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Itineray - LA Yes or No
Researching into a 5 week trip starting in Vancouver taking in west coast, Seattle and San Fran, LA then on to Vegas and later NE USA -Chicago, N.Falls, Boston and ending up staying in NY City before flying home.
The more research and reading I do the more i wonder if LA is really worth a 3 day visit within the schedule. I am a little nervy of the safety aspects and the amount ther is to see and was wondering if the three days i had planned may be better spent else where? Current schedule allowing for travel, including Amtrak sleeper, and flights: 3 days VanC (been before) 2 days Seattle 3 days SF 3 days LA ???? 7 days Vegas 3 days Chicago 2 days Niagara Falls ?? Boston ?? Wash DC ?? Philly 7 days NY city |
Sorry, but you're planning 7 days in Las Vegas and you wonder if there's enough to do in LA for THREE days? I truly think you have this backward.
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Completely agree with above. There is nothing to do in Vegas for more than 2 nights. If you're going to the Grand Canyon, add another night for that overnight trip. That's 3 nights in that area, which is enough. LA has a lot to offer. The only reason I would skip it is if you don't have a car and mind commuting long distances by buses as it's very spread out. If you can rent a car, I would definitely keep it on the list. I would also definitely add DC to the list for 3 days. The general consensus is that it's not worth the cost and trouble to go to Niagra Falls if you have limited time, and if you do go, you don't need more than 1 night there. You can do 2 nights each in Boston and Philly. If you're going to do any side trips from SF, I would add 2 more days there. If you're taking the train, I would do 3 nights in SF and then allot 3 nights for stops along the coast between SF and LA (Monterey, Santa Barbara, San Lus Obispo, etc). If you had to skip something else, I would skip Seattle and add New Orleans to your trip.
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I don't think I can help much since a few of your choices just don't make sense to me. But it your trip after all . . .
3 days SF vs <u>7 days</u> in Las Vegas?? That is the first one that surprised me. Then 2 nights at Niagara Falls - why? The places that would be "musts" for me Like DC, SF and LA get less time than Vegas. |
Blimey (mild english explitive)
Help me out here please folks. Wife and i have booked a 30 day usa rail pass to celbrate our 25th wedding anniversary.We are in our mid 40's. Visiting family in Vancouver begining of April and have the opportunity to take 5 weeks travelling to New York. Always wanted to tour the USA and visit specifically SF, Vegas, Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls, and NY. Just dont know where else to visit or how long to spend in each City. Any suggested itinerays? (as what i had originally planned does not seem to fit with you experts.) Any recommendations gratefully received., |
Hi, Tauntony -
Sounds like a wonderful trip! Like others, I'm a bit surprised that you would want an entire week in Vegas, but it really depends on what you want to see and do. I also agree with others that a single night in Niagara Falls would likely be sufficient. Personally, I'd add more time in Chicago and I would seriously consider including Boston for a couple of days, DC for at least 3 or 4 days (depending on your interests), and a couple of days in Philadelphia. Hope that helps! |
So, is your plan 30 days, starting in Vancouver (not counted in the 30 days) and ending in NY (also not counted in the 30 days)?
I don't know anything about Amtrak, but I'd want: 2 days Seattle 1 day Portland 4 days San Francisco 3 days Los Angeles 3 days San Diego 3 days Las Vegas (includes time for a day trip to the Grand Canyon) 3 days Chicago 3 days Boston 4 days Washington 2 days Philadelphia That's how much time I'd want in each city -- it doesn't account for travel time, because I have absolutely no idea how long it takes to get from place to place by train. That's just a starter -- others will chime in, I'm sure. |
I like the suggestion to add New Orleans to the itinerary. I love that city :) And it will be unlike most of the other things you will be seeing.
I also like the suggestion to spend a couple days driving between SF and LA - the Big Sur coast is very beautiful. What time of year are you coming? |
You need to understand (unless you've used it before) that you can't rely on Amtrak for long distance train trips on any sort of schedule. It is not the least bit unusual for the Coast Starlight to get in to one of its Calif stops 12, or even 24 hours late.
US passenger trains - except for a few high traffic commute-corridors (along the east coast, between SF and Sacramento, between LA and San Diego, etc) are the poor step child of US public transport . . . . . |
janisj is absolutely right that you can't plan for the trains to be on schedule. so you have to factor in travel time AND delays into your itinerary.
I'll expand on dmlove's itinerary which is pretty good already, but doesn't include NYC which needs 4-5 days. I also made these "nights" instead of days to factor in for travel time it takes to get to/from the city/hotel from the station etc: 4 nights San Francisco 1 night Monterey stop along the coast 1 night Santa Barbara stop along the coast 3 nights Los Angeles 3 nights Las Vegas (includes time for a day trip to the Grand Canyon) 3 nights Chicago 5 nights NYC 3 nights Washington DC This is 23 days, without any travel time incorporated. So this is about as much as you can fit in and I think these are the most important cities to visit on your list. It's really not worth spending 2 of the days going to Niagra Falls. Most people are dissappointed when they go out of their way to see it. And you would be going out of your way since it's about 7-8 hrs one way from NYC, i.e. full day to travel each way. It's also highly recommended that you rent a car in LA. The other cities on this list you can do without one. Also, keep in mind that just getting to Chicago from Vegas is going to take a couple days by train. I wouldn't try to fit in more than this in your trip. Add the extra night or two you may have if everything goes on schedule to the cities where you want more time once you're there. |
You might want to check the timetables going back to Chicago from the west coast. The train from LA leaves in the middle of the night and you miss a lot of the good desert scenery. I think the train from the Bay Area might be a better choice.
If you do decide to visit in LA, you can catch the Metro Red Line directly from Union station to Hollywood and to Universal Studios. You do not need to rent a car if you don't want to. Downtown Los Angeles or Hollywood would be convenient for a hotel location since the Metro connects them. If your arrival is late at night, you can get a taxi to a hotel in Little Tokyo (the Miyako is a reasonable choice). I don't know what it is about Las Vegas and the Brits, but it always seems to be at the top of the list. But I agree that 7 days is a bit much. |
Smartcookie, the entire trip is 5 weeks and the Amtrak pass is only 30 days - I assume they will arrive in NY and stay there for a week or so at the end of the Amtrak portion of the trip.
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Ah, that makes sense, dmlove. Hopefully they will expand on the details. I would add New Orleans detour if that is the case or Seattle/Portland. Would be also helpful to know what time of the year they're going. They don't absolutely need a car in LA, but that would limit them in what they can do and see, especially if they want to see the popular beach neighborhoods and if they're not keen on spending an hour or more on buses with connections to get there or the Getty each way, which are some of the highlights for many tourists.
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Agree too many days in Vegas. It is all the same. One big theme hotel after another. Fun for a while, but no variety. LA (or other real cities) have lots of different things to do. Cut Vegas in half and add it somewhere else. (I say LA. Downtown, Venice, Farmer's Market, Observatory, Getty I and II, Norton Simon, Huntington, studios, Farmer's Market, Hollywood, and tons of other stuff.)
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There's no way I'd try to see large portions of the Western U.S. by Amtrak. Our trains are just not that comfortable, and freight trains get track priority over passenger trains on almost every route, hence delay, delay, delay.
Are you aware the trains don't travel along the coastline in Washington or Oregon or almost all of California? Go to www.amtrak.com and click on the map of routes. You'll also see that you can't get all the way to Las Vegas by train. There's probably a bus from Kingman. In any event you must go to Los Angeles first. L.A. is probably as safe as most of the other cities on your list, and it certainly has enough sights to occupy you for three days. World class museums (the L.A. County Museum, Getty Center, Getty Villa), the entertainment industry (Hollywood, studio tours, the Hollywood Bowl), wild and undeveloped land in the middle of vast urban development (Griffith Park, the Santa Monica Mountains), great restaurants of every ethnic cuisine you can think of (Ethiopian, anyone?), a planetary observatory (recently renovated), botanical gardens, and on and on. What it doesn't have for travelers without a car is a comprehensive public transportation system. You can get everywhere, but it will likely take you a long time and three days will melt away very fast. I'm not a fan of Vegas, so 7 days there would drive me insane. Good luck! |
Tauntony-Just wanted to make sure that you have already purchased your 30 day rail pass. If you had then you will just have to deal with train delays.
I don't know how much a rail pass costs per person but if you haven't purchased it, you might want to think about doing some flying instead. There are low cost airlines such as Southwest than can get you to Chicago and then on to the east coast. If you are in LA and book your ticket early, you can get a one way flight to Las Vegas for around $59 per person. A combination of train and planes would work so much better for you. As far as Los Angeles, I am not sure what you mean about safety issues. LA is just like any other big city. There are certain neighborhoods to avoid but the touristy areas are perfectly safe. I don't think you 'd have much problem driving in LA. I have several British friends who rent cars and drive in So. CA and have no problem. You can get around in LA without a car but public transporation is slow. I am another one who would not spend 7 days in Las Vegas. Three days is plenty maybe 4 if you add in the Grand Canyon. Let us know what else we can do to help. |
Thanks to you all for your suggestions.
As I expected different views on what I should and should not visit. Perhaps it’s just us Brits? But the two things I did not want to miss out were Vegas and Niagara Falls. The train service to both of these sites is not good as I have since discovered. I have decided to fly from LAX to Vegas and then fly on to Chicago using Southwest airlines who I understand allow you to change flights without penalty.This will hopefully allow me some flexibility in to how long I stay in Vegas. So revised schedule and a bit more detail for your comments. 1-4 Vancouver with family 5 Start Seattle (first day of train pass) Overnight sleeper to San Fran 6-8 3 nights San Fran 9 All day train to LA 10-11 2 days LA 12-16 Fly to and stay 5 days Las Vegas (Inc G.Canyon) 17 Fly to Chicago 18-19 2 days Chicago including watching Baseball game 20 Overnight Train to Buffalo/Day at Niagara 21 Leave NF to??? 22-27 Boston? / Washington?/ Philly (end of rail pass) 28-35 New York I know I am trying to get it all in but I don’t know if I will ever have the time off work or the money to visit the USA again. Thanks again |
I see you like to visit cities.
How are you planning to get around? Are you going to rent cars or are you avoiding car rentals? How are you planning to visit the Grand Canyon? There are bus and airplane tours from Vegas. There is an overnight train from L.A. to Williams, Arizona. From there you can get a (non-Amtrak) train up to Grand Canyon. If you got a car in Las Vegas you could drive to G.C. and spend a couple of nights there. Stop at all of the lookouts. Might be nice to visit Wupatki National Monument, if there is rain in the desert in April then it will be colorful, quite different from U.K. But even if you don't stop there you can drive on down to Sedona for a night or two. Fly out of Flagstaff or, less expensively probably, out of Phoenix. L.A. is safe enough and there is a lot to see here. But I'd recommend taking a couple of days to visit Yosemite National Park instead, given that most of the rest of your tour is city. I don't get the point of your visit to Chicago. Do you want to see a Cubs game? or a White Sox game? or just any major league baseball game? Seattle has a nice ballpark and a decent team. Baseball in S.F. and Oakland. Also in L.A. and Anaheim. There is even a minor league team in Las Vegas. From Buffalo you could see major league baseball in Toronto. Are you interested in racing? Some of the Kentucky Derby prep races are held in April. |
Love cities but would also like to do Yesomite, Grand Can and Niagara Falls .It just trying to fit it all in
Do NOT want to drive at all. Do enough of that in my day job and would like a glass of wine or two with my lunch!. Planning Vegas to GC by days helicopter tour Baseball – Don’t really mind who or where just heard the Chicago stadium is worth a visit but understand the Boston Sox are the team to watch. Just want to go a game sit with a beer in one hand and hot dog in the other and sit next to a local who can explain the finer points of the game. Love horse racing tell me more |
I would go to either a SF Giants game - AMAZING ball park w/ views across SF Bay, or a Chicago Cubs game or Red Sox game. I would not go to Chicago if it was just to mainly attend a game.
If you drop Chicago and go to games in San Francisco and/or Boston you'd have more time to add other cities. |
meant to ask - does your screen name mean you are from Somerset? Love (!) that part of the country . . . . .
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Are those days or nights? If they're days, you have to realize that you will be spending half of your travel days in transit, so they're not really days where you will see much. I understand the desire to see everything and I do trips like this myself, but there is a reasonable time to spend in a city and then there is a way to just get to the city and not actually see much in it.
2 days in LA without a car will only allow you to see Hollywood and West Hollywood. You won't have time for any of the beach neighborhoods. I don't think it's worth the trip just for that. If you can't do 3 nights in LA without a car, or 2 nights with a car, I would skip it altogether. 2 days in Chicago is also very little. If it's 2 nights, then it's not too bad, but if it's 2 days where you will be traveling for part of each day, then it's not worth it either. 5 days in Vegas/Grand Canyon is still too much. You can easily cut it down to 4. You have to realize that the touristy Vegas that you will see is just one street with a bunch of hotels. It'll take you one day to walk around, and another day to gamble and see a show, and then you'll be ready to leave, like most. Unlike you're hiking and doing other outdoor activities at the Grand Canyon, it will only take you 1 day to actually see the canyon itself. So, you can do 1 night there and not miss anything. You have to choose between Philly and Boston. I would pick Boston if I were you and spend 3 days there. You need 4-5 days in NYC just to see the major sites. In terms of flights, Southwest does allow you to change flights without penalties, BUT you will have to pay the difference in cost if you do. And flight prices go to regular prices within 2 weeks or so of the flight. So, if you do decide to change it the day or two days before, you could be paying double or triple the original cost in price difference. The times that were indicated above were already the minimum days you need to spend in each city. |
Might be chilly in S.F. for an April baseball game. There is a baseball team in Boston, but that place might be too Irish for you. Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles is a great place to see a game. I am an L.A. Angels fan and though the ballpark is not a classic style it is a great place to see a game, usually 40,000 fans with frequent sellouts (43,000). It is in Anaheim, near Disneyland (the Anaheim Amtrak station borders the stadium parking lot, in fact). I've recommended skipping L.A. but if you do come, let me know and I'll be the local sitting next to you explaining the game.
I am fairly certain that there are tour buses that go from S.F. area to Yosemite. Figured you'd like racing, being a Brit. I will have you know that I did attend Royal Ascot, in the Royal Enclosure. And bet on the winner of the Darby at Epsom (Lamtarra). In April, there is racing in S.F. at either Bay Meadows or Golden Gate. But the bigger meet is at Santa Anita, in the L.A. area. The track was featured in the movie Seabiscuit. The grounds are beautiful and extensive and the backdrop, the San Gabriel mountains, is fairly dramatic. Racing is Wed thru Sunday, daytime. The meet starts Dec 26 and runs to April 20 (none of the three-five day meets/fixtures here, more like five months). You want to go to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Nothing else will do. Looktours has a plane/bus tour. Fly to G.C. airport and then a tour bus takes you to a couple of the most fabulous stops at the canyon rim. Then fly back to Vegas. 6 hours or so total. But would be better if you stayed the night. There are bus tours too, go across Hoover Dam and thru the desert. |
one clarification re mrwunrfl's comment - April is usually very nice in SF. Surprisingly, a ball game then would almost certainly be warmer than in June or July.
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I stand corrected. But it might be cold/rainy in Chicago or back east. Little chance of a rainout in L.A. One April several years ago I was in L.A. for business and didn't put the top down on my rented convertible for the entire month.
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MY SIL recently attended a conference in Ottawa (she is from New Zealand). She made the trip to the Niagara Falls stayed in a hotel where she had an awesome view of them and just loved the boat trip to the Falls themselves and the tour behind them. She took some incredible photos and has convinced me that DH and I should go and see them sometime.
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If you plan to go to a major league baseball game, plan to buy your tickets in advance. We have a hobby of sorts of visiting different stadiums on our trips and spent a very uncomfortable game in Atlanta once with standing room only tickets. There were empty seats in front of us, but we weren't allowed to move into them.
Some ballparks do not have crowds at all and you can walk up and buy tickets, but that is not always the case. Also keep in mind that only half the games are home games - there might not be a game when you are there. That's something that we've run into when planning our trips - especially if we are trying to go to two different stadiums in the same area. You can check schedules, prices, and ticket availability at mlb.com. I'm not sure how far in advance it is available. Debbie |
Just a thought - if you think you might be able to come back to our country again, it would make the trip much more relaxing and doable if you broke it into two pieces and didn't try to see everything in one trip. We are a big country and it makes me pretty tired just reading your itinerary. You're going to be spending a lot of time traveling from city to city.
Here's another idea. Try re-writing your plans and show the travel time. For example, 3 days Vancouver 1 day Vancouver to Seattle 1 day Seattle 1 day Seattle to San Francisco 2 days San Francisco etc. That will make it more obvious how much time you actually have in each city. By and large, you will lose a day with each change of city, I would think. Debbie |
Oops - I see you already did break it up into travel days in another note.
Debbie |
Tauntony, given that you enjoy your wine you should consider taking a tour from San Francisco to the Napa Valley. The closest Amtrak station would be in Martinez, CA, I think. But there are day tours from S.F. hotels.
After Buffalo, you should be able to find winery tours in New York too. There is some good racing in Arkansas, at Oaklawn Park in Hot Springs. Interesting little town with bath houses that catered to Chicago gangsters back in the day. It is off the beaten track though. You'll find racing in New York city in April. The Wood Memorial is mid-month and is the last big Derby prep. The Kentucky Derby is the first Saturday in May. The racetrack, Churchill Downs (a grand place), opens about a week before that. The racing at Santa Anita will have a $300,000 or higher stakes race just about every weekend that month. The weather will be excellent and the racing first rate. |
Having escorted a fair number of your fellow "Brits" thru CA, they do report loving Vegas, Yosemite, Carmel (I think mostly because of fascination with Clint Eastwood). "Hollywood" is usually a bit of a disappointment, but they do seem to want to see it, look at the footprints, etc. As I mentioned, if you arrive at Union Station in LA, you can stay either downtown or in Hollywood and in two days get around easily without a car using the Metro Red Line (www.mta.net). There is also a direct bus from Union Station to LAX. You will not run out of things to see/do. It isn't necessary to go out to Santa Monica as is often suggested by some people.
Chicago is a great city and I would spend a week there if I could, even without a baseball game. It's easy to get around without a car. It can be bitterly cold in April (one visit it was 90 degrees when we arrived and changed to around freezing DURING the baseball game). Since Chicago has two teams, it might be a good option for the game (but try to see the Cubs). Be sure to check schedules ahead so you will be there when there is a HOME game. On the east coast, Boston is a lot like England (we used to call it a half-way house when my Welsh in-laws moved there). Washington DC would be a good choice for a few days, and also easy to get around. (You can stay just across the Potomac in Arlington or Alexandria and save a bit on hotels). I would pick the latter over the former, can't help with Philadelphia. Good luck with your planning, and do what YOU want to do. |
There is a nice racetrack in the Chicago suburb of Arlington Heights called Arlington Park. I think it might not be open in April but mention it because you can get there by Amtrak (after connecting from a commuter rail line). The other tracks in Chicago are not of much interest. Santa Anita in LA, though, is a gem.
I am told that the San Diego Padres baseball park is across the street from an Amtrak station and the area is an interesting place to visit. The excellent racetrack at Del Mar, near S.D. is only open mid-July to the beginning of September. |
It's not "necessary" to go to Santa Monica, Venice, the Getty, Beverly Hills etc in LA, but those are some of the highlights and what tourists usually expect to see as that's what they see on TV. If you spend all your time around Hollywood and Downtown LA, just don't expect to see the places you're used to seeing in the movies as those are filmed in Beverly Hills, Brentwood, and Santa Monica.
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Even most of "CSI: Miami" is filmed in the South Bay (Manhattan, Hermosa and Redondo Beaches).
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Thanks to all
MLGB a special thankyou. It is very difficult to plan a trip to somewhere you know about but in reality know nothing of in terms of the basics and surely that what these forums are all about. The things i wanted to do when i set out on this trip was: "SEE vegas,grand canyon, NY city, Niagara Falls " All the above do not seem to be "must do" for most Americans. I do not want to and could not drive a car and see what i would like to visit within the USA. I have since discovered that your internal flights are cheap and plentiful. BUT i really do want to travel the west coast by train and seem more of you country, all be it through a glass window. Be able to walk around ,read ,relax,take an overnight sleeper, have another glass of wine, and still arrive hopefully refreshed when i get to my destination. The thought of being teleported between airports seems to me like you could be in any state / country /continent. Enough of me rambling on and i do thank you all for your suggestion. |
train is fine. just remember that there is often only one train per day and they're often very late. you don't need a car in Vegas, NY, and SF, so those cities would be best for you. and you can get an organized tour to take you to the Grand Canyon from Vegas. you can take the train and then a shuttle to Niagra Falls. It's about 7-8 hrs from NYC. LA and San Diego are hard to see without a car. If you're ok with bus rides of about an hour to get to some sites, then you'll be ok. But I'd concentrate on spending more time in places where you don't need a car, i.e. NY, DC, Boston, SF. You can also get off the train in Santa Barbara on the way from LA to SF.
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It sounds to me that you want to do a lot more planning before you finalize anything. IMO, it is very hard to see the western US by train. You will be so much happier and much more efficient if you rent a car. (Skip the wine at lunch and have an extra glass at dinner.)
I would definitely rethink the 7 days in Vegas. Go for a night or 2, stay at the Bellagio, walk the Strip and then LEAVE! Instead, consider working in some of our national parks: Grand Teton/Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, Bryce/Moab/Canyonlands, Yosemite. For me, the beauty of America is its national parks. You could chose a few, and work them into your itinerary. Very doable while exploring Seattle, San Francisco, LA, Vegas. Three days in LA is good. If you have a car, you can see a lot more: day trips down to Orange County, maybe a night in San Diego if time permits. I think you will be very frustrated trying to see this area by bus and/or train. It's just not that kind of a city. Chicago is one of my most favorite cities, but it is a little off your path. It has incredible museums, but you can see plenty of museums in other cities. I think it would be more important to see Boston, Philadelphia, New York, Washington DC. However, the good thing about Chicago is that you can fly to/from there very quickly so you might have time. In fact, you could go LA to Chicago, then Chicago to Buffalo, rent a car and drive to Niagara Falls. You will love Niagara Falls. But you must see it from the Canadian side. Don't bother with the NY side. Most of the major hotels have excellent views right on the falls. From Niagara (Buffalo airport), fly to Washington DC (3 days), train to Philadelphia (2 nights), train to NYC (3 days), train to Boston (3 nights). Add a night or 2 in the Cape Cod area if possible (Nantucket is my favorite). Then back to the UK. When you come back to the US, focus on the South: especially Virginia (Richmond area), Florida, and Texas (San Antonio/Hill Country. 3 days Vancouver 2 days Seattle 3 days San Francisco 2 days Vegas 5 days misc National Parks (not necessarily in this order) 3 days LA/San Diego 2 days Chicago (optional) 2 day Niagara Falls 3 days Washington DC 2 days Philadelphia 3 days NYC 3 days Boston 2 days Cape Cod/Nantucket (optional) Hope you have a great time! |
Cox2 gives you a do-able itinerary, and I definitely agree with less time in Vegas and the need for a car in California. But, still, it's a busy itinerary when you consider the travel days, and the amount of packing, unpacking, checking in and out of hotels, going to airports, etc. I'd still narrow it down and skip a couple of cities myself.
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What's the attraction to Las Vegas?
The shows? The gambling? It's really not a very exciting place. |
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