Many years ago we were at Epcot in the fall. As we were leaving the park one day, I remarked about the plantings -- maybe they were marigolds -- at the entrance. There were literally tens of thousands of them. We talked briefly about that abundant use of flowers just for an impact as you enter, and what the staggering costs must be in not only planting them, but pulling off every single dead bud daily. But the next morning we returned to Epcot. I stopped dead in my tracks as I realized that ALL those marigolds were gone. In their place were tens of thousands of mums. They had all been replaced over night.

Disney does a lot of programs and I have a number of Florida friends who have gone to their "workshops" or "learning sessions". Some are about landscaping and floral usage. Everyone comes back dazzled by the logistics of the entire process. There are so many things that are done so RIGHT at Disney, all those things go into the high costs. Maybe they could cut the use of flowers, or only clean all the fountains once a month instead of every couple of days. Or maybe they could just clean up the trash once a night instead of hiring an army to constantly sweep up every little wrapper or scrap. Do the trash cans have to be painted almost monthly -- what if some had just a few rust spots showing? But frankly, I'd rather pay the extra to have it all just the way it is.

NeoPatrick, and it is SO appreciated by me. My good friend's daughter managed a restaurant in the Magic Kingdom for 4 years, and I have LOTS of Disney employee stories. But it IS as near to perfect clean that it is humanly possible to accomplish with crowds of those numbers. We can't even keep public washrooms clean in our libraries. I know what it takes.

And do I appreciate a little piece of earth that we can pretend is always clean, always happy, and always that way as if it all happened by "magic".
Is that fake? Then give me fake for some hours of my life.

Patrick - saw the Apple Tree last night. Absolutely loved it. That part was written for Chenowith. She is just adorable. Really, a great time. And I am thrilled with the seating at Studio 54 since they did away with those crappy cocktail tables. The seats are wider and there is plenty of leg room. Come up for a visit!!!!!

I book Disney Travel (and no, I'm not soliciting, I work for an agency). I also live near Disney, and there are a number of ways you can save money.

Mousesavers is a great resource.

There are several Hess Stations on property, you can get sodas and such from there as well - you can walk from Downtown Disney or drive over and stock up for the room). There is also one across from the Boardwalk, and the other one just reopened, and I think it's supposed to be much bigger (close to the MK).

Earl of Sandwich just went up in price, but they still are a good deal. That is at Downtown Disney as well.

Refillable mugs are great, but you can spend a lot less on soda buying 2 liter bottles at Hess.

I have never had a childre

I book Disney Travel (and no, I'm not soliciting, I work for an agency). I also live near Disney, and there are a number of ways you can save money.

Mousesavers is a great resource.

There are several Hess Stations on property, you can get sodas and such from there as well - you can walk from Downtown Disney or drive over and stock up for the room). There is also one across from the Boardwalk, and the other one just reopened, and I think it's supposed to be much bigger (close to the MK).

Earl of Sandwich just went up in price, but they still are a good deal. That is at Downtown Disney as well.

Refillable mugs are great, but you can spend a lot less on soda buying 2 liter bottles at Hess.

Childrens meals at counter service are $3.99 much of the time, I buy them for myself since I don't like to eat so much for one meal.

There are restaurants that are less expensive, like Trails End (a buffet, for breakfast or lunch).

AllEarsnet.com is a great resource as well.

You don't have to spend tons - and in some cases, you can certainly go to Europe for the same or less money. But many guests want to go to Disney (I'll be there this weekend - at value resorts, not spending much for food while I'm there). I am driving down, so I'm bringing fruit, Kashi granola bars and cereal, snacks and such with me.

I think I see gmoney's point. While there are differences between ski resorts and Disney, there are also many similarities. Both of them are purpose-built places designed exclusively for leisure use, and most significantly, they have a relatively low ceiling over how many people can be catered to at any one time. A limit on supply in the face of strong demand pushes prices in the way one would expect.

Meanwhile, the phrase 'totally different vacations' surely applies to comparisons between Disney and Europe vacations. Yet people insist on making such comparisons. If someone is in the mood for James Bond, there is little point trying to convert them to go see "A Room With a View."

as, if it's any consolation, location always plays a huge role in prices anywhere - on or off Disney. A drink in Venice is more expensive, as a rule, than a drink in many other European cities. And drink or food purchased in St. Mark's Square more expensive still. Is it worth it? I won't go into that one, but I think it eases the pain, if one knows up front what one is getting into.

Not sure anyone has thought of this but the dollar has lost value considerably against other currencies since 2000. This is bringing in tourists from all over the world to enjoy the US for shopping, particularly in New York City if you can believe that, and things like Disney since it's so cheap against their currency. I'm sure Disney realizes this so they keep the prices up since they know people will come thinking they are getting a bargain.

Just a little tidbit to consider. We were in the UK in July of 2000 with the GBP at 1.62, in 2003 we were there in May with the GPB at 1.72, now the GBP is almost $2. The Brits love to come to the US, they are getting a bargain.

karens: lighten up.

that was unnecessary

I agree that I would love to be spending British pounds at WDW. I spent strong US $ in London in 1985; hopefully I'll get another chance to spend a strong dollar abroad in my lifetime.

I just did, missypie, in Canada. You wouldn't have to go far either direction, actually.

Yeah, our family went to Canada two summers in a row. I can't figure out why everyone in Texas doesn't go to Canada in August - strong dollar and cooler weather - what could be better?

My recent experiences with Canada have been that although you get more Canadian dollars for your US dollar, everything costs more "dollars" anyway, so it never seems to come out a bargain. Spending several days each in Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver, for example, the Vancouver portion was considerably the most expensive, whether for similar hotel rooms, parking, car rentals, gasoline, nice but similar restaurants, cocktails, or even a cup of coffee at a Starbucks. I don't care if I get 20 Canadian dollars for each of my US dollars, if they're going to charge me 20 Canadian dollars for a cup of coffee instead of 1 US dollar, how am I coming out ahead?

LLinda: you, too.

$2.50 for a soda? That's highway robbery!

It very much depends. I did not have to buy Starbucks but the coffee that was local and excellent and cheaper than home in the USA. And I did high end lodging on Priceline, did not feel a pinch there either. The only place I felt was more expensive in dollar amounts than home for "goods" were in Toronto and right next to Niagara. And those city/tourist pull places are heightened prices in USA meccas, as well. Sometimes more, in fact.

In 2005, on drive Canada per day, I did not find it more expensive, per real value/goods exchange, at all.

mrsd2fan, if you think that is highway robbery, you have never been to an American sporting venue, anywhere- not even major league. Nor to public zoos, places like Kennedy Space Center, etc. etc. Or for that matter, a lot of college campus or public places in cities that have the water/pop machines.

JJ5-I work on a college campus and the soda/water machine is $1.00
And yes, I've been to sporting events...I agree that the prices are ridiculous.

They are not $1.00 on my campus and I'm not a city location either. The pop is $2.00 and the water is $2.00 or $2.50.

Disney World is just not any more expensive than any other amusement park, city zoo, or live entertainment place I've ever attended, although there may be some out there. And actually less than any major sports venue I attend. And the quality of surroundings, cleanliness, live plants etc. -all the way down the line, are superior at WDW than at the others with comparable prices.

The most expensive water, pop etc. I've ever experienced has been in Niagara Falls, both sides, both kinds of money.

I love to talk to my teenage students about expensive, hyped, plastic, 3 1/2 hour distant Disney World (which they all swoon over) versus the free, authentic, natural, half hour distant Society of the Four Arts Garden which they've never heard of. They've never been to the latter, and it's a shame.

It's warped values in my book.

I'm not a Disney World fanatic in any way myself, although I have had a few good times there, although many years apart and now not for over 5 years.

But I must say, once again, that the rote "warped values", fake, total commericialism is absolutely subjective and IMHO a generalization that is repeated and yet just plain wrong. Intellectually, I am so sick of the old refrain that to me has little, if any actual substantiation- except maybe in the cartoon products/characters' goods sales. But I guess they aren't selling little gladiators next to the Colosseum either. LOL!

It has just not been the case or my experience in any personal visit I have had to those parks. Nor in any heightened degree by comparison to any other live, theatrical, art form, public garden, or venue on other continents done for entertainment value and/or arts sake either.

For instance, the hydro-farm, hanging water gardens in EPCOT in THE LAND (and I could make lists of surroundings and demonstrations of similar kinds in AK or in MGM) well, I ate the carrots grown from that exhibit, which is like an art work in every sense. They sure didn't taste fake to me. Learned a whole lot about hydro farming as well.

Intellectually it just isn't fair to repeat that refrain when you have not experienced the educational, imaginative, historical, and entertainment aspects of many related Disney activities. It not only cartoon characters and rides, and hasn't been for a long, long time. It's shows in every technical venue or form, much live entertainment and access to interactive entertainment activities (dancing/ games) and also huge numbers of related educational demonstrations.

And how does going to WDW preclude you from attending other places? It doesn't. Some days you feel like a nut, some days you don't.

It isn't my favorite place in the world by any means, but it IS one of the ones where I have had the most fun, seen immense examples of wit and imagination. And despite not liking crowds or heat, I just can't stand when its given such an unearned dis.

May I just point out that Disney was one of the first companies to offer benefits to unmarried partners of Disney employees?

When the Southern Baptist Convention said they would boycott Disney for supporting homosexuality, Disney released a statement stating something to the effect that they find it unfortunate that they were being penalized for offering medical benefits to the uninsured.

Here is a link to the boycott.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/disney4.htm

I've said it before and I'll say it again, while some groups preach about "family values" it's sad that they think one such family value is the spreading of hatred.

Because they cherrypick their 'values'.

Expensive? Yes.

The look on my grandson's face when we arrived for his first visit: priceless

(to borrow from an advert).

I would never comment on what a horrible city to visit Branson, Missouri is because I've never been there. It doesn't sound like the type of place I'd enjoy, and I doubt I'll ever go, but I have to reason to tell others they're crazy to go there -- nor could I possibly be an authority on what the place is like.

Yet there seem to be dozens if not thousands of people who love to talk about what a horrible place Disney World is, and how those who go have misguided values -- even though many of those people have never been there. How did they get to be experts on a place they've never been?

Credit where credit is due. Disney has stood up against the hate-mongers. They put the welfare of their employees before the almighty dollar, and they deserve credit.

Still, I'd rather stick needles in my eyes before I'd spend another saccharine minute there. But to each his own...

We just returned from our trip today. Fantastic trip (especially the shuttle launch!!!)...but yes, expensive. We had a great time, but highly doubt we would return. One trip of this nature is enough for our family, just based on preferences. We prefer either European trips or backpacking in the mountains. Just a personal preference. BUT, we did have a great time, loved our hotel and the parks, made some great memories...so while not our usual trip it was still great! But it sure is nice to be home:)

Welcome home mms!!! I cringed when I read that the Challenger was not going to take off but it finally did and I so thought of you and your family!

Thanks LiveItaly:) Yes, the first attempt was a long night. The crew said they were not too disappointed it didn't go that night as it was still such a charge to be in it and ready to go. I was glad to hear that felt so good about it. But the 2nd attempt, the Discovery did take off and OMG, absolutely spectacular!!! The fireworks shows at Disney couldn't compete, lol!

Must still be tired...I DO know how to spell your name, lol!

mms, we were thinking about you the night of the first launch attempt! So glad that it was a beautiful night on the 2nd attempt and that you got to see what we mean when we say it lights up the sky.

Sorry you didn't have better weather while you were here (although we had relatives from the NW in town at the same time, and they were just happy to have a change from the horrible weather they've been having).

dsquared--Thanks:) I was thinking of you too, with the help you gave me. Funny about your relatives...that is exactly what we were thinking too! I just watched the dvd that my DH made of the launch and am still in awe of it.

Yes NeoPatric it is true I have been going for about 10 years. Prices have increased every year. But this year they have gone through the roof. It is a wonderful place and lots of fun for the kids (and adults too) but next year I will reconsider and maybe go somewhere else
with more value for my dollar.

I went in 1972 when I was 10 and again in 1980. I don't remember the prices well, but I'm sure it was expensive then too. I remember staying off property at the Howard Johnsons Hotel in Lake Buena Vista. I also remember my parents not buying any souvenirs. I remember going on "If You Had Wings" ride when it was sponsored by Eastern Airlines, so that gives you a time frame. Have not been there since and don't expect to go back there any time soon.

Well, if you are using 20 years ago as the comparison, let met tell you this. It is immensely better now than it was then. Much less cartoon, IMHO less commercialism re product association, and much more pure entertainment value. And the surroundings are superlative in nearly any public display/ entertainment or esthetic sense.

It is probably not a good value in the most crowded times. I have not been there in those times myself. The last time I was there in October and they actually were starting shows after we came into the hall/room. Magic Kingdom is the least changed and my personally least favorite. It got better.

JJ5--Could you give some examples of how it is different? Maybe I just didn't notice, but when we lived in Winter Park 17 years ago, we went to Disney often and I didn't see any real differences on this trip. The cost is the only different thing we noticed. Well, and a couple new rides, lol!

More entertainment while you are waiting for shows to start (pre-ride ride LOL! or views/preclude scenarios within the maze or waiting rooms), new rides, new shows, different parades. Shows revamped and parade styles and types have changed, routes through the parks have changed and most of all there is much more interactive with the tech age growing up. They changed many of the old standbys like the House of the "future" etc. And put in things like the Rock & Roll roller coaster type surprises instead in almost all of those former Corps based oldies. Also the shows are less song/dance basic now- have more a tinge of cirque type shows with special effect features, IMHO.

Actually many of the former type E rides are modified, changed or have been replaced, except for Magic Kingdom classics like Pirates of the Carib. etc. We missed Captain Nemo though, I thought that one should never have left. And the Alien encounter too.

Also if you stay INSIDE Disney, there are lots of watersport and campgrounds activities that are available that weren't when they were much newer. But overall, I think it is the quality of the surrounding natural botany bounty plus and general landscaping and structural improvements that have grown up to magnificent in aspects. Many more pools, water venues too- not just the waterpark features, themselves.

Are you trying to test me, bait me in a way? That's sounds paranoid, and it is- because you would never ask that of a city in Europe with 2 very same features that they had 50 years ago. Or entrance fees to shows/plays that are basically very similar. Nor would so many dis Pisa per se, just because it has the same old leaning thing.

Disney is Disney. It is a pretend place. People do not actually live there. Before long, Venice may be similar, as less and less and less people can live there in reality.

And the pretend place is a valid magic condition re children of all ages. One in which the powers that be, well they actually seem to change things BY magic when they do change. Or clean, or supervise or anything you generally would "see" done out in the open at other venues.

JJ5--I'm sorry that you think I am baiting you. Not the case at all. I asked an honest question because I could not see much difference for myself and so was curious. That is all...no other motive, etc.