Austin

I don't have much to add to this, (agree Ryan and the missus did the right thing. Knocking on the door would have been a good idea too - perhaps) but if this man is slapping his TEENS, my guess is that this kind of thing has been going on for quite some time in the family.

GoTravel

Oaktown, I'm puzzled. Instead of calling the front desk, why didn't you call the police initially? If you know there is violence going on, a skelatal hotel crew isn't go to be of much good in the middle of the night, they aren't trained for that, and if they are hitting each other they will attack a hotel employee who tries to intervene.

JJ5

Oaktown traveler: I used to think exactly like you do. And I usually do go overboard and put myself into a crack. BUT there are people who get shot in two seconds every day that do less confrontation than you have. By grabbing someone's arm you could also be charged with assault yourself with the "right" witnesses. You have been lucky, I have a thin scar down the middle of my chest that is more than 40 years old. Total stranger and no robbery involved, just wrong place,wrong bus stop, wrong time, wrong language, right long dark hair. You can't know the motivations or emotions of another person.

And although I don't agree with him/her for the most part, beachbum asks some questions that are intrinsic to this decision- especially when you travel abroad- and in light of this exact era's verbalized rancor and division against an incumbent president. It's a very fine line to put your own values upon those behind closed doors for slaps, and yet close your eyes to hacking genocide in Africa or treatment of women in Mideast which has gotten worse and worse for the last 15 years. Tons of other examples. What makes you entitled? What makes your way "right"?Why was Hitler appeased and appeased by International Organizations as they are doing once again to the monsters out there.

And GoTravel - Spare the rod, spoil the child quote means that if you spare the rod (don't spank) then it will follow that the end result will be a spoiled, willful, and rude child. Classrooms that did NOT spank in the last century were censured. That quote was like a golden rule and was put on samplers (embroidered) right next to the ruler, rod, or paddle that was used. It means, DO SPANK, by all means.

And also about the Orwell correlation. Yes, there is a bridge. Hilary's book makes my blood steam. In this PC time, big brother IS watching and that was way, way before the Patriot Act.They are putting ads in papers today to report your own neighbors for child seat or whatever violations. Why is the village's way more important than the parent's way? And who should have the ultimate responsability for supporting those children they give birth to- PARENTS. And why do laws only apply to some in this PC world. Yes they do.

reneeinva

Ryan - Thank you for doing something.

I was a Child Protective Services worker for five years and I do believe I have almost seen it all.

Since then, I have returned lost, wandering children to their parents so many times that my eldest son has called me "a super hero for lost kids."

I call the police when I see people leave their children in cars.

I have chased someone out of a restaurant to get his license plate number after he knocked the manager unconscious. I ended up being the only restaurant patron to go to court and testify.

I have done all of these things because I felt that it was the right thing to do. I have not thought twice before I have done any of them. My husband is a police officer. I know all of the horrible things that can happen when people intervene. But I cannot even imagine how I would feel if I chose to do nothing and something happened.

Please, do not be one of the people who stand to the side and do nothing while something is going on. If you do not want to intervene, get on the phone or go and find someone else who can.

xxxx

If the situation were so severe that it required immediate attention, security should have been called.

Another option to immediately diffuse the situation would have been to knock at the door and be gone before anyone had time to open it.

Directly involving yourself in someone else's emotional crisis is not wise. I work in prison...the horror stories you hear about situations such as Ryan's where innocent bystanders become involved are not all urban legend.

I can't agree with your strongly worded note suggesting counseling. Whether this behavior was normal for their family or simply a parent pushed to the edge, do you really think they care what you think or will seek counseling because a stranger leaves a note?

Barbara

I hate posts like this. Ryan, while your concern is admirable, you have no idea what was happening. You may have heard "slapping" and shouting, but you are assuming a lot. Teens are not the same as very young kids. Sometimes they do really wrong things, especially boys.If you heard this one time only, then I think you should have minded your own business. If it went on all the time you were there, then that might have been different. Also, as someone else mentioned, you assumed that the teens were the ones being slapped, but maybe it was the wife. That would not be good either, but the point is that you didn't know. I hope you keep this experience in mind when your young kids are older, more likely to challenge what you tell them and much more likely to embarrass you.

beachbum

JJ5, you may not agree with me, but I think I agree with you.

One final (I promise) reflection, prefaced by the reminder that I've never spanked my kids, and try my absolute best not to mentally "abuse" them. Have any of you ever had your children try to manipulate you by threatening to turn you in for child abuse? What ARE we doing.......

Ryan

Barbara, you may hate posts like this. But what I hate more is someone who beats the cr*p out of their child - and my wife had no doubt that this is what was occuring.

As some have pointed out, we didn't know what was happening in that room. But, likewise you weren't the one who heard the sounds, all of the sounds, eminating from that room. My wife is a very accomplished Wall Street executive who overcame growing up in a house with a father who fit the stereotype of the tough Irish cop who relieves the stress of his job with a bottle and a few belts once they return home.

She may not have known exactly what was occurring, but she had a pretty good idea.

BTW, we have zero doubt that interceding, in even the most minor way that we did, was the right thing to do. My point of asking wasn't to receive vindication to quell doubts, but to see how other's would have responded.

k_999_9

You mean, there's someone out there who actually READ Hillary's book?

OO

You really should not get involved directly. You have no idea what is on the other side of that door!

We had a situation while we were living in the hotel my husband was running in Savannah, in which a guest down the hall from us appeared to be beating his wife, yelling, furious, angry words. I asked DH if he wasn't going to do something and his response was the proper channel was security. He called; they came. The husband answered the door and said everything was OK, it was just a little argument. Security didn't let it go at that. They insisted that they see and speak with the wife as well. She had been crying but appeared to be OK. They talked more, he was warned about further disturbances and she was given security's card if she "needed anything". That approach, by someone trained in non-confrontational intervention, calmed him down and there were no more noises from their room.

JJ5

Yes, I've read Hillary's book. I actually thought she had a point at one time. Now I know better.

And beachbum, yup, I had one that tried that on me too. She's brilliant and found out that she could escape consequences with the pathetic "child abuse" whisper and eyes to a coach or teacher- whenever she didn't get something she wanted. She's a terrific professional today and you can't get anything past her, believe me- because she knows how that plays out, allright.

Ryan did one of the best things that he could do. It just is NOT a good idea to confront a behind doors situation that you don't know as much about as you think you do.

lenleigh

Ryan, I think you did exactly what you could and should have done in your situation.

About 4 years ago when we first got married my husband and I were living in an apartment while our house was under construction. We thought a single man (either in the airforce or army) lived above us until one day a woman and pre-teenager son were suddenly living there. One night we heard a terrible fight break out and you could hear him slamming doors and pushing things around and screaming at her while she was crying. We called the police and asked the woman twice if she was alright, if he was abusing her but she wouldn't admit to anything. I am sure he had a clear idea of who called the police, though we had little contact with him prior.

A couple of days after that first fight, the mom and son knocked on our door asking if we had seen their cat. The way they acted, I had a bad feeling the dad had either let it go or killed it and gotten rid of it.

After that we ended up calling the police on two or three other occasions and it really just egged him on. Sadly, they didn't have enough evidence to arrest him. I even tried to contact his superiors at work since he was in the military. Eventually they were asked to leave the complex or be evicted by the apartment management. The day he moved out, his son was with him and when we walked out to our car they taunted us and cursed at us. I shudder to think what kind of man that boy is going to grow up to be. It made me furious that the mom wouldn't stand up for herself and protect her child. When they moved I never saw her but I hoped that she had moved out on her own with her son.

GoTravel

"It made me furious that the mom wouldn't stand up for herself and protect her child."

lenleigh, abuse doesn't happen overnight. It slowly escalates to the point of where the woman is incapable of being able to do anything. She can't help herself let alone her son.

Did you realize that the majority of women incarcerated today for murder are there because the killed someone who was abusing them physically?

lenleigh

Gotravel, while I completly agree with you about abuse not happening over night I am not sure why you felt the need to make a comment like this to me.

It made me furious because I would not put up with a man that did that to me let alone my child. I have seen a family member suffer through an verbally and possibly phiscally abusive relation which is now ending in divorce. Unfortunatly, she attempted several times during the past 5 years to leave him but just went right back to him. Now two kids are involved and she has to be strong and fight the urge to try to work it out with a lier, cheater and stealing man who hardly lifts a finger to take care of her or his kids. Please don't lecture me about this topic.

JJ5

Believe me, there are no winners in these situations.

I could only handle being a Crisis Counselor who manned "the phone" at our Crisis Center for just under 2 years. I just couldn't do one more check in with someone who I'd seen 2 times before. I burnt out very quick with this regime. One time I saw a beautiful manicured and dressed soccer mom on a check-in who was a real sweetie, with two little kids- got them all bedded and fed and had their schedules made out for next two days. Guess what, she went home. Her husband was a DOCTOR in the local hospital. She died of a hematoma two days later- he smacked her head down on the granite of her own kitchen counter. Afterwards is hard too, I could tell she couldn't lower herself to the quality of sheets we had, let alone lower all her standards and expectations. She was wrong. Don't be mad at the victims, just try to help them if you can.

atilla

Ryan I think you did the right thing 100%. I also think that is exactly how I would have handled the situation. Your response to the situation was appropriate in my view.

threehearts

Ryan,
I also believe you did the right thing. You may not have known all of the details but you felt the situation was threatening to persons in this family. I am very close to a situation now, where a child-abuser was allowed to continue his assaults because his co-workers didn't want to say anything. Thank you for doing something and at the very least, giving the matter some thought. Threehearts

gracieb

I'm glad you did something. A high school friend took his own life a few years ago. He was beat regularly and we all "knew" - but the family was "respectable" and so no one did anything or even acknowledged anything. After his death, we wondered what might have been different for him if someone had done something anytime during those years. I'm not sure what the "right thing" to do was, but I am proud of you for doing something.

Dreamer2

Oh, God, Gracie, that is horrible. I'm so sorry.

I think you did the right thing, Ryan, by not directly confronting the lunatic, but by trying to help. I honestly think the letter was probably disregarded in the end, but how can one ignore such a situation?

As others have said, though, no one can be sure what goes on behind closed doors. The father could have been slapping the desk, or his own legs or hands in frustration, or as a way of controlling his wanting to lash out.

If I truly thought someone was in danger in a hotel room, I think I'd call for security to check in.

gracieb

The father was retired military. If anything was mentioned the rationale was that he was "just strict". We later learned that our friend wore padding (layers of shorts, etc) whenever they went on road trips because without fail he was hauled out by the side of the road for a "spanking" with a belt...and this was when he was in his teens. His mother and sisters watched but were afraid to do anything.

The b@%&@*& father had the nerve to tell a friend at the funeral that he wished his son had been "a good boy like you".

I can only imagine that it would have been a gift for someone to at least acknowledge that what was going on what "not right" even if they couldn't do anything.

I have to think that any interruption or input from strangers can only confirm to the children being emotionally or physically abused that what is going on is NOT normal or right.