffeur around and more coming. To move here is to operate a B&B whether you want to or not. ; )

The weather in the winter is very rainy and windy which I never realized as a vacationer. The seas are rough and the water cool. Locals wear jackets and would not think of swimming in the winter ocean.

Housing is no more expensive than the NE USA and there are budget groceries here with comparable prices. Gas may be more expensive but where do you think you're driving to? There's nowhwere to go. The gas costs more but you don't do as much driving as in big US cities.

There are only a handful of national stores to shop in and none top of the line. If you like to shop, this is not the place for you. Seashells R Us is the main franchise. I'm not a big shopper so that's not an issue for me.

The only way I would come here again would be if I had a job before I got here.

I'm anxiously waiting for the summer and flat seas too but now I hear that can be deadly hot. Will keep my fingers crossed.

Yes, did feel sorry for people in NE with brutal winter this year. The weather here doesn't seem enough reason alone to be here. Is nice not to have to bundle up against the cold. Also no heating bills or air-conditioning. (we'll see if we need it).

My things are still in storage. Wasn't crazy enough to move everything here. My husband really wants to make a go of this, so wish us luck.

Would appreciate knowing if any women (or men) have been in the same "loose ends" situation. Wish I could leave today. Thanks.

Kakalena

I lived in Hawaii for four years as a teenager, life in many ways was ideal but if we hadn't left I don't think I ever would have made it to college. It's a very laid back pace, and there were a lot of drugs (this was late 80s), sorry to burst a bubble but many many many people smoke pot in Hawaii and that contributes to a lack of motivation in some cases. The beach/surf lifestyle contributes as well.
I was harrassed because I'm a haole, it was pretty harsh at times, but I dealt with it. Groceries and housing are expensive and you will have cockroaches, no matter WHAT you do, so get used to it. That right there might stop people from moving here. You can be the cleanest person on earth, and you will have cockroaches in your house. You will wake up at night to go to the bathroom, turn on the light, and see a roach the size of a small country poised on your wall. It will happen. Are you ready? :)
Some people really get island fever. And you DEFINITELY will have a non-stop flow of guests. That can be a bit annoying -- so make sure they rent a car and take care of basic sightseeing themselves.

I do feel that I obtained a more "real" Hawaiian experience by living there, just as anyone would in any other city. I knew the uncrowded beaches, I saw amazing things every day, I didn't have to try to cram rainbows, whales, sunrises and sunsets into a week's vacation. BUT I would never want to move back, and in fact it's not in my top five vacation spots. Too commercial and built up -- more so every year.

Hang in there! Sorry to tell you we're expecting a foot of snow tomorrow. Never thought you'd miss that now did you. I hope to relocate someday, and realize that the odds are not in my favour, haven lived in such a cosmopolitan lifestyle. I hope these feelings pass for you! Aloha, Gyppielou

I am assuming that Kakalena did not move to Maui. After years of my husband's begging to move back, I followed him here in Jan. I don't regret it for a minute. I love everything about life here, from the music to the food to the beaches. DH is a 55 year old surfer, and the first thing he did was get me a board. Forty-something is NOT too old to learn to surf. We do swim everyday, weather permitting and when the surf is right, we head over to the other side to catch some waves. Today it was raining on west Maui, but it was another beautiful day in sunny Kiehi, and yes, he was at the beach this afternoon. While he was at the beach, I was Macys. Maui offers me the mainland amenities I need (e.g. Macys) with the island lifestyle he remembers.

I can't imagine getting island fever anytime soon, as there is so much to explore right here on this island, and when I have finsihed with Maui, there are other islands waiting for me! It does help that my work is keeping me busy as well. I am a designer and have already found clients here to supplement my exisiting client base.

I don't find the cost of living any higher than living in SoCal, and the cost of groceries can be easy lowered by shopping at farmer's markets and local shops. We are lucky to have great produce grown right here on the island and we often get fresh fish from a spear-fishing neighbor.

As for being haole, I have yet to experience any discrimination. Perhaps it is because I am Native American and not really white. But my husband is as haole as they come, and he has not ever felt threatened, even when he was younger. Or, maybe he has, but just isn't sensitive enough to notice it as such. He has many friends who are kanaka maoli, Asian and hapa. He is a musiaian and often sits-in with locaI artisits, playing traditional and Jawaiian music. I have traveled the world and found that there are good people and not-so-good people where ever you go. I always try to live aloha, and greet people with a smile and treat them with respect.

Kakalena, I am so sorry to here you are having a bad island experience, but the island life is not for everyone, just as city life of rural life is not for everyone. I know I could never be happy living where is was cold (L.A. was too cold for me!), and the four months I once spent in New Jersey were like Hell for me.

Kakalena, I'm really sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time of it here. However, it is to be expected because it's completely unchartered territory for you and you've only been here a few months. You didn't say which neighbor island you were on or what your profession is, so it's hard to give you advice on that. But I would like to comment on some statements you made. Please remember, I'm on Maui, so it may be a little different in your case.

Getting a job out here can be all about 'who ya know'. Unfortunately, this is the way (not always, but a lot of times!) many things are done here. But don't despair. If you're here for any length of time and and have an open and respectful attitude towards things and cultures you may not understand....you'll make friends. A few of those friends are bound to be able to hook you up with some kind of employment. That's not to say give up interviewing or applying for jobs, just the opposite. Go for it. The person who interviews you tomorrow may end up to be a wealth of info and a very good friend down the road.

You say you find the local people "maddeningly neutral". I think you need to remember that (and this goes back to being open and accepting of people and cultures you don't understand.....yet!) locals see sooooo many people move here from the mainland. We form bonds with these newcomers, offer (and even give)them jobs, friendships, our hospitality....only to be told within 3 years or less that the newcomers are leaving and going back mainland! It's not so much that we are mistrusting....it's more like we just kind of check you out for a period of time and see what you're really made of and see how low long you last. Once thhe locals see you're here for the long haul and that you're willing to give back to the community, you will form form friendship the likes you've never imagined. Deep, to the bone, through the fire, lasting a lifetime friendships!

Your comment "The major news is traffic and potholes (headlines on TV and newspapers). Boring!" made me laugh. For the most part, that's true. But it sure as hell beats reading a headline about your best friends 3 year old child being snatched from her front yard. Crime here is not what it is on the mainland in some big cities.....thank God! And you're complaining?????

If you think Hawaii is NOT culturally diversified, I suggest you get out of the house more often. There are people here from almost every different ethnic background you can imagine. Most enjoy and celebrate their differences.

As far as having tons and tons of guests and playing chauffuer and tourguide to them, 3 little words.....just say no! When they call to tell you they're coming out, tell them "Great! Let me know what hotel you'll be staying at and hopefully I can arrange to meet you for lunch one day or maybe do a beach day together." You and you alone put yourself in the position of being a doormat.

Yes, the weather in the winter is rainy and windy at times. Hello.....this is a tropical island. Your comment about locals not even swimming in the ocean in the winter goes to show that you haven't been here long indeed and don't get out much. Locals and tourists swim in these waters 365 days a year! A large portion of the locals LIVE for the winter waves that can get to be 25 - 30 footers.

I don't know what the housing market is like where you came from but on Maui a simple, nothing fancy, 3B 2BA, 1200 square foot home on a average 5,000 square foot lot in a middle income area of central Maui start in the HIGH $400,000's. The price of homes has skyrocketed out here. And when new developments are announced, there are hundreds of people literally lining up in front of the construction office just to put their name on the list and plunk down $5,000 to reserve a home SIGHT UNSEEN!

And yes, gas is more expensive here ($2.39/gallon). But you believe that you don't do as much driving here because there's "nowhere to go", so that counters the high price of fuel. I have plenty places to go, all over the island....upcountry, Haleakala, Lahaina side, Hana, Makena I think this depends on your lifestyle and how much you get out.

"Seashells R Us is the main franchise"????? WHAT THE HELL ISLAND ARE YOU ON? You're right, we do have only a handful of the national major chain stores....KMart, Walmart, Kay Bee's, Macy's, Gap, Sears etc. "and none top of the line". Probably not to what you're accustomed to. Although if you live on Maui, try going to the Shops at Wailea. It's not Rodeo Drive but it's the closest thing we have.

Is it possible that you feel too far removed from your friends and family back East? That is a very real and common reason for people's unhappiness out here. For most people it's too much to give up. It's the number one reason why mainland people move back so quickly.

In closing, I want to tell you that I do feel for you. I sympathize with you but I honestly think you need to give it some time but also to really adjust your attitude. Life is WAY more simple out here. Get out more. Explore more of the island, even if it eats up the gas! Keep interviewing for those jobs, maybe join the local YMCA or church group. But whatever you do....keep an open mind and don't be quick to judge something, someone, or some place you don't understand just yet. All of this only applies if you really want to make it work out here. If not.......there's a plane leaving for the mainland almost every hour.

Oh....one question though. Are you on Moloka'i? Aloha & malama pono.

Hi Kolohegirl,

It was so kind of you to write back. You really understand where I'm coming from. I'm on the North shore of Kauai. It does seem from what I've read that Maui may be a more energetic island.

I understand what you say about meeting people and networking for employment. My average time to secure a new position in the States is less than a month. If I contact 10 places, I'll have a job. Here I am going on 5 months in a search and have contacted over 100. That's just for comparison, to tell you how different it is. Not being critical of the place. : )

I understand too what you mean about the local people being cautious with newcomers. We were told that right out by our own neighbors. People didn't want to welcome us at first because they thought we were short-timers. Took several weeks for them to warm up. Some still haven't. Again not being critical, just saying how it is.

I know what you are saying about the news too. It's good not to have a lot of the bad stuff here. But it's almost as if the rest of the country is making the news and we just wake up to it. Nothing we can do about it so we just go about our business. Again just my feeling and I realize I have to look at the good side of that. : )

About diversity, on the East Coast of the States we have huge populations of Asians, Latinos, Blacks, Europeans, Arabs and everyone in between. Yes there is some diversity here but I have to say not to the same degree. You'll have to give me that one. ; )

I'll have to give you that I'm a doormat when it comes to family and friends and being able to tell them to get a hotel. ; )

About swimming in the ocean on the North Shore. It has been very rough since we've been here. (10-20 foot seas not uncommon and high winds). We live very close to a beach and although surfers do go out, we haven't seen our neighbors in the water since November. They call it the winter and wear sweatshirts, walk on the beach but very little swimming. We have gone south to some of the more touristy areas where it has been calmer to swim on the weekends. In our area it really hasn't been what most people from the Caribbean or Florida would consider swimmer friendly. We have been told that in April things should turn around.

I did come from an expensive real estate market out East, so we didn't get sticker shock. Your experience may vary.

The population of Kauai(a whole county) is the same as my old neighborhood. I used to drive from neighborhood to neighborhood for entertainment, shopping etc. Yes you can drive around the island here but you can't drive to Maui, Oahu or Hawaii. So I don't drive nearly as many miles as I used to. Probably about 1/3 -1/2 in comparison. Actual mileage.

I'm not a big shopper, so it's not a major item but yes we have the same stores you listed on Kauai (except Gap and Kaybee's). We just got a Starbucks! Five minutes from my old house we had Nieman Marcus, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales, Saks and Lord and Taylor and every national franchise under the sun. I include this comparison for anyone else who might be reading and thinking about moving here. There is no shopping as you know it if you are coming from a metropolitain area.

I've been keeping in contact with friends and family (remember? they're here all the time? LOL!) so I don't think that's it. I just haven't felt engaged by the place. I agree that only time will tell.

I'm with you completely on the plane every hour thing and know I have that option.

Thanks for you excellent response. Very interesting to get another perspective.

Tansy, Miracle of miracles, we don't have cockroaches. Our house is raised off the ground and we are told that helps! I'm glad you've made your peace with the islands.

Gyppielu, You are very kind too. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sorry about the snow.

Here2daygone2Maui, I agree this is surfer heaven. Have met people still surfing in their 70s and I'm sure there are older, who wouldn't consider leaving for a nanosecond. ; ) Enjoy!

Great hearing from all of you!

Kakalena

Kolohegirl, thanks for the positive response. I don't know that I could have pulled it off myself! Kakalena, maybe you should visit Oahu sometime. We consider Kauai "rural" (as does the USDA rural development program), which in any part of the country means a slower, more laid back lifestyle with fewer national chains available.

Also, wait till summer before you go swimming on the North Shore. Winter tends to kick up the big waves.

OK I think I've said enuf!

Aloha, Kakalena. I DO feel you. I am from the San Francisco Bay Area! But I've been here for a long time.

Maui or Oahu probably would've been better suited for you. But north Shore Kauai is beautiful.....Hanalei, Haena, Anahola, though I doubt you live in Anahola since it's mostly Hawaiian Homestead Land. Hang in there, hon. Moving to a new state with a whole new culture is VERY stressful!

Yeah, I would think that the job market is tougher on Kauai than Maui. But keep your head up. Something will turn up!

I know exactly what you mean when you say the rest of the US makes the news and we just wake up to it. Sometimes it doesn't even feel as though Hawaii is a part of the US, does it? My cousins and I jokingly refer to the mainland as "America"! As in......"Oh, I'll be spending 2 weeks in America next month." LOL

Yeah, you probably come from an area with a larger population of culturally diverse groups. And Kaua'i IS a small island!

LOL It's 68 degrees and overcast here in Maui today. I'm bundled up in a sweater and sweat pants. But as soon as the sky looks half way decent me and my kids are in the ocean, winter or not!

As for real estate.....I'm from the SF Bay Area.....need I say more? It's just that the cost of housing here on Maui has tripled in the last 4 years.

But for real, Kakalena, hang in there. give it some time and if after a year...18 months, you still feel out of place consider going home. Hawaii isn't for everybody. If you want to email and just talk story or whatever you can email me at HaYnpowrpuffgrl@aol. com Aloha & malama pono!

Ah, Kolohegirl, you must live in on the other side! It's nice here in Kihei today! Yesterday I had to go to Wailuku and called DH to tell him it was raining buckets. He was getting ready to go spear fishing with his buddy and the sun was shining at home! Like he always tells me, if you don't like the weather here, go to the other side!