If you are a tourist and you know it (and proud of it), clap your hands!
Sep 14th, 2006, 06:34 AM
#42
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bill_boy, according a friend of mine who now lives in Florida, but was manager of Carmines Times Square for four years, I think you've picked a poor example. Perhaps you don't patronize Carmine's and indeed a lot of tourists do, but he claims their biggest business was indeed locals and tons of repeat ones. A huge part of their business was bachelor and bachelorette parties, family birthday and anniversary celebrations, and the like. They had quite a number of families that did standing reservations for things like every Sunday night for a table for 20. It does not draw a particularly upper class clientele, but it is kept alive by a huge local (well, New Yorkers and New Jersey folks) following.
And of course, you also have to realize that it's a sort of chicken or the egg thing. The Olive Garden in Times Square is obviously mainly visited by tourists. But an Olive Garden in an outer suburb does very well with a strictly local following. The one in Times Square is filled with tourists simply because there are so many tourists in the area, not because it's any worse than the ones in the suburbs. You and I may not like Olive Garden but that doesn't mean a lot of people do, and people will flock to them -- tourists or locals alike -- but picking the one that is most convenient to where they are.
And of course, you also have to realize that it's a sort of chicken or the egg thing. The Olive Garden in Times Square is obviously mainly visited by tourists. But an Olive Garden in an outer suburb does very well with a strictly local following. The one in Times Square is filled with tourists simply because there are so many tourists in the area, not because it's any worse than the ones in the suburbs. You and I may not like Olive Garden but that doesn't mean a lot of people do, and people will flock to them -- tourists or locals alike -- but picking the one that is most convenient to where they are.
Sep 14th, 2006, 06:42 AM
#43
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I agree about Carmines. I have a lot of Manhattanite friends that go to Carmines because it is such a family friendly place.
I can't stand it when people start slamming chains.
They also employ locals and probably have more resources to give back to the community.
The touristy places cannot survive without the locals in the off season.
The so called 'locals' only places cannot survive without the tourists during season.
My husband is a restauranteur and consultant in a tourist town and has been for over 30 years.
You can walk into any of his former restaurants or his current one in July and not know a soul. You can walk into any one of his former or current restaurants in January or February and know 85% of the clientele.
One last thing, locals tend to stay home during peak tourist season.
I can't stand it when people start slamming chains.
They also employ locals and probably have more resources to give back to the community.
The touristy places cannot survive without the locals in the off season.
The so called 'locals' only places cannot survive without the tourists during season.
My husband is a restauranteur and consultant in a tourist town and has been for over 30 years.
You can walk into any of his former restaurants or his current one in July and not know a soul. You can walk into any one of his former or current restaurants in January or February and know 85% of the clientele.
One last thing, locals tend to stay home during peak tourist season.
Sep 14th, 2006, 06:49 AM
#45
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Neopol,
Carmine's in 44th Street would be the perfect example here by NYC locals on mediocre foods as they thrive on loading the table with large, very large, servings of foods that are really no better than any corner store pizza place in the city. The clienteles here are 90% tourists (and I count the ones that have to cross the river to catch a show).
We were at Carmine's 44th St. just last month (due to being invited by a former schoolmate who is touristng from Florida and is about to catch a show). Perhaps it's one of your favorite restaurant, and it's been 8 years since I last found myself there , and good lord, the food sucked so bad !!! It's much worse than I recalled it to be!
Locals have had better success at their UWS branch (91st Street) - somehow the food, I heard, is better.
Carmine's in 44th Street would be the perfect example here by NYC locals on mediocre foods as they thrive on loading the table with large, very large, servings of foods that are really no better than any corner store pizza place in the city. The clienteles here are 90% tourists (and I count the ones that have to cross the river to catch a show).
We were at Carmine's 44th St. just last month (due to being invited by a former schoolmate who is touristng from Florida and is about to catch a show). Perhaps it's one of your favorite restaurant, and it's been 8 years since I last found myself there , and good lord, the food sucked so bad !!! It's much worse than I recalled it to be!
Locals have had better success at their UWS branch (91st Street) - somehow the food, I heard, is better.
Sep 14th, 2006, 07:09 AM
#46
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Clapping wildly! If you don't visit the places the tourists go, where are you going? The suburbs? While my neighborhood is lovely, it's only fun if you live here.
I don't mind staying in neighborhoods that are a wee bit out of the way when I'm going to be in a city for a few days.
You have to wonder what these people who don't try out touristy places are thinking. Maybe they let some imaginary critic control their trip. Like the story they will tell when they get back. Oh, if they only knew, how little anyone will care.
"unlike Europe most Japanese LOVE Americans (and even if they didn't they would never be rude to you)."
I really don't understand this comment. I can think of only 1 instance in Europe where someone was even bordering on impolite. In Paris people went out of their way to help and even if I don't wear white sneakers, there is no mistaking me for anything but American.
I don't mind staying in neighborhoods that are a wee bit out of the way when I'm going to be in a city for a few days.
You have to wonder what these people who don't try out touristy places are thinking. Maybe they let some imaginary critic control their trip. Like the story they will tell when they get back. Oh, if they only knew, how little anyone will care.
"unlike Europe most Japanese LOVE Americans (and even if they didn't they would never be rude to you)."
I really don't understand this comment. I can think of only 1 instance in Europe where someone was even bordering on impolite. In Paris people went out of their way to help and even if I don't wear white sneakers, there is no mistaking me for anything but American.
Sep 14th, 2006, 07:13 AM
#47
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GoTravel, there are tourist spots that don't really have an off season: Bruges is one of them. During its slowest period (basically a few weeks in January), the owners of the most touristy restaurants simply go on vacation. And the "locals only" restaurants we like in Brussels really don't need tourists for their business. Tourists make up about 1-5% at most of their business year round. The Three Crabs survives in Dungeness (strictly speaking, it's not really in Sequim) because it literally is the only restaurant there. And once you leave Sequim, it's a good half hour's drive to PT or to PA. So it benefits from a captive audience in the off season and groups in the tourist season.
Moreover, restaurants may be lucky to benefit from a nondiscriminating clientele. Growing up, one of the most popular restaurants near us served atrocious food swimming in grease. Out of town guests were astounded by its popularity. Some of the busiest places where we live now serve food that would appall most tourists.
As they say, every tree can get a bird to perch on it.
Moreover, restaurants may be lucky to benefit from a nondiscriminating clientele. Growing up, one of the most popular restaurants near us served atrocious food swimming in grease. Out of town guests were astounded by its popularity. Some of the busiest places where we live now serve food that would appall most tourists.
As they say, every tree can get a bird to perch on it.
Sep 14th, 2006, 07:20 AM
#48
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to blm1: you posted: "I remember panicking for about a minute over what kind of shoes I should wear in Italy last year so that I wouldn't "stand out" as a tourist. Then I remembered: Ohh yeahhh, it's not as though I'm going to fool anyone just because I'm wearing European-looking shoes. The fact that we're holding a map, and can't speak their language, now that might give us away as tourists. But who cares?? Everyone was nice to us anyway!"
That gave me a good laugh--it is SO TRUE! Thepeople who live in large cities in this country and in Europe, say NYC and London for example, accept the presence of tourists as part of their daily lives. When I travel here in the US for work, I wear a "uniform" --a basic suit that goes anywhere with minimum fuss. I'm sure that when I step out of the conference hotel to do a bit of sightseeing, everyone in that city knows I'm not a native! And when we travel in Europe for vacations, we dress modestly and comfortably, keeping the climate and terrain in mind. They WILL know we're tourists! But we are always polite, pleasant, and patient--and that is the key to killing off the Ugly American label.
That gave me a good laugh--it is SO TRUE! Thepeople who live in large cities in this country and in Europe, say NYC and London for example, accept the presence of tourists as part of their daily lives. When I travel here in the US for work, I wear a "uniform" --a basic suit that goes anywhere with minimum fuss. I'm sure that when I step out of the conference hotel to do a bit of sightseeing, everyone in that city knows I'm not a native! And when we travel in Europe for vacations, we dress modestly and comfortably, keeping the climate and terrain in mind. They WILL know we're tourists! But we are always polite, pleasant, and patient--and that is the key to killing off the Ugly American label.
Sep 14th, 2006, 07:49 AM
#50
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I am the worst kind of tourist, and you know me well.
I am the guy that strikes up conversations with you and other tourists in Hotel elevators, restaurants, museums, public transportation, crosswalks and even cable cars. Topics? Anything from local customs to geo-politics, to sharing helpful information and just idle conversation about how they are enjoying their vacation. If they are locals, I will ask for directions and other helpful information. People are so willing to share, and TALK! That is part of the experience for them as well. I enjoy that as much as touring. People make the world go around, and I make my wife dizzy getting involved with them.
I recall the chef from France some years ago who asked how I liked President Clinton, the cable car discussion on European politics, the bus stop conversation with some Aussies on sights to see. They asked if I was interested in touring with them the next day! We laughed.
I was once invited to a room by Japanese tourists in Hawaii to sample beers. That was a memorable experience!
Enthusiasm is catchy and that makes for a fun, invigorating and informative trip.
I do however stay clear of the clap. >
<
I am the guy that strikes up conversations with you and other tourists in Hotel elevators, restaurants, museums, public transportation, crosswalks and even cable cars. Topics? Anything from local customs to geo-politics, to sharing helpful information and just idle conversation about how they are enjoying their vacation. If they are locals, I will ask for directions and other helpful information. People are so willing to share, and TALK! That is part of the experience for them as well. I enjoy that as much as touring. People make the world go around, and I make my wife dizzy getting involved with them.
I recall the chef from France some years ago who asked how I liked President Clinton, the cable car discussion on European politics, the bus stop conversation with some Aussies on sights to see. They asked if I was interested in touring with them the next day! We laughed.
I was once invited to a room by Japanese tourists in Hawaii to sample beers. That was a memorable experience!
Enthusiasm is catchy and that makes for a fun, invigorating and informative trip.
I do however stay clear of the clap. >
<
Sep 14th, 2006, 08:03 AM
#51
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Btilke, are you in the restaurant business?
If so than you know what you are writing about simply isn't true.
My husband and I have restaurant friends from all over the world and even those little ten table hidden gems rely on tourists.
After all, how would YOU know where those restaurants are located?
If a place is good, word gets out and believe me, no owner is going to turn down the tourist trade.
If so than you know what you are writing about simply isn't true.
My husband and I have restaurant friends from all over the world and even those little ten table hidden gems rely on tourists.
After all, how would YOU know where those restaurants are located?
If a place is good, word gets out and believe me, no owner is going to turn down the tourist trade.
Sep 14th, 2006, 08:54 AM
#53
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Oh Bear900 !! You're my kind of tourist! 
.
I drive my husband crazy, because I do the same thing, I talk to EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. My travels are most fondly remembered for the people I meet.
He is always so surprised that people are so nice to me wherever we go. I say it's because they can see I'm really interested in not only the place I'm visiting but the culture and lives of the people who live there.
DH tells everyone I learned how to speak French just because I couldn't stand not being able to talk to people we met along our travels. He is perfectly right, I love chatting with people and sharing how our lives are different and how they are the same.
If fact I remember my travels more as "the day we met that nice Belgian couple who shared their wine with us" instead of the day we saw the "Whatever museum".
One French lady who shared the finish line of the Tour de France with me for about 4 hours said I was the first American she had ever had a conversation with. I found that to be humbling, she said that people who don't work in tourism never meet Americans, so they have no idea what we are really like, they think we are just like the characters in TV shows or movies. She told me it was nice to meet someone who was just like her, I took that as a compliment, we were two ordinary women sharing stories of our lives.
And as for "tourity" vs "non-touristy" sites. Whenever DH snidely says "oh that's just a tourist trap" my reply is a resounding "Yeah!!! Tourist here! Ready, Willing, and Wanting to be Trapped" LOL !
.I drive my husband crazy, because I do the same thing, I talk to EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. My travels are most fondly remembered for the people I meet.
He is always so surprised that people are so nice to me wherever we go. I say it's because they can see I'm really interested in not only the place I'm visiting but the culture and lives of the people who live there.
DH tells everyone I learned how to speak French just because I couldn't stand not being able to talk to people we met along our travels. He is perfectly right, I love chatting with people and sharing how our lives are different and how they are the same.
If fact I remember my travels more as "the day we met that nice Belgian couple who shared their wine with us" instead of the day we saw the "Whatever museum".
One French lady who shared the finish line of the Tour de France with me for about 4 hours said I was the first American she had ever had a conversation with. I found that to be humbling, she said that people who don't work in tourism never meet Americans, so they have no idea what we are really like, they think we are just like the characters in TV shows or movies. She told me it was nice to meet someone who was just like her, I took that as a compliment, we were two ordinary women sharing stories of our lives.
And as for "tourity" vs "non-touristy" sites. Whenever DH snidely says "oh that's just a tourist trap" my reply is a resounding "Yeah!!! Tourist here! Ready, Willing, and Wanting to be Trapped" LOL !
Sep 14th, 2006, 09:07 AM
#54
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Go Travel, I know of those restaurants are in Brussels because I live there.
Also, you are twisting what I said. I NEVER said a restaurant would or should turn down tourists. What I DID say is that the restaurants that cater almost exclusively to tourists and are shunned by the locals--well, those restaurants are not the ones that offer the best food and best ambience at the best price. If a restaurant can't build a repeat clientele and has to rely solely on people passing through, then there's usually a reason.
Also, you are twisting what I said. I NEVER said a restaurant would or should turn down tourists. What I DID say is that the restaurants that cater almost exclusively to tourists and are shunned by the locals--well, those restaurants are not the ones that offer the best food and best ambience at the best price. If a restaurant can't build a repeat clientele and has to rely solely on people passing through, then there's usually a reason.
Sep 14th, 2006, 09:10 AM
#55
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Celticharper (love the name btw) - you're my DH's kind of traveler!
He was not enjoying himself and frustrated in Japan because he could NOT stike up a conversation.
Halfway through the trip we had a waiter/bartender who was interested in conversing. It ended up being a three way conversation between DH, DS and said bartender. It was so fun! He gave us a free sample of a sake (the conversation topic) that smelled and tested just like green apple candy without the sweetness. That night stands out as one of the more enjoyable on our trip.
After that DH was soooo much happier. Several times men would strike up English conversations with him. I guess he looks as approacable as he is.
He was not enjoying himself and frustrated in Japan because he could NOT stike up a conversation.
Halfway through the trip we had a waiter/bartender who was interested in conversing. It ended up being a three way conversation between DH, DS and said bartender. It was so fun! He gave us a free sample of a sake (the conversation topic) that smelled and tested just like green apple candy without the sweetness. That night stands out as one of the more enjoyable on our trip.
After that DH was soooo much happier. Several times men would strike up English conversations with him. I guess he looks as approacable as he is.
Sep 14th, 2006, 09:18 AM
#57
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I'd like to hope I graduated from tourist, & am now participating in advanced traveling classes. I don't skip places because they are 'touristy' but I do avoid MB (& South of the Border) like the plague. Even though I vacation less than a hour away, several times a year. There are some other places that have been 'ruined' in my opinion since I first visited them - Inner Harber in Baltimore & Cape May both come to mind. By the same token I avoid any Disney related place, or item, as well. I guess I am more against the Commercialism than the 'touristy' moniker.
Sep 14th, 2006, 09:35 AM
#58
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Wasn't me Bear900 I have never complained that anyone talked too much, in fact I was probably the one who was talking your ear off.
Angethereader I can understand your husband completely. I speak French fairly well now and this past year learned enough Italian to get along for our visit to the Dolomites but I almost died of frustration, that I couldn't hold a real conversation. Next year Italian & German.
Since we usually visit places & villages so off the beaten path noone speaks English I don't have a choice, if we want to eat, I learn the language.
Angethereader I can understand your husband completely. I speak French fairly well now and this past year learned enough Italian to get along for our visit to the Dolomites but I almost died of frustration, that I couldn't hold a real conversation. Next year Italian & German.
Since we usually visit places & villages so off the beaten path noone speaks English I don't have a choice, if we want to eat, I learn the language.
Sep 14th, 2006, 10:52 AM
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Opening a can of worms, I guess, but I can't understand the people who go to Hawaii for the first time and skip Oahu because it is so touristy. Yes, Waikiki is crowded; but maybe that's because it's one of the prettiest places in the world. (You don't have to buy the tee shirt.)
I have to admit I avoided Rock City because of those painted barns for years until my sister asked my daughter and me to go along with them when my nephew was two. He was enchanted with the nature walk and the small deer, and he loved the big room in the cave that has the huge table with all the nursery rhyme characters. He said, "Oh, Mama! All our stories!" I've been a fan ever since, and any time we have a new two-year-old in the family, we make another visit.
I have to admit I avoided Rock City because of those painted barns for years until my sister asked my daughter and me to go along with them when my nephew was two. He was enchanted with the nature walk and the small deer, and he loved the big room in the cave that has the huge table with all the nursery rhyme characters. He said, "Oh, Mama! All our stories!" I've been a fan ever since, and any time we have a new two-year-old in the family, we make another visit.
