I´ll try again to get some help
 

We are planning a trip to CA.<BR>There is a lot of bad things about San Fran on this site. So, what are the "god areas" in SF?<BR>Then, is it difficult to drive up the Pacific coast if you are from Europe?<BR>Then, what carrental should we use?<BR>And how much time should we reserv for the trip up from LA to SF?<BR>We only have 3 weeks vacation!!!!<BR>Hoteltips: How does Farmers Daughter in LA sound? And if we decide to stay in SF, how does Cow Hollow sound?<BR>Or should we skip SF and stay in Sausalito or Tiburon? Hoteltips in these areas are welcome too.

Mona - If you're having trouble getting answers, it's because you need to be more specific in your headline. "Europeans with California Trip Questions" will get you a lot of response, I'm sure. (I think Fodorites are esp eager to aid overseas visitors.)<BR><BR>It's a common mistake for visitors to this forum to think that when they click on "California" for instance, as they make their post....that the question will come up in a "California" section. That's not the case, but it's very confusing to many posters. There is only a general US-wide forum where all queries are posted.<BR><BR>Good luck!

Mona, why don't you try one more time -- and this time, think up a sensible header. And proofread this time, instead of repeating your request about "GOD" areas.

Me again, Mona! I sent off the first post, forgetting to tell you that if you do a Search clicking on California, you will bring up many, many past posts, including one that talks about the BEST of San Francisco.

Thank you both of you!<BR>But I can tell you that it isn´t so easy to first of all WRITE in english and then to get the right words in right places and to get the frases right. NOT easy when you are from Finland. Sorry!

I figured as much, Mona - and hoped you'd overlook Jen's lack of manners. It's just something that goes with the territory here.....Hope you have some luck!

Arjay!<BR>Thank you! As you can see I stole your text! Hope you don´t mind?!<BR>And if you sometimes like some help with getting around here in Europe or Scandinavia.........I´ll be there to answer your questions!

I am amazed at the rudness on this board towards somebody whose first language isn't English. This is a board about travel, not an SAT English exam or typing test. Unfortunately Mona, I can't answer your question, but hope you won't be discouraged in your search for answers because of someone else's pettiness.

Chris!<BR>No, I don´t care so much!<BR>We have these kind of people here too!<BR>But thank´s!<BR>

Mona: sorry for the rudeness of some.<BR>Most people here are quite helpful most of the time.<BR>3 weeks is PLENTY of time to see all you want to see. 1 week to drive the coast between SF and LA is plenty.<BR>What is your budget for hotels and such?<BR>Do you plan to see any of the national parks?<BR>People here are critical of SF partly because it has such a strong reputation as this beautiful, wonderful city and it's hard to live up to that in every way, and because it has slipped a bit during the past 10 years.<BR>But it's still one of the best cities in the USA to visit as a tourist.

Hey Mona! I can't exactly help you with LA hotels, someone here named Thyra would have excellent advice if she finds your thread. I can suggest staying in Santa Monica or Hollywood and avoiding staying near the airport. Get a really, really good map if you are doing to do lots of driving in LA. <BR><BR>I'd suggest you make reservations in Yosemite park as soon as you firm up your dates. You can't make them too early! Stay in Yosemite Lodge for the best location, right in the valley. You can make reservations at www.yosemitepark.com. <BR><BR>What else are you interested in seeing? Hearst Castle? Monterey, Carmel, Santa Barbara, wine country?

Susan and Mike!<BR>Ok, we are not made of money, so it has to be cheap. Something around 100 $ I think.<BR>Yes, we like parks and so on. <BR>Alcatraz is one place we must see. we didn´t have time to go there the last time we visited. Muirwoods we saw and some areas in Napa. <BR>We will stay the last 5 days in Pacific Grove so Monterey and Carmel will be visited as well.<BR>But the coast is most intresting.<BR>We will not rent a car while we are in LA, only for the drive up the coast.<BR>It´s a little sceary for us.<BR>I mean, how do you drive there. I don´t think it is as easy to drive there as it is to drive here in Finland. Not so many highways here! :)

Mona, I'm going to go out on a limb and state that it's nearly impossible to drive up the Pacific coast if you are from Europe. Not even one of those gas-guzzling SUVs is big enough!

Mona,<BR><BR>If you don't want to rent a car in Los Angeles, don't go. Public transit in the LA area is pretty much non exsistent. You basically have to drive if you want to go anyplace.<BR><BR>Get a good freeway map........and go. That is what the natives of the area seem to do. You will be going very slowly because of so much traffic. Also, make sure your car is air conditioned so you can drive with the windows up to cut down on the smog as much as possible.<BR><BR>Bring Visine for your eyes.<BR><BR>Bring Aqavite (sp). You have to look hard for it in California.<BR><BR>Native

To find the best rate for renting a car, go online and compare the prices at www.orbitz.com. Don't book it there. Then go to the car rental website and book it with them. So, if you like the price of Budget, go to www.budget.com, and rent through them. This way, you can book the car, and you don't have to pay for it all up front, and you can change your number of days for the rental if you like.If you want to be sure of a reliable company, go for Budget, Hertz, Avis or Dollar. Have a great trip!

Mona, I'm afraid you're going to need to rent a car to enjoy LA. Just remember to give the fast lane over to the natives and to use your turnsignal at all times. Our AAA has an excellent freeway map which will warn you of where you are and when you'll be getting off. There are always ways to turn around and get back on the freeway. Angelinos are actually quite good drivers although very fast and once you put that turn signal on, be prepared to change lanes right away. Don't hestitate. The drive up the coast is lovely. The only hard driving is 90 miles from Cambria to Carmel through Big Sur. If you start in the morning and just take your time (about 3-4 hours including rest stops) you'll do just fine. The city you don't want a car in is San Francisco. And, in recent months there has been a horrible lot of SF bashing---just people feeling grouchy and looking to argue. It's still one of the most beautiful cities in the U.S. and you shouldn't miss it. Turn in your car and enjoy the public transportation. The Cow Hollow area is very nice--lots of young working people (my son lives there), fun shopping and little restaurants. One hotel to look at is Pacific Heights Inn on Union Street. Another might be Hotel Reno in North beach, the old Italian neighborhood which is good walking and safe. Otherwise, there are lots of motel type places on Lombard Street near Van Ness. SF is a pretty small city so getting around is not difficult. Yes, we do have homeless and yes, we wish we didn't, but none of them has ever strangled a tourist! Come and enjoy. Just be city smart as you will be in LA or anywhere in Europe. P.S. I would use the cheapest car rental available and the smallest car you can get and plan 3-4 days to drive from LA to SF, stopping in Santa Barbara, Cambria and then somewhere in Monterey. Welcome to California. Also, never heard of the Farmers Daughter although we used to live in LA. Maybe someone who lives there now knows about it.

If you want to visit L.A. without a car don't be discouraged by other messages here. It's quite possible. I've done it. You will have to limit the places in L.A. you want to see. The last time I was there I took the train from the airport to my downtown hotel. (Actually you have to take a bus from the airport to the nearest train station, but it is fairly convenient - by American, not European, standards.) The rapid transit system goes to many things worth seeing and there is a convenient bus system called, I think DASH, or some acronym like that, that serves downtown and the L.A. County Museum Area.

Sure it's possible to see LA without renting a car, but you will find it terribly inconvenient once you are there without one. Most of the advice is to rent one and with good reason.

A car really is a good idea in LA. The good news is you can get to many places without using the freeways - unles you want to go to places like Disneyland or Laguna Beach. <BR>Do you have specific sights in mind? LA is huge. <BR>I haven't heard of the Farmer's Daughter either. <BR>Give us a few sights you are interested in going to and we can give you hotel options. Santa Monica or Beverly Hills or West Hollywood are good choices - again easy non-freeway access to many places including The Getty, the beach, Hollywood etc.

Mona,<BR>With three weeks in California, make sure you set aside some time to see some of the State's natural wonders. The cities are wonderful, but the nature is breathtaking.<BR><BR>Here is just a start:<BR>Yosemite<BR>Death Valley<BR>Lake Tahoe<BR>Pt. Reyes<BR>Mt. Shasta<BR>Bodega Bay<BR>Mendocino County<BR>The Redwoods (Muir Woods, Humbolt County, etc.)<BR>The Beaches!! (Both the more gentle beaches of Southern CA and the more rugged beaches of Northern CA)<BR><BR>This should get you started.

Everybody!<BR>Very much Thank you for all your responses!<BR>We will NOT rent a car in LA. Last time we managed to get along without a car too, so why not this time.<BR>We will walk around Fairfax and shop until we drop. We visited Farmers market last time, for about 1 hour. That is not enough. We didn´t see anything of Melrose and all that area. So I think, with the jet-lag and all, that you can survive 4 days in LA without a car. <BR>Last time we stayed in Beverly Hills, that´s why we are looking for another place this time. <BR>"A little bit of the town every visit"<BR>We´ve seen Hollywood (not so much), Hollywood Bowl, Disneyland, Universal, Santa Monica (with pier and all), Rodeo Drive (we lived near by) and so on.<BR>It was stressing to do a lot in just a week. For exampel Disneyland and the next day Universal....that was too much!!<BR>So, this time we will stroll around with no hurry.<BR>Thanks again.

Don't forget Hearst Castle!

Mona,<BR><BR>Don'y beleive these people that keep singing the praises of San Francisco. There is so much more to California than SF. I would personally focus more time in LA and San Diego for the big city experience and then enjoy the natural beauty of California ie: Montery/Carmel, Big Sur, Yosemite, and Lake Tahoe. Many people on this board have extremely biased opinions of how nice a city San Francisco is, but I fail to see what all the hype is about. Until they clean up that town, I would not recommend going there.

Mona, it seems you've seen a lot of LA, at least the "touristy" parts. If you really don't want to rent a car, and just want to stroll around, may I suggest the South Bay?<BR><BR>The three main beaches (Redondo, Hermosa, and Manhattan) all have great restaurants to offer. The shopping isn't nearly as extensive as Beverly Hills, Melrose etc (not by a long shot!) but there are boutiques, etc. There's also a small mall in Manhattan Beach, and two larger malls, Galleria at South Bay (North Redondo) and Del Amo (Torrance) which are about a 10-15 minute cab ride away from any of the three beaches. <BR><BR>If you're coming during the summer, it will be the perfect time to visit this area. It isn't as touristy, and you'll see lots of locals hanging out (and some of the most beautiful people you've ever seen!). Best of all, it's pretty close to the airport. Manhattan Beach is about 10 minutes local driving from the airport. Hermosa another 10 minutes south, and Redondo a few more minutes south. It should not cost you any more than $30 cabfare to get to anywhere in the three beach towns. <BR><BR>Manhattan Beach is considered the most affluent of the three beach towns. Redondo Beach is large, and some parts are not as "posh" (North Redondo isn't really considered beachy"<BR><BR>If you stay close to the beach (recommended) in any of the three, you really won't need a car. You can walk and take cabs. I rollerblade from the edge of hermosa to the edge of manhattan all the time...takes only 20-25 minutes. Redondo Beach will be your best bet for something reasonable. There is lodging on the beach in Hermosa as well, but nothing will be really cheap in the summer. <BR><BR>If you think you might want to stay in this area (I grew up here) feel free to shoot me an email.<BR><BR>Have a great trip.

Mina!<BR>Thank´s! It sounds great!<BR>I must talk it thru with my travelling-companion. I´ll mail you if we deside to go there, ok.

Mina,<BR>What a great recommendation for Mona! I would not have thought of that area myself, but you are right on with your comments.<BR>sharon

One more thing to consider: the Coast Starlight train from Los Angeles northward. If you took it to Santa Barbara, for instance, you'd have the 4-hour or so experience of riding (a wonderful, first-class train) right along the Pacific shore. It's much closer to the shore than the highway and almost has the feel of being on a cruise ship, because you are looking down at the water - with gulls flying below...You could do a search here; there have been past threads. The train runs all the way up to Seattle, with stops along the way...But the Santa Barbara stop would put you in the neighborhood of Hearst Castle, and you could rent your car for travel from there....

Mona, I'll second the recommendation for Manhattan Beach. It's a world away from Melrose, but a true southern California experience. You can take a cab from the airport, or the hotel you choose might even have a shuttle. There are a number of hotels in Manhattan and Hermosa Beach that are not *on* the beach but walking distance a few blocks. Many fun restaurants and shopping, plus, as Mina suggested, you can rollerblade or rent bikes and ride up and down the beach areas. No need for a car. Definitely bring the bathing suit and sunscreen!<BR><BR>Arjay's idea is a great one too. If you want to avoid doing the driving, the Coast Starlight train might be a good option. I'd imagine you can get off and spend the night in various towns on the way up, then just catch the train the next day, if you like. Check out Amtrak's website. Santa Barbara would be a good place to spend a day or two.

No problem Mona, just let me know. My email address is a valid one.<BR><BR>Sharon, a lot of "LA people" don't come down this way, which is why is seems to me a locals hangout. But it really is a great area...I would never leave!

Mona, I forgot to mention one thing (another post reminded me).<BR><BR>I don't know when you're getting here, but June and July are "June Gloom" months. The fog rolls in, and it's overcast most of the day until about 3pm. This stinks if you're near the beach. By August, it should be OK (although last year, June Gloom seemed to last all summer). By Sept/Oct, you should be in the clear (pun intended). :)

San Francisco may be the worst cities in America, but too many of its residents are lost in such a haze of self-righteous entitlement and aggrieved internecine warfare that they don't even seem to know it. And the things that are wrong with San Francisco were so many years, so many decades, in the making.<BR><BR>The local transportation system is a scandal. In Chicago one zooms around by car, "el" and cab. In San Francisco, one never zooms, anywhere, by any means. The city's bus and subway network, called Muni, is the thalidomide baby of transportation systems. As far as I can determine from the reporting on it, it's<BR>been run by incompetents for more than 20 years. The fares are about the cheapest of any major city -- only a dollar. But any politician who suggested raising fares to help the system would get laughed out of town. If you talk about curbing peoples' antisocial behavior in San Francisco, you get tagged as a Giuliani. But it's actually a fundamental quality-of-life issue for the city's weakest and mostdefenseless people. Bus drivers are too busy snarling to attempt to enforce decent behavior on the buses. Those who try get<BR>threatened and attacked. And when thugs are threatening other passengers, it drives all but the most desperate away.<BR><BR>Cabs aren't the answer because there hardly are any. In most of the city you can't depend on getting one before 9 p.m. on non-weekend nights. I'm always struck by the crowds of tourists lined up outside pricey hotels and restaurants, wanly waiting for a cab. They're probably so caught up in the romance of the city that they don't think about how pathetic it is that they have to spend an hour waiting for a ride back to their overpriced hotel.<BR><BR>The homeless are considered a mark of pride here that the city does not harass the homeless. The trouble with this is that the city does nothing to help them, either. The result is an ongoing human<BR>tragedy of epic proportions. On Haight Street, on a given Saturday,you can see dozens of teenagers and those in their 20s, fried out of their skulls, systematically killing themselves and each other. A large portion of the other homeless you see on the street are<BR>obviously victims of substance abuse of one form or another. San Franciscans view this as a laudable example of their tolerance. But for the addicted, this sort of tolerance is not so much freedom as a trap. Most San Franciscans like political positions that remove from<BR>them the responsibility to actually do something about a particular issue. The city's homeless policies coincide nicely with this tendency.<BR><BR>In terms of the cultural scene, I could never quite figure out why San Francisco is considered a cultural center. The theater scene here, particularly the mainstream commercial fare, is undistinguished. (The one superior theater company is the Berkeley Repertory, across the bay.) The music scene, save for a few underground turntablists, is unnotable. The symphony and opera are considered only decent, the museums less so. The architecture is the visual equivalent of fingernails scraping across the blackboard of the horizon, a panorama of boxy columns and clumsy attempts at attention-getting. This, too, is an effect that took decades to accomplish.<BR>

Geez, xyz, give it a rest. Do you really have the time to post such lengthy diatrabes on every single thread that has anything to do with California today? Or are you just cutting and pasting over and over? Mona has already heard all of this. <BR><BR>Incidentally, I had a fun evening in SF last night. I walked with my friend from her apartment in the Nob Hill area to the Great American Music Hall near Van Ness and heard some great music from one of my favorite bands. Then walked back up, up, up the hill. My legs are feeling it today! <BR><BR>To paraphrase Bono, San Francisco, like all cities has it's good and it has it's bad. I prefer to see the glass half-full. Adjust your attitude, xyz!

Everybody!

Yes, Everybody!<BR>That was a short note!! :)<BR>My fingers slipped.<BR>Ok, We´ll be in LA in april I think.<BR>And yes I heard all negative things about San Fran allready. But I´ll go there anyway.<BR>The train-thing sounds nice. That way we will avoid the traffic in LA. I think it is easier to drive from Santa Barbara, or is it?<BR>Maybe we´ll stay both in LA and at the places you, Mina, suggested. Thanks again. I think we will have a lovely trip....thank´s to you all that has helped us.

One more suggestion, Mona: If you really want to see some great beauty (much more so than Manhattan, Hermosa or Redondo), spend some time in the Laguna Beach area which is also a WONDERFUL walking town as well (shops, galleries, restaurants, etc.)! As a matter of fact, you could fly into the John Wayne Airport in Orange County, stay in Laguna and then start your trip up the coast from there (marvelous scenery)!! Don't forget to post a trip report upon your return!

U need a psychiatrist equipped to know what to do with IDIOT travelers, MONA!!!@!!! Stay home. San Franciso doesn't want complete ugly, FAT, fags like you. U will be chargeed$1,000.000.000 for any luggage you carry. Why, because you're too STUPID to know how to POST!!! jesus, get a clue.

Farmer's Daughter is not a nice hotel, but it is near a shopping center and close to Hollywood. I would suggest using Priceline to get a nicer hotel and request areas such as Santa Monica, Century City, and Beverly Hills.<BR><BR>As far as San Francisco, it is a great city to see. I would suggest Union Square or Fisherman's Wharf. Do not stay in the Mission. Again, I suggest using Priceline. I got a Radisson Hotel in Fisherman's Wharf across from the bay and Pier 39 for $45 a night.<BR><BR>Good luck!

Mona<BR><BR>Don't pay any attention to drlaura. This person only types nasty messages to "shock" people. This is someone with no life and no personality. We call them "Trolls".

Ok, I would like to see drlaura post something in finnish or swedish! Please do that so that I can make some ugly,fat and stupid comments about you!<BR>And remember, it MUST be correct.

It's amazing reading this thread. I must say that the people on the Europe forum are a much nicer bunch thatn this one!!<BR><BR>Go visit SF if you've never been there before. Take your time and walk around town. There is much to see. You don't need a car there. If you have time, a drive up the Pacific Coast Highway is a must. WE did that a few years back and still talking about it. It's wonderful and not to be missed!! Unless you drive like a crazy person, you should do nicely on the coastal highway.<BR><BR>With 3 weeks you have plenty of time to visit so many places, Choose carefully and plan well. We stayed at the Travelodge at Fisherman's Wharf. Nice hotel within walking distance to Ghirardelli Square and buses stops outside the hotel. THey have a small parking aread within the hotel and it's free (rare in SF). Check out Muir Woods and Sausalito.