Kids and Vacations?
 

After reading some of the questions here, it seems like a lot of the parents plan vacations around their children (not the time of year but children's entertainment). I cannot imagine going on vacation and constantly catering to a child. I applaud the mother in Florida who wants daycare for her child.

It's not so much that the vacation was planned around the children's entertainment. It's a matter of finding the appropriate entertainment ahead of time and being prepared. We'll be heading to my in-laws for Thanksgiving soon. My husband and I can easily find stuff to do away from the house. It takes a bit more advanced planning to accomodate the children.

I can't imagine planning my vacation around children either - that's why I don't have any.

I am a single mom. My 2 children (elem. school aged) and I vacation as often as we can all together and always have a blast. I recently took my first vacation without them and it was very nice. I didn't miss them while I was gone as it was only a 5 day trip and the destination was wonderful and romantic for my significant other and myself -- Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood, OR. However, the vacations with the kids have been just as wonderful. That said, a suite or adjoining rooms are a must for us. Without that, the enjoyment level would be greatly reduced.

Snooze, the post is at or about # 40. The thread is titled Florida Vacation with 16 month old. The originator is looking for a place that has babysitting or a kiddie program.

I am a mother of a 3 yr old and am wondering about where to vacation that will be appropriate for us in the next few years. We don't 'cater' to our son every minute on vacation, but there should be age appropriate activities for him to enjoy. <BR><BR>Thus far, he has been to San Francisco for 3 days, liked the trolly, sea lions &amp; Rainforest Cafe at the Pier; Palm Springs (twice) for swimming, children's museum, Living Desert &amp; Aerial Tramway; Daytona Beach &amp; WDW we all had an amazing time. Our next vacation will be to Gr Canyon, Sedona and Scottsdale. Not too sure what other options there will be for us after that, especially if we have another baby!

Emily, you are exactly the parent I am asking about. You never said where &quot;we vacation&quot; but went into a litany about where &quot;he has vacationed&quot; and what he has seen.

I didn't see how it was relavent where we have vacationed without him. My point is that those places he has been were not centered on his needs, or we would go to Chuck E Cheese for vacation &amp; he would be perfectly happy. <BR><BR>While in SF, we also took him to Alcatraz &amp; on a city bus tour, not what comes to mind for a 1 1/2 yr old, but that's what we wanted to do. In PS he plays in the pop jets at the pool and we can relax and watch him having a great time. I doubt he will be thrilled about Sedona or even the Gr Canyon, but swimming at the hotel will be lots of fun for him, so we all get to enjoy our vacation, together. <BR><BR>And by the way, if my husband &amp; I want to get away, we hire a babysitter we trust at home. Our vacations are for a brief time, so we spend the time together.

I missed all the controversy also. <BR><BR>Our family took our vacations together. The kids were happy just being a family and being together. We took two to five week traveling camping trips each and every year.<BR><BR>Utahtea<BR><BR>

Hal, I sure hope you are not a parent. Part of being a parent is to take pleasure in doing things with and for your children. In any case, we have ALL enjoyed family vacations to Disneyworld and family vacations to Europe. There are many vacations that can cater to both children and adults.

Hal - I'll assume you don't have kids. My husband and I have chosen the child-free life style too. It's always very hard for us to relate to our siblings (who all have kids) since it appears that their children run their lives 99% of the time. I once asked my sister if it's possible for HER to have fun if her son is not. She basically said &quot;no&quot; because if he's not entertained then he'll act up, whine, cry or whatever until he's doing something that makes him happy. I said don't you ever do anything just for yourself....things that are just to make you happy? She couldn't come up with an answer. How sad is that? This doesn't apply only to vacation time, but year round, day in, day out! My sister in law and my brother are basically in the same boat.

Husband and I are happily married 8 years child free by choice. What bothers me is when parents let their kids run loose on vacation without any consideration if their behavior is bothering others. When I sit down for dinner on vacation I don't want kids running and screaming around MY table when I'm paying hundreds to try to relax and have a good meal. And then the parents SCREAM at them to stop. The yelling is just as loud as the kids. I wish parents would have consideration for people trying to relax. Just because they don't get a minute of peace they shouldn't ruin it for others that are paying a lot of $$ trying to enjoy a nice peaceful vacation.

I guess I don't see the either/or mentality. Vacations with the kids can be wonderful. Time with your significant other is equally important.<BR> <BR>What on earth is wrong with a mother asking how to combine the two experiences? Or both seperate couple trips and kid trips? It's the Extreme Parent at either end of the scale - all kids, all of the time, or no kids any of the time- that perturbs me.

For those of you who &quot;can't imagine&quot; and who &quot;have a hard time relating&quot; to siblings with kids, I have a certain kind of pity. While there are certainly days I would trade with you, there are years of joy you will never experience, that child-free not by choice couples spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to experience, and that you may rue in your senior years. I regard parenthood as a fortune bestowed upon me, as a duty to humankind, and as an all too ephemeral most wonderful and unselfish time in my life like I have never experienced and you never will.

I totally agree with Perpetuator.

Wow, Pertperuater, may we call you God? Some think the world is over populated. You really aren't different, you're just average. Quite a grandiose point of view.

Perpetrator - those are some of my favorite arguements that parents make trying to convince the child-free to have children. Go ahead and pity us - pray for us too if you want. It doesn't really matter.<BR><BR>So what if some people choose not to have children? What difference does it make to you? You should actually be happy that there are those of us without children because the child-free pay more in taxes than those with kids because we don't have any children to claim on our tax returns. If we had children, we would be putting less money into the system and taking more out in services.

I doubt the 'tax issue' has any bearing on anyone's decision whether or not have children. It's pretty silly to bring it up at all.

J. Correa you've got it all wrong. People with children could care less if you have kids, and I for one would never try to convince a childfree couple to have them. The world doesn't need any unwanted kids, after all.<BR><BR>Very good friends of ours don't want children, and for good reason, the husband visible shakes and winces just being in the same room with them. I get the same feeling when his dogs jump all over me with their muddy paws. They have canine children, I have human children. to each his own.<BR><BR>He also admits he had a rotten childhood, which I suspect is the case for many childfree couples.

Emily - I didn't say the tax issue has anything to do with people's decision to have children. I said that those with children shouldn't give people without kids so much crap for not having kids because in general CF people pay more in taxes than people with kids. There is more money in the general fund because there are people without kids. <BR><BR>Kids aren't for everyone - Maybe you could not care less if other people have kids, but obviously Perpitrator does care. Otherwise he or she wouldn't pity those who don't have kids or comment about how CF people will rue their decisions when they are old. As someone without kids, I get questioned about not having kids faily frequently, even by virtual strangers. The questions are usually followed by all kinds of reasons why I should have kids. Other CF people experience similar things. <BR><BR>I know many people without kids, some had rotten childhoods, others had great ones - just like people with children. I really don't see any corrolation. My husband and I both had pretty good childhoods, yet we don't have kids. <BR><BR>

I don't have a problem or any complaints against people who choose not to have children. Nor would I try to convince someone they have children if they don't want to, for whatever reasons. I just think it is difficult for me to comprehend why some people choose not to. I can't imagine my life without my son, and I'm sure almost all other parents agree. Choosing not to have this life doesn't make any sense to me. I realize it isn't for everyone, it's just difficult to see how.<BR><BR>I do believe to live and let live. Have a great weekend all!

J Correa and I seem to share a lot of the same views on this subject. Don't even get me started on the tax issue! <BR><BR>I am always amazed that so many people truly &quot;want&quot; children. I suspect that many grew up, got married, and just had kids because it was the next step....the &quot;normal&quot; course of life. It's as if we're all programmed to believe life is not fully complete unless we replace ourselves in society. Luckily my husband and I agree that raising children is not the life style for us. Many people like to argue with me, telling me it's not natural, and try to convince to live my life their way. I've actually had to come up with pat lie just to shut them up! <BR><BR>Just for the record, I grew up in a &quot;brady bunch&quot; type family in the mid-west. We ate dinner together every night at 6pm and visited our grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins regularly throughout the year. I consider mine to be a normal happy childhood.<BR><BR>

Back to Hals original comment... some parents do plan vacations around their children, and have a great time doing so. IF you have children, and IF you are a good parent, why wouldn't you want to show your child the joys of travel? Have you ever planned a trip to surprise your significant other and gotten pleasure out of their happiness? It is the same thing if you're dealing with children.<BR>We have taken family trips all over the world with our kids. Everyone's interests were taken into account- no one person is catered to; but we balance activities...The sign of good planning is when all of the family comes home from an adventure happy! My husband and I also take trips as a couple, and trips as individuals. Each type of travel has its own special pleasures.

My wife and I were childless for 13 years. I remember a work colleague during that time telling me it was our &quot;duty&quot; as a &quot;responsible&quot; couple to have a family. His logic was simple. Irresponsible people will continue to have children. If responsible people choose not to, then the ratio of irresponsible people/children to responsible people/childred grows. Where does that end up? One might argue that that those choices are contributing to an apparent erosion in society today (maybe one of Perpetuator's points).<BR><BR>But it wasn't because of my colleague that my wife and I decided to have/adopt children. We reflected on on our own parents, and other couples their age. There may have been a built in bias, but it seemed to us that those who had the most joy in their lives were those who had family around them (another of Perpetuator's points?).<BR><BR>So one might argue that our decision to have a family was just as selfishly motivated as one who chooses not to for obviously self-indulgent reasons. And I don't necessarily disagree. We are all selfish. And we all want to experience joy in our lives. Having lived both sides of the coin, I have to agree with Perpetuator on this one too.<BR>

I'm a happy devoted parent and I couldn't imagine my life without my child. However I have the upmost respect for people who realize that children won't fit into their lifestyle and choose not to have children. Too many people look at having children as another accessory to their pre-packaged lives. It's just something they're supposed to do. Why have kids that are going to be stuck in day care while you add to your net worth? It's usually the kids who spend little time with their parents are the ones running around like little &quot;lords of the flys.&quot; People who never see their kids don't want to spend &quot;quality time&quot; disciplining their kids.

Good to hear you and your spouse have chosen not to procreate. <BR><BR>No one cares about your opinion of the US tax code though it's probably not as tedious as the tale of what sort of litter you were raised in.

I want to provide enrichment and culture to my child's life. And when you love someone, you like to also do what they enjoy doing. Having a child is really reliving your childhood. I still take time for fancy foods and spas. I could never leave my child with a stranger on vacation. Here you are with this life that is completely shaped by what you do each day. So we seek out museums, animals, nature, science, arts and lots of fun.

I'm surprised by how many people responding to this are really into their children. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Most of the people my husband work with tell him they wish they were in our shoes. Not to be sexist in any way but some of the men complain that things are never the same after a child is born. The wives often gain weight, everything revolves around the kids, can't go out and have carefree fun, etc. I love the freedom to go wherevever we want when we want and have much more $ to spend on ourselves without feeling guilty. And when I'm on vacation I don't want to be bothered by other people's children. Not that I don't like kids but I do enjoy peace and quiet. It appears that too many parents don't have manners concerning their childrens behavior these days.

J Correa could you please get a divorce already. I and many other singles don't like you taking that marriage tax credit and depleting the surplus.

As noted by Darwin the future of mankind will only be determined by those whose genes are passed on by procreation. Child-free by choice is natural selection at work. If we all were child-free by choice we could wipe out the human species in about 100 years or so. It is very interesting to note historical and current data. The third world is currently the most procreative. My recent ancestors had five to eight children on average. They did not vacation in Europe, or for that matter at all. The social security Ponzi scheme would seemingly have made sense given this human proliferation, collapsing only in a Malthusian nightmare. My family tree is pruning itself with dead limbs. My current generation will not replace itself by choice. There is a variety of literature on this subject, but the impact of cultural, sociologic, and personal choices is most definitely affecting the future course of mankind. This is not a matter of good or bad. It just is.

Childfreebychoice: Many of my married friends wish they were single too, and single friends are desparate to experience wedlock. Grass is always greener. Guess what? Those of us with children have been childfree and will be again. For most people, having children at home on a daily basis involves about 18 years or so of an increasingly long life. It is a temporary state.

NCFBC: You say parenthood only takes up 18 years of your life- are you for real? It is a lifelong commitment. Most parents these days have to save money for their childrens college (est. 240k for a child born this year) and maybe even grad school per child. If you're lucky the child will be healthy &amp; independant. If not, they can drain you of everything you have both emotionally and finantially. One of my closest friends has a drug addict son. They have done everything possible to help him and were excellent parents. They are so unhappy - it's very sad to see. I am not saying that we will never have children but it isn't likely. Right now we're putting our marriage first and are very happy.

Um..just curious carefree, how long have you been married?

8 1/2 yrs ; )

Message: Carefree: You say marriage only takes up 81/2 years of your life so far- are you for real? It is a lifelong commitment. Most husbands these days have to save money for their wife's shopping sprees (est. 2.4 million for a wife wed this year) and maybe even cooking school per wife. If you're lucky the wife will be healthy &amp; independant. If not, they can drain you of everything you have both emotionally and financially. One of my closest friends has a shopping-addict wife. He has done everything possible to help her and was an excellent husband. He is so unhappy - it's very sad to see. I am not saying that I will never have another wife but it isn't likely. Right now we're putting our children first and are very happy.

Why would anyone care if another person chooses to have children or not. If you choose not to great, if you choose to you owe to the universe to spend time with your kids. Children need to learn to respect other people, themselves and their enviorment. I bring my child on most vacations with us and 9 times out of 10 she has better manners than the adults that are around.

Now that's just getting way off the subject. Yes, that's correct. Marriage is a lifelong commitment. A commitment we made with wedding vows in a church 8 years ago. It is a commitment I chose and love. My spouse is my number one commitment in life. Have you read all the above posts? I'm not sure what point you're getting at. My married union does not get is anyone's way just as I expect other people's screaming kids to not get in my way when I'm trying to relax on vacation. I love having curves and looking good with men ogling me when I walk along the beach. I love to have the freedom to be myself without having any kids to worry about. Get it?

We didn't plan on it either- sometimes it happens. Some days I hate the work. But, I heard a good description- Before children you life is black and white after children you see color. And I gained weight before the child -LOL! Who are most men to talk!!! I soooo wanted to go to Europe before having a family, now I'll just have to throw her in a backpack. I'll try to keep her manners in check, but when she's tired and off her routine, please don't hate us for wanting to enjoy life. We don't want to sit home on the sofa.

Look, if you want kids, great, if you don't, that's great too. Just don't try and convince anyone that your way is better.<BR><BR>And to the people who think having kids will ruin your figure or your freedom, you're very wrong. I can still wear my size 6 jeans from college (I'm 5'7&quot;), after 2 kids and more years than I care to think about. Nearly all of my friends are the same. We just care about what we look like, and work out like nuts. Gaining weight has NOTHING to do with having kids, it just provides a convenient excuse for those who don't care. If it did, why are there so many overweight husbands with beer bellies around? I don't suppose they can blame childbirth.<BR><BR>And if you have grandparents and reliable sitters, it is possible to get away for couples only vacations, dinners, etc. Now my oldest is old enough to babysit, we don't even need a sitter to go out for impromptu dinners. Trust me, the time flies. And I wanted my children desperately, never, ever have regretted having them, enjoy them every day and on all of our family trips. <BR><BR>Trust me, before kids you think you couldn't possibly love a person more than your spouse, but when you have children, it takes the word to a whole other level. It's just a greater love that only a parent understands, so the posters here that say they are glad they had children, I believe them.<BR><BR>As for the kids bugging others on vacation, I agree. Can't stand it. Maybe people should seek out resorts with KID'S PROGRAMS so they won't disturb anyone!