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<i>use it <b>fondly</b> in reference to my friends that are not born here, to explain their unfamiliarity of southern ways or foods or traditions. Usually done <b>in fun</b> when the friend is 'throwing off' on a southern expression, accent or food, etc. Or if another southern friend is saying something the 'Yankee' friend may not comprehend, I may remind them that this point will be missed due to the fact that the friend is a Yankee....(& therefore please explain it so as <b>not to be rude</b>).</i>
Do you not consider it rude to keep on reminding people that "you're not from around here, are you?" All that "in fun," and "fondly" isn't fooling those of us who know what "bless your heart" really means in the South. (translation: you're a craven fool, whether you can help it or not) If you,a Southerner, were in Phila., New York, or Boston, and someone kept "fondly" calling you a "Reb" or a "Southern belle" and explaining things to you because you don't know what's going on and "let's not be rude" -- to someone who might, actually, have been living in the area for 10 or 15 years -- don't you think you might begin to chafe a little under the constant reminders and "fun"? As for your family history -- as I said about how recent some things are to people who feel they've been wronged.... This business of the "war of Northern Aggression" overlooks the fact that the Southern states seceded and thereby broke up the country. Nor did the north fire the first shot at Ft. Sumter. Nor was the South the only side that lost its brothers and sons. Nor is the Civil (as in involving internal combat between citizens) War the only war American families have endured. I lost relatives in the Revolution, in 1812, and in both World Wars and VietNam. Iraq is an interesting issue, but let's not for a minute think there's a parallel between the U.S. Civil War and Iraq. The divisions within Iraq can't be underestimated, but until the foreign troops leave, it's not a civil war. |
SharonG: Believe it or not, I don't drink sweet tea. Another generalization - maybe with some grounds, but still a generalization.
I did make a 2 qt. container of unsweetened tea yesterday( what a quest requested )but, out of the 6 adults attending, only one drinks iced tea. One wanted hot tea. My iced tea usually goes down the drain. We're water drinkers. |
Oops! That would be 'guest'.
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Exactly Soccr, couldn't have said it any better myself. We are talking about something that happened, ahem, 146 years ago;) Isn't it time to let go and move on? People in 2007 have no control over what happened one-hundred-and- fourty-six-years ago, you must now use the correct dates in every comment, it sounds so foolish. Again, this is 2007, no need for words used to insult people stemming from something so far back in the past. Live in the now. here. today. You can control the future but you can't control the past.:)
This has gotten way too silly now. Good luck travelers, I didn't mean to become very serious, just that orignal "yankee" comment brought back other fodors thread memories. |
[Do you not consider it rude to keep on reminding people that "you're not from around here, are you?" All that "in fun," and "fondly" isn't fooling those of us who know what "bless your heart" really means in the South. (translation: you're a craven fool, whether you can help it or not)]
soccr: Believe it or not, but not all Southerners use the expression 'Bless your heart'. I, for one have never uttered the phrase. But, I have heard it uttered in sincerity as well as cynically. I've heard my friend from Boston say it both ways. [If you,a Southerner, were in Phila., New York, or Boston, and someone kept "fondly" calling you a "Reb" or a "Southern belle" and explaining things to you because you don't know what's going on and "let's not be rude" -- to someone who might, actually, have been living in the area for 10 or 15 years -- don't you think you might begin to chafe a little under the constant reminders and "fun"?] Believe it or not, but I have been north of the Mason Dixon line & I have experienced just that. So, it cuts both ways. I get tired of being ridiculed one minute as the dumb, inbred southerner one minute, then cajoled the next in that ' my brother likes sweet tea & we like your southern accent' - like that's the only thing likeable about people from the south - cetainly not for anything resembling intelligence. It's like saying dance for me you stupid idiot. You can say what you like, people from 'up north' are moving here in droves & the ones I know tell me they actually like it here! I have only met one of them that I don't like (that have made this area their home). The rest I find refreshingly friendly & with great sense of humor. Some have been friends for many years. Usually, it's THEM who bring up that they aren't from around here & want to know the lay of the land so to speak. Or them bringing up the friendly banter of the 'Yankee'/Southerner kind. Such as, 'Do you people really do or eat or say ____?' Or asking the meaning of a phrase & such. Every place has their own unspoken 'understoods' that's what I was referring earlier. I certainly wouldn't have friends very long if I did what you accuse me of. Usually explaining those things to friends is what encourages the friendship. |
OSB - try being British living in the US :-)
Other person - "Can you say that again?" Me - "I'm Sorry - didn't you understand...?" Other person - "Ohhhh... yes I did, it's just that your accent is so cute" Earlier this week I was in the store and while browsing the salad dressing was asked by a complete stranger "busy day today?" I replied that it was and she said "yes I saw you in the Post Office are you from England" I took it that she was being friendly (not a stalker) and wished her a happy Thanksgiving - not that we celebrated it, we've bought a house that needs a lot of work and the weather was too good not to spend the day working on her :-) That's a whole other story though. |
OSB "Usually, it's THEM who bring up that they aren't from around here"
Entirely a matter of perception as to who starts it, I think. My perception/experience is the opposite. I've learned NEVER to bring up something that refers to being from the North or differences between North and South, because I really dislike what happens when I do -- it's an unpopular thing to do, and the result is always that Northerners ("not you, of course, you're nice") are terrible people. But do note the way you/we are still talking about "us" vs. "THEM." That's the problem. |
It's true that Northerners can have a very condescending and stereotyped ideas about Southerners. The media don't help, because when they want someone to sound like a know-nothing hick, they give him a Southern accent. The TopGear people made their choice of state to pull this ugly prank, probably based on their own stereotyped ideas and never actually having been to Alabama.
But I've also noticed that Southerners have created some of their own problem when they make their accents even heavier and pretend to be particularly thick-headed (i.e., go for the stereotype) -- either to put one over on an impatient, rude Yankee or to show that they aren't self-important, know-it-alls (like those horrible Yankees) -- just ordinary people who don't think they're better than anyone else. In that sense, you can't have it both ways. |
Geez SouthernBelle, I didn't mean to imply that I thought everyone in the South drank sweet tea. I only meant that for years my brother complained that when he put sugar in iced tea it didn't melt. When he first came to visit me I told him to order sweet tea and he thought it was brilliant!
Okay everybody take a deep breath. We are all proud of our heritage, we all sometimes get our feathers ruffled, we all sometimes say the wrong thing, and we all at times think the other person is stupid :) By the way, my father was born in Baltimore. Does that count for being part Southern? |
SharonG: My relatives that live in Maryland consider themselves 'Yankees'. North Carolina is as far north as a southern title goes in my opinion - though I realize that is not the 'official' position.
And, though I believe you were trying to sooth some feathers with the tea & accent comments, those are the two that usually follow things like this video or comments to support it. To me, it's patronizing. Now, said in a different context, without the insults preceding , I can accept as a friendly gesture. soccr: My next door neighbors are from Minnesota & New York ( Manhattan ). They often call me to ask a question pertaining to the region & often ask about southern customs/expressions during visits or outings together. They are very friendly & intelligent people who I like very much. But they DO bring up that they aren't from here- often. ...So does my Boston Co-worker. She's a hoot! We do get into it N/S conversation, but it's always in fun & she is often the instigator. I've never been offended, as we all know that we can count on one another as friends. We've cried together & celebrated life's achievements together. IMO stereotypes have a base in any region, but the southern one has been harped on until it's just overdone. When's the last time you saw something good about the south? I think you may not realize that some southern accents are very heavy - that's just the way they speak. I sometimes do a double take myself at some of it I hear. |
>>My next door neighbors are from Minnesota & New York ( Manhattan ). <<
I live in a bad neighborhood as well. :D One of our neighbors is from New York and the other is from New Hampshire. We even have one, God forbid, from Northern Alabama across the street.:) |
OleSouthernBelle: glad we can come to a friendly end. I actually started off my life in the South in Memphis and had a very hard time understanding the accents there. I do better in Nashville. Hope you don't think I was being patronizing, I am thrilled to live in the South. It is wonderful living here. I just interviewed a prospective employee who now lives in my home town of Staten Island and she loved it here too. We consider ourselves lucky to live here. Can I be an honorary Southerner?
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"North Carolina is as far north as a southern title goes in my opinion"
The next time you pass through Virginia on your WAY to Maryland, please keep your windows closed. |
I'm from NC and live in Northern Virginia. The South extends into Virginia (definitely Richmond), but certainly not into the DC Metro area (I'd say it cuts off around Fredericksburg). At no point in Maryland have I ever felt like I was in the South, except perhaps on the very Southern tip of the Delmarva peninsula. The Mason-Dixon line does not define the South, and it actually makes me laugh to think of someone from Baltimore as being Southern (I've lived there, too). But, for that matter, the Southern half of Florida is not in the South, either.
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SharonG: Yep, glad to have you! Come in 'n sit a spell (...or longer works too!).
Dukey: :)) kg8hm: You're absolutely right about that one, too! :) I love meeting new (& different people). If I didn't I wouldn't travel. That's one of the things that makes this website so interesting. You never know who you're going to 'meet'. |
So, gard, at least some would say the answer to your OP question is a resounding 'NO!'
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Two points on all this - I have just made a belated stumble over the OP -
1. You have all been had Top Gear make regular set ups round the world that are stage managed. They use infantile humour to sterotype and send up everyone and anythings - don't take it too seriously. 2. The north/south thing is also alive and well in the UK. Just think yourself lucky that you lot in the southern states had a chance to take pops at the northerners. As a solid old northerner from the UK - I would love to see independence from the bullshitty south of England. Would love to have had the chance to join a civil war (LOL) |
Markrosy: Thanks for the words of encouragement, but you'll note I stated my certainty that it was staged.
Though the video was irritating, it's the first 3 (skip 4) & 5th responses (and a few after those) that grind. I want to get along with neighbors, N-S-E-W, no matter how far the distance. The Civil War was certainly over the injustice to the black race in our country. I cannot help what transpired in the past. It surely had the proper end result, whatever atrocities incurred (as most wars DO have). I really don't see why every offensive ridicule of the south has to refer back to the Civil War. What galls me today is the injustice of the ridicule continually heaped on the South (US). |
OSB - note that you took umbrage at my first post, but please understand that all I meant when I posted it is that to get the same response in other parts of the country, they would have had to find some other issues besides Hillary and NASCAR.
That said, however, I have to say that my experience -- which is the mirror (i.e. similar but reversed) image of yours, I think -- is that it's Southerners who make a point of going back to the Civil War to trot out their grievances, and Southerners who ridicule northerners/yankees on a fairly frequent basis. When I'm up north, I just don't hear northerners spend a lot of time or energy either on the Civil War or on picking on Southerners. It's just not part of their consciousness the way that being Southern seems to be for Southerners. It's interesting just to notice that we tend to capitalize "Southerner" and not "northerner." And there just isn't a comparable term for Southerners the way "Yankee" is used for northerners. |
OSB = we to suffer injustice in the UK - this is currently financial - a lot of investment goes into the south of England and is controlled by our central government -= southerns (like certain prats on this website) think it is funny to deride the north.
Making huge generalisations I see parallels with the situation in the states. I have made 4 , 2 weesk trips to the US. " to the north and 2 to the south. From my perspective (and I am not going into specifics to avoid winding people up here) the south wins every time for a traveller. Shame most US travellers tick off London on their European tour then move on. They ignore the best of what the UK has to offer. |
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