Infant or 2 years old for flight
 

Our daughter will be 2 years and 7 days old when we arrive in Honolulu, we need to book flights to Kauai and Hawaiian airlines is charging full fare for all passengers over 2 years old, anyone with experience on how flexible this 2 year old rule is? Will they require an ID for our daughter to check her age? Should I gamble and book just 2 seats and have her sit on our laps(I sure am tempted to). I've heard of people sneaking their kids through well into their third year.

I would definately hold my child on my lap at 2 years and 7 days...and tell the airline she's like 22 months!! They don't require ID for your child.

My grandkids come from the mainland -- with ID for each of them (birth certificate), and that ID is mandatory.

If you arrive without her ID, they won't let her on the plane.

If you arrive with no ticket for her, they won't let her on the plane.

Everthing's changed since 9/11...

Book your child a seat. The FAA strongly recommends that you purchase a seat for your child.

Please read this---->
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/airplanetravel.aspx

The Pilots Assc, FA Assc, AMA, Pediatrics Assc and all professional groups highly recommend purchasing a seat for your child so they can be strapped into a FAA approved seat.

We traveled from Virginia to Florida last June (2004). I had passports for my kids and they said they did not require ID for children within the US. (They are 10 and 12.) I would call the airline and ask if infant children or children under 2, need ID. You are talking about a 30 minute flight. I would hold her on my lap for the 30 minutes. I have brought my 12 year old all the way to Hawaii from east coast on my lap when she was 15 mos. It was a long flight and not that comfortable, but 30 minutes is nothing. You wouldn't be able to strap her in without a car seat along anyway. Call the airline, if you don't need ID, than book two seats!!! 7 days! I would definitely do that!!!!

This is a highly debated topic (not the age, but holding child versus purchasing a seat) - trust me, I know. I posted about it roughly a year ago and was strongly advised (to put it nicely) to purchase my daughter (about 16mos at the time) a ticket. I considered it but the flight was full (our tickets had already been purchased). To make a long story short, I wished I had bought her a ticket. The flight there (only about 2 hours) was fine because there were seats available so she didn't have to sit on my lap. However the way home was a nightmare. The seats are so cramped as it is and she was miserable. I was passing her back & forth between dh and my parents the whole time trying to keep her calm and not kick the seat in front of us. So, for what it's worth, I'd buy the ticket. Either way, have a great trip!!

Dear Abby about flying with children

Dear Abby,

In reference to the letter from the Los Angeles plastic surgeon regarding facial disfigurement of children who are allowed to stand in a moving car, may I add my 2 cents' worth?

I am a flight attendant for a major airline, and while the captain does not usually "jam on the brakes" we DO hit unexpected turbulence. Planes can drop 500 feet in a matter of seconds. Guess where a small child who's not in a seatbelt goes? To the ceiling!

I write this out of sheer frustration with the uneducated - or perhaps lazy - parents. The FAA does not mandate that a child UNDER the age of 2 be in his or her own seat. This is shameful and absurd. We, the flight crew, are required to ensure that all carry-on luggage is safely stowed, yet our most precious cargo, these little human beings, can be on an adult's lap. I applaud parents who pay the extra money and purchase a seat for the child, and extra kudos when they bring along a car seat. If there is an extra seat available, I ALWAYS move other passengers so "lap baby" can have his or her own seat, explaining to parents that it is safer. Guess what? They give me a blank stare and say: "Oh, she won't sit still in her own seat. She'll cry. I'll just hold her"

Let me offer this graphic thought: Parents, if the plane DOES crash and your baby is on your lap, the baby becomes a human air bag for you. Your baby will die instantly. I had a passenger tearfully tell me that this happened to her. She is now crippled, and her only child (who would be 9 now) was killed.

I urge all parents and grandparents to write to Congress and insist that every passenger - even babies - be in a seat. The FAA's argument that families will not pay for the extra seat because the cost is prohibitive is unfounded. Most airlines offer a lower rate for children. The FAA says that people will turn to driving, which will cause more road accidents. This is conjecture.

I know this letter is long, but please pass along this important message. Believe me, it will be clipped by thousands of airline crews and shown to passengers.

Signed - A Concerned Flight Attendant

Dear Concerned,

You have issued a chilling warning to the parents of small children, and I sincerely hope it's one that will be heeded. A plane hitting an air pocket and suddenly losing altitude is not something we hear about every day. However, I recall that it happened to Air Force One a year or so ago, and to a commercial flight just this month - so it's something that should be taken very seriously. ALL passengers should stay buckled up while they are in their seats.

GoTravel, thank you for having the nerve to write what you did. I wanted to sooooo bad but than thought "Oh, I will be slammed like I was another time when I tried to get a message across".

Again, thank you GoTravel. I pray that every parent reads, understands and follows through with your message.

GoTravel, I agree with 99.9% of your advice. The only thing I disagree with is your statement that, "Most airlines offer a lower rate for children." International flights maybe, domestic ones rarely if ever. The impact (no pun intended) of the "air bag" discription is profound. Children should have their own seats.

I appreciate the tips here, and will probably get her a seat, we have already paid for her seat on the long leg from NY to Honolulu, was hoping to save the $150 for the flight to kauai.

As a new grandparent let me add my $.02 - is saving $150 worth the potential risk of injury to your child? Ask yourself, would you place your child in your lap while driving down the highway or going across town in your car? Most people wouldn't so why consider doing it in an airplane that is going 10 times as fast.

"....was hoping to save the $150..."

if the $150 makes a difference, just drink less expensive wine at dinner.

When we took our 2 year old and our 8 month old to Hawaii, we bought them their own seats so everyone would be comfortable. It is a $150 well spent.

I think aside from the safety and comfort issue, the larger ethical and moral issue is being ignored here. If the rule is 2 years old, then a child 2 years and one day old pays his seat, anything else is flat out lying.

knute, Bravo =D>

kamah, I'm trying to find where I wrote "most airlines offer a lower rate for kids". In all honesty, I don't know what the airlines policy is. If I wrote that, I didn't know what I was talking about and I blame it on ((D))

Hey GoTravel - wine can be blamed on a lot of goofs. Thank goodness for wine!

Safety aside, holding a squirming toddler in a small, cramped space is not my idea of fun or relaxing. When my dd was little we bought the extra seat. She always slept. Kids are used to being in their car seat and at that age they like the familiar...

Funny, yeah?
Kittens have to be in an "approved" carrier stowed safely under the seat.

Your handbag has to go in the overhead bin or under the seat so as to not knock someone in the head if turbulence rocks the plane.


Adults are not allowed to take off their seatbelts for long stretches of time on a plane when turbulence is expected.

Theme parks won't allow children under a certain height to go on many carnival rides (and not just roller coasters).

Yet helpless infants are allowed to be held unsecured on a lap on an airplane.

:-?

I see where it was now.

kamah, I didn't write that but cut and pasted.

The text was taken from a Dear Abby column and was written by a flight attendent.

Having become a recent addict of the television show Airline, I remember an episode when Southwest did require I.D. for a child that looked like she might have been two years old. Safety issues aside (which are extremely important), why take the chance of ruining your trip by trying to evade the rule? Not worth it IMHO.

If you have money for a vacation, you should have money for everyone to travel as safe as possible, otherwise stay home, or safe up a little longer.
I don't get these posts lap or no lap, it is YOUR child for gods sake, keep them safe whenever YOU can. If that means a few extra dollars for a seat so be it, better then the "if I only had..." if something should happen.
Just my humble opinion.
Safe travels to everyone :)

Snowrooster, no offense but you were pretty snotty to all of us who were trying to point out that even though you are not required to purchase a seat, the FAA and other professional organizations strongly recommend you do.

Your thinking that your child would be safer in your arms on an airplane than strapped in a seat go against the laws of gravity.

Maybe you thought we were questioning your parenting which was absolutely not the case.

Here's a link to that thread---->

http://fodors.com/forums/pgMessages....me=snowrooster

If you buy your child a seat at regular fare the airline will not ask for ID unless it is an intl. flight than requires a passport.

However, if you are attempting to carry her as a "free" lap child, you will almost always be asked for proof of age to insure that you are not taking advantage of a discount that you do not legally qualify for. Unless the child is so young as to obviously not be walking yet, you are VERY likely to be asked for ID to prove that she is eligible to fly at no cost.

Most US airlines will offer some sort of discount for a child under 2 who is occupying a seat. Most discounts disappear after the child reaches age 2; though they are more common on intl. flights, especially over-the-water flights.

Some people are seriously out of control - my gosh, it's a 30 minute flight - I don't think it's that difficult to hold a 2 year old for 30 minutes - or, that much of a safety risk! It's up to you but I really don't think you HAVE to spend the money on a seat for your child - some of the posts act like it's a life and death situation...if the plane is going down - no one will live, regardless if they have a seat or are sitting on someone's lap! Don't let people freak you out. Good luck.

Alvarki, if you read the post you will notice two things.

1) For the most part we are talking about turbulence not plane crashes. The fatality rate is high for infants in cases of severe turbulence. By holding your child in front of you, if you get slammed into the back of the seat in front of you, your infant or toddler turns into a human air bag.

2) There are documented cases of airplane crashes (United flight 232) where the only fatalities were lap babies. The rest of the passengers survivied the crash.

Is that really a chance you would like to take?

In cases of mild turbulence, gravity will multiply the weight of your child up to 20 times.

If you don't believe me, please cut and paste the links I have provided to your browser.

The flight crew must secure the coffee maker before take off but your infant doesn't have to be. Isn't there something odd there?

I urge everyone to write to your congressman and demand that the FAA require children to be secured.

Another possibility, though remote-- what if there's an explosive decompression? I'm thinking Aloha 243-- 18 feet of upper fuselage ripped off an elderly 737, and a flight attendant was swept out (she was standing under the initial separation point). Cabin objects not strapped down got sucked out as well. But everyone else survived.

United 232 was a crash where over 1/2 of the people onboard survived, with a large number walking away without a scratch. Several fatalities were indeed infants that were not secured properly.

And sure, flying through severe turbulence is a relatively remote possibility (pilots will fly around weather whenever possible), but say you do hit some hard chop-- do you want your first stop off the plane to be an emergency room, with your toddler suffering from a concussion or contusions or broken bones? Bear this in mind as well: Inter-island flights don't get up to full cruising altitude, so they fly through denser air, and these are choppier trips than a long flight at 36,000 feet. Is your kids' safety worth it? Spring for the seat.

Seriously, alvarki, why chill out?

These people are not in the minority in general, and would be very uncomfortable taking said risk with their child, for reasons already stated. The original poster of this thread was asking specifically for these types of opinions, so they were not out of place on this thread.

You don't have to agree with them, but what makes them need to chill out? I seriously don't get that.

Don't forget jlm, we are also out of control. :-D

Maybe it's time for ((D))

just forget it - I just don't see the need to completely freak this poor lady out. I have traveled extensivley throughout the U.S., Europe and to Hawaii and I have never experienced turbulence so bad that they jarred anyone out of their seats, or hurt a child on a parents lap, or hurt anyone for that matter. It would have to be a seriously severe circumstance for any of that to happen - and I just think some people are trying to scare the wits out of this poor lady.

alvarki, safety aside, you're overlooking the ethics of trying to avoid the airline's requirement. situational ethics, i think it's called. extend the logic.... i hope you don't like where it takes you.

I've never seen an alligator eat a dog out of someone's back yard, but I know it can happen.

I've never seen Anna Nicole Smith completely sober (and I've met her a few times), but I know it can happen.

I've never witnessed an accident where people were thrown out through the windshield, but I know it can happen.

So what do I do? When in swampy Florida, I don't let my animals run around in the back yard. When around Anna Nicole, I provide a shoulder for her to prop herself on. And I wear a seatbelt when driving. Or riding in a car. And I put kids in appropriate seats and restraints. End of story. It's called preparedness. And if I have to spend a bit of money for peace of mind, so be it.

And there's still that nagging ethical issue: The kid's over 2 years old. Rules are rules: Full seat, full fare. Period. Sorry.