How to convince hotels that non-smoking rooms are not "optional"?
Jun 26th, 2002, 06:15 AM
#61
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The last few posts suggest that people have lost track of why I originally posted. It was because many hotels DO REFUSE to guarantee non-smoking rooms because they consider them just a matter of preference that I proposed we try to get them to change that policy.
I believe that the reverse should be true, that a smoking room should be considered a preference but not guaranteed, and that smokers are the ones with disabilities (it's called an addiction).
I believe that the reverse should be true, that a smoking room should be considered a preference but not guaranteed, and that smokers are the ones with disabilities (it's called an addiction).
Jun 26th, 2002, 08:35 AM
#62
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Mark - I completely agree with you.
Now, as one who once worked in Hospitality (they should remember that word!), I can only say that the only reason smoking/non-smoking isn't always guaranteed is LAZINESS.
Why should that preference be any harder to deliver than king bed vs suite vs 2-standard? Only that it takes more effort to set up the hotel configuration in the computer, and now you must give more choices to potential customers as to "room type".
They won't guarantee because they don't want a smoker or a non-smoker declining to reserve due to which room type is/isn't available. They wish their cake and to eat it too. Walking from places that don't deliver is the only way to send them a message: their revenues!
Now, as one who once worked in Hospitality (they should remember that word!), I can only say that the only reason smoking/non-smoking isn't always guaranteed is LAZINESS.
Why should that preference be any harder to deliver than king bed vs suite vs 2-standard? Only that it takes more effort to set up the hotel configuration in the computer, and now you must give more choices to potential customers as to "room type".
They won't guarantee because they don't want a smoker or a non-smoker declining to reserve due to which room type is/isn't available. They wish their cake and to eat it too. Walking from places that don't deliver is the only way to send them a message: their revenues!
Jun 26th, 2002, 08:46 AM
#63
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I have sympathy for those with severe allergies and can't handle any smoke whatsoever.
Although we always request a non-smoking room, I for one will not go to the inconvenience of walking away from a hotel that is the perfect location, a clean hotel and the right price (hopefully w/operable windows), AND running the risk of a last minute cancellation charge on the credit card that they already have. I just chalk it up to "Life". I'll let you guys do the walking. Lou
Although we always request a non-smoking room, I for one will not go to the inconvenience of walking away from a hotel that is the perfect location, a clean hotel and the right price (hopefully w/operable windows), AND running the risk of a last minute cancellation charge on the credit card that they already have. I just chalk it up to "Life". I'll let you guys do the walking. Lou
Jun 26th, 2002, 09:55 AM
#64
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Mark,
I don't doubt that there are hotels that won't guarantee non-smoking rooms
But since there are so many that do, it's easy. I just make reservation withe the hotels that will guaranted the room . IT seem sthat most better hotels are willing to do this.
Hotels allowing you to guarantee a non-smoking room include:
Marriott
Renaissance Hotels
Courtyard
Residence Inn and all other MArriott properties
Hilton®
Conrad™
Doubletree®
Embassy Suites Hotels®
Hilton Garden nn®
Hampton Inn®
Hampton Inn & Suites®
Homewood Suites® by Hilton Hotels
and many, many more
This is a non issue as far as I'm concerned. I stay at hotels that will guarantee me non-smoking and have NEVER had a problem.
I don't doubt that there are hotels that won't guarantee non-smoking rooms
But since there are so many that do, it's easy. I just make reservation withe the hotels that will guaranted the room . IT seem sthat most better hotels are willing to do this.
Hotels allowing you to guarantee a non-smoking room include:
Marriott
Renaissance Hotels
Courtyard
Residence Inn and all other MArriott properties
Hilton®
Conrad™
Doubletree®
Embassy Suites Hotels®
Hilton Garden nn®
Hampton Inn®
Hampton Inn & Suites®
Homewood Suites® by Hilton Hotels
and many, many more
This is a non issue as far as I'm concerned. I stay at hotels that will guarantee me non-smoking and have NEVER had a problem.
Jun 26th, 2002, 11:09 PM
#68
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Dick-
I pointed out that story in Conde Nast to refer to hotel policies(meaning if the hotel was that unsympathetic about an accident then how would they treat you regarding a last minute cancelation due to a smoking room). In my opinion I think not refunding the deposit (due to an accident) is pretty harsh compared to not getting your room type. It is a matter of Life vs Comfort. I understand what you mean about your hotel saying your preference for a non-smoking room is guarenteed. What I am saying is this: I worked for a 4 Diamond hotel with 400 rooms (primarily) business travelers which "guarenteed" reservations but still oversold the hotel. My point is that hotels are going to tell you your res/preference is guarenteed but there will definitly be times when they will not hold up to either of those statements. You can probably ask any frequent business traveler that stays in Hiltons,Hyatts, Sheratons, etc... and they will have some sort of story. You said this has never happened to you but I guarentee the hotels you listed have broken those guarentees. The day that this happens to you, I would hate to be the person behind the front desk. If you really think about it, isn't that statement almost an oxymoron? "We guarentee your preference". To me it gets tricky when they use the word request or preference. I don't prefer a non-smoking room, I WANT a non-smoking room.
Mark-
I don't think we have really lost site of your original post. Believe it or not, even a smoking room is a preference and there have been smokers that have not been given smoking rooms. Obviously a smoker would have an easy solution to that however. I think what you really want is more non-smoking rooms and a lot less smoking rooms(or none at all) offered. I don't disagree.
R-Travels-
I completly disagree with your statement that this is about Lazy people. Not sure what type of hotel you worked for (I have worked for 3, a business hotel,leisure hotel chain and another local leisure hotel all of which were 4 diamond hotels) but laziness is not the issue. Overbooking/high occupancy rates and even DNR rooms(do not rent due to remodeling/repair issues) are the cause of people not getting their prefered room type. Many people also do not get King beds/doubles/queens like they requested due to those issues. If it were about lazy people all you have to do is go back to the front desk and ask for a different room and you shall receive.
I pointed out that story in Conde Nast to refer to hotel policies(meaning if the hotel was that unsympathetic about an accident then how would they treat you regarding a last minute cancelation due to a smoking room). In my opinion I think not refunding the deposit (due to an accident) is pretty harsh compared to not getting your room type. It is a matter of Life vs Comfort. I understand what you mean about your hotel saying your preference for a non-smoking room is guarenteed. What I am saying is this: I worked for a 4 Diamond hotel with 400 rooms (primarily) business travelers which "guarenteed" reservations but still oversold the hotel. My point is that hotels are going to tell you your res/preference is guarenteed but there will definitly be times when they will not hold up to either of those statements. You can probably ask any frequent business traveler that stays in Hiltons,Hyatts, Sheratons, etc... and they will have some sort of story. You said this has never happened to you but I guarentee the hotels you listed have broken those guarentees. The day that this happens to you, I would hate to be the person behind the front desk. If you really think about it, isn't that statement almost an oxymoron? "We guarentee your preference". To me it gets tricky when they use the word request or preference. I don't prefer a non-smoking room, I WANT a non-smoking room.
Mark-
I don't think we have really lost site of your original post. Believe it or not, even a smoking room is a preference and there have been smokers that have not been given smoking rooms. Obviously a smoker would have an easy solution to that however. I think what you really want is more non-smoking rooms and a lot less smoking rooms(or none at all) offered. I don't disagree.
R-Travels-
I completly disagree with your statement that this is about Lazy people. Not sure what type of hotel you worked for (I have worked for 3, a business hotel,leisure hotel chain and another local leisure hotel all of which were 4 diamond hotels) but laziness is not the issue. Overbooking/high occupancy rates and even DNR rooms(do not rent due to remodeling/repair issues) are the cause of people not getting their prefered room type. Many people also do not get King beds/doubles/queens like they requested due to those issues. If it were about lazy people all you have to do is go back to the front desk and ask for a different room and you shall receive.
Jun 27th, 2002, 05:55 AM
#69
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Lenleigh,
Let me try to explain. If you take away the reasons, they are two separate situations.
In the first a guest failed to show up or cancel (Although due to illness) and the hotel was not allowed the opportunity to rerent the room. I'm not even sure if they would have considered death to be a valid reason for a now show. Kind of like not showing up for a non-refundable airline ticket. They keep the money.
In the other instance, the hotel was unable to provide the room Obviously the non-somking room was being rented by another guest and the hotel is not out the money. They have no right to keep your money. Although the desk clerk , might be uncooperative, you can be sure that as a business practice no corporation wants to fight to keep your money when they didn't have your room.
Kind of like an over booked airline has to compensate you if you are involuntarily bumped( even with a non-refundable ticket).
As a practical matter, I try for early check-in ( before all the rooms are assigned).
If I'm checking in late, I make it a point to call the hotel to let them know I wil be arrivinng and reconfirming my non-smoking room.
Let me try to explain. If you take away the reasons, they are two separate situations.
In the first a guest failed to show up or cancel (Although due to illness) and the hotel was not allowed the opportunity to rerent the room. I'm not even sure if they would have considered death to be a valid reason for a now show. Kind of like not showing up for a non-refundable airline ticket. They keep the money.
In the other instance, the hotel was unable to provide the room Obviously the non-somking room was being rented by another guest and the hotel is not out the money. They have no right to keep your money. Although the desk clerk , might be uncooperative, you can be sure that as a business practice no corporation wants to fight to keep your money when they didn't have your room.
Kind of like an over booked airline has to compensate you if you are involuntarily bumped( even with a non-refundable ticket).
As a practical matter, I try for early check-in ( before all the rooms are assigned).
If I'm checking in late, I make it a point to call the hotel to let them know I wil be arrivinng and reconfirming my non-smoking room.
Jun 27th, 2002, 10:12 PM
#70
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Dick-
I am not really seeing your points with those two situations. In the story I mentioned the guest was injured, not ill. If that situation were to happen to you I think you would be upset as well about the hotel's lack of compassion. We aren't talking about someone just deciding they wanted to stay at another hotel, he was unable to be there due to forces out of his control.
Also, if someone has an airline ticket and they die, as long as you have a valid death certificate nearly all fares(no matter if they are refundable or non-ref) will be refunded. In some instances if you are even severly injured/ill (it definitly has to be SEVERE) you may be able to get a refund or credit if you can provide the airline with the medical info. I do say MAY however. I know this as I am a travel agent and used to work for a nationwide company selling airline tickets all day long. The last comment you made also did not make sense to me. Obviously if you arrive at your hotel and they are oversold, they are not going to charge you for your room. The hotel I worked for located another hotel with available rooms, drove the guest there and my hotel paid for the room at the other hotel. The next day, the hotel guest was contacted by our GM and (if they decided they wanted to) were moved back to the original hotel and upgraded to a better room. If the guest was a business traveler and their company was paying for the room, the hotel offered the guest a voucher for one nights stay at any other location by the hotel chain.
I will also add one other scenario. Even if the hotel was full (enough that they had to walk guests) and we received no-shows or cancellations without any advance notice, they were still charged for not showing up.
I am not really seeing your points with those two situations. In the story I mentioned the guest was injured, not ill. If that situation were to happen to you I think you would be upset as well about the hotel's lack of compassion. We aren't talking about someone just deciding they wanted to stay at another hotel, he was unable to be there due to forces out of his control.
Also, if someone has an airline ticket and they die, as long as you have a valid death certificate nearly all fares(no matter if they are refundable or non-ref) will be refunded. In some instances if you are even severly injured/ill (it definitly has to be SEVERE) you may be able to get a refund or credit if you can provide the airline with the medical info. I do say MAY however. I know this as I am a travel agent and used to work for a nationwide company selling airline tickets all day long. The last comment you made also did not make sense to me. Obviously if you arrive at your hotel and they are oversold, they are not going to charge you for your room. The hotel I worked for located another hotel with available rooms, drove the guest there and my hotel paid for the room at the other hotel. The next day, the hotel guest was contacted by our GM and (if they decided they wanted to) were moved back to the original hotel and upgraded to a better room. If the guest was a business traveler and their company was paying for the room, the hotel offered the guest a voucher for one nights stay at any other location by the hotel chain.
I will also add one other scenario. Even if the hotel was full (enough that they had to walk guests) and we received no-shows or cancellations without any advance notice, they were still charged for not showing up.
Jun 27th, 2002, 11:06 PM
#71
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I am just curious if all the non smokers who are pissed about someone else who has paid and requested a smoking room in NYC will be walking down the street with surgical masks? Really!! The smog, the dust, the diesal, the pollution. They are ALL bad for your lungs as well. And will you be eating the daily requirement of fruits and veggies and sticking to low fat foods? That bad for you too.
Really!! I just moved to a high smog area of California a few years ago. Curious how all of a sudden I have sinus problems that I never had before. And I am FAR from the only one. I don't go up to the drivers of big honking trucks and ask them to shut off the engines. I don't like it and yes it affects my health but funny how it is never a huge issue. Just the smokers here as people are driving their big gas guzzlers and causing just as many health problems for others.
Really!! I just moved to a high smog area of California a few years ago. Curious how all of a sudden I have sinus problems that I never had before. And I am FAR from the only one. I don't go up to the drivers of big honking trucks and ask them to shut off the engines. I don't like it and yes it affects my health but funny how it is never a huge issue. Just the smokers here as people are driving their big gas guzzlers and causing just as many health problems for others.
Jun 28th, 2002, 08:30 AM
#72
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My preference is also non-smoking rooms, and I can't recall a recent situation where we've requested non-smoking and received otherwise. In addition, on our trip to the west two weeks ago, several Holiday Inn's and another lodge in Jackson made us sign acknowledging that the room was non-smoking and a fee would be imposed if we smoked in the room. In the Holiday Inn rooms, there was another warning with a placard on the desk that warned that a cleaning fee would be imposed if you smoked in the room. I think part of the problem may be smokers smoking in the non-smoking room, thus the hotels adopting policies charging for such. I don't have a problem signing my name to such a waiver--to me, it's a sign that hotels are taking the issue seriously.
Jun 28th, 2002, 09:24 AM
#73
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We have 485 rooms, of which only 40 are smoking rooms. Although you will almost always get your preference, none-the-less, that preference cannot be *guaranteed* and just one of the reasons is the problem Lynn mentioned, smokers smoking in non-smoking rooms. To return that room to non-smoking status means dry cleaning the drapes (two sets, inner and outer), bedspread, dust ruffle, and shampooing the carpet and upholstered furniture, then allowing it to air for whatever period it takes...in DNR if possible, but if the hotel is pre-booked and full, that isn't possible. Someone here has acknowledged making reservations for her smoker boss in non-smoking rooms because he doesn't like the odor of the smoking rooms either. The Holiday Inns and lodge Lynn mentions may be on to something that needs to be enforced industry wide.
Lenleigh has done a thorough and very accurate job of explaining the various reasons non smoking can only be a preference, not a guarantee, and believe me, laziness isn't one of them. In our own travels in the past 10 years we've only found ourselves in a smoking room once, and then because we arrived early and our non-smoking room wasn't yet ready. One whiff of the other convinced us to wait until it was. I'm curious, how often do others find their request not granted?
I don't know how widely this is used, but we do have a 1-800 number for booking specific room #'s. Still, if a smoker gets it the night before you check in and smokes despite the warnings in the room, your non-smoking room is no more!
Lenleigh has done a thorough and very accurate job of explaining the various reasons non smoking can only be a preference, not a guarantee, and believe me, laziness isn't one of them. In our own travels in the past 10 years we've only found ourselves in a smoking room once, and then because we arrived early and our non-smoking room wasn't yet ready. One whiff of the other convinced us to wait until it was. I'm curious, how often do others find their request not granted?
I don't know how widely this is used, but we do have a 1-800 number for booking specific room #'s. Still, if a smoker gets it the night before you check in and smokes despite the warnings in the room, your non-smoking room is no more!
Jun 28th, 2002, 09:54 AM
#74
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Lenleigh,
In the situation you mentioned, it would be up to the discretion of the hotel whether or not to make a goodwill exception or not. Legally, they are entitled to keep the deposit( as long as their policy has been clearly stated) if someone fails to show or cancelled in time for a guaranteed reservation.
I know that the hotel may fail to live up to their guarantee. But if that happens, I expect the choice to be mine whether to stay or go elsewhere.
If the hotel doesn't have the non-smoking room that was guaranteed on my reservation, then it's up to my discretion. I can accept another room or walk. If I walk, I can elect that no charges be made..since they didn't live up their part of the reservation( contract, really).
I can understand if someone is injured that they wold be upset. But what if it had been expensive theater tickets or super bowl tickets. They certainly wouldn't expect a refund if they couldn't make the performance or game...and didn't give give the tix to someone else.
If you want them to save a room for late arrival you have to expect a room charge if you don't show..even if due to serious injury.
In the situation you mentioned, it would be up to the discretion of the hotel whether or not to make a goodwill exception or not. Legally, they are entitled to keep the deposit( as long as their policy has been clearly stated) if someone fails to show or cancelled in time for a guaranteed reservation.
I know that the hotel may fail to live up to their guarantee. But if that happens, I expect the choice to be mine whether to stay or go elsewhere.
If the hotel doesn't have the non-smoking room that was guaranteed on my reservation, then it's up to my discretion. I can accept another room or walk. If I walk, I can elect that no charges be made..since they didn't live up their part of the reservation( contract, really).
I can understand if someone is injured that they wold be upset. But what if it had been expensive theater tickets or super bowl tickets. They certainly wouldn't expect a refund if they couldn't make the performance or game...and didn't give give the tix to someone else.
If you want them to save a room for late arrival you have to expect a room charge if you don't show..even if due to serious injury.
Jun 29th, 2002, 02:36 AM
#75
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Well I have yet to see a theater or Super Bowl ticket that was refundable at any time so it isn't really a good example. Also, it certainly is your decision to go to another hotel. However, if the hotel stated a non-smoking room was only a request due to availability then I still say they may charge you. If you make a big enough stink about it then you might get what you want provided that they care about you ever returning.
Jun 29th, 2002, 04:47 AM
#76
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Theatre or sports tickets is non refundable. Use it or lose it.
Hotel room, if guaranteed for late arrival, (and not used)are non refundable if not cancelled in the time frame allowed. Any deviation is at the hotel's discretion.
I can't think of of any major hotel chain that would seek to collect if you showed up for your room and they didn't have the room reserved. (THis applies when they accept the reservation for a guaranteed or confirmed non-smoking room....not just an "if available" request.
Again, I travel a fair amount and have NEVER encountered a problem.
As I mentioned before, if I'm going to be arriving late, I call the hotel earlier in the day to let them know that I will be there and to reconfirm a non-smoking room.
Hotel room, if guaranteed for late arrival, (and not used)are non refundable if not cancelled in the time frame allowed. Any deviation is at the hotel's discretion.
I can't think of of any major hotel chain that would seek to collect if you showed up for your room and they didn't have the room reserved. (THis applies when they accept the reservation for a guaranteed or confirmed non-smoking room....not just an "if available" request.
Again, I travel a fair amount and have NEVER encountered a problem.
As I mentioned before, if I'm going to be arriving late, I call the hotel earlier in the day to let them know that I will be there and to reconfirm a non-smoking room.
Jun 29th, 2002, 05:03 AM
#77
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"Message: Not to mention a habit that exposes nervousness, self-esteem and addiction problems. "
Who the hell do you think you are???
Just because you think that smoking smells bad and you THINK you are allergic to it, does not mean that you have the right to criticize those that do smoke.
YES I AM A SMOKER, but when it comes to a damn hotel room, I DON'T CARE!!!!
If they have flowers (real flowers) in the lobby, I don't bitch because I'm allergic to flowers (REAL ALLERGY SWEETHEART!)
If there is dust in the room, I don't bitch because it's there (ANOTHER REAL ALLERGY THERE!!!)
My Self-Esteem is just GD fine!!!!
I don't know where facist, self-righteous, militant non-smoking morons like yourself get off!!!!
Hey... here's a thought! When you CALL to reserve a room... Ask for a non-smoking room GUARANTEE!!! That if they cannot provide you with one upon check in, they have to make some sort of restitution. Discounted room..... Plug for your oh so sensitive nosey... and probably one for your mouth too.
if you can't get that... DON'T STAY THERE!!!!!
STOP TRYING TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE WHAT TO DO! PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SMOKING FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS. YOU CAN'T STOP IT! THE GOVERNMENT MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY FROM IT. GIVE UP THE GHOST!
Who the hell do you think you are???
Just because you think that smoking smells bad and you THINK you are allergic to it, does not mean that you have the right to criticize those that do smoke.
YES I AM A SMOKER, but when it comes to a damn hotel room, I DON'T CARE!!!!
If they have flowers (real flowers) in the lobby, I don't bitch because I'm allergic to flowers (REAL ALLERGY SWEETHEART!)
If there is dust in the room, I don't bitch because it's there (ANOTHER REAL ALLERGY THERE!!!)
My Self-Esteem is just GD fine!!!!
I don't know where facist, self-righteous, militant non-smoking morons like yourself get off!!!!
Hey... here's a thought! When you CALL to reserve a room... Ask for a non-smoking room GUARANTEE!!! That if they cannot provide you with one upon check in, they have to make some sort of restitution. Discounted room..... Plug for your oh so sensitive nosey... and probably one for your mouth too.
if you can't get that... DON'T STAY THERE!!!!!
STOP TRYING TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE WHAT TO DO! PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SMOKING FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS. YOU CAN'T STOP IT! THE GOVERNMENT MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY FROM IT. GIVE UP THE GHOST!
Jun 29th, 2002, 05:51 AM
#78
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That last post is an absolutely perfect demonstration of the childishness, blindness, selfishness, and ignorance of those smokers who would rather defend their habit with the stupidest possible arguments than take a step back and live an unaddicted life. Isn't it about 7 years old when a little boy stamps his foot and says "you're not the boss of ME!"?
And Monique, your logic is skewed, too, and it doesn't really have much to do with hotel reservations unless some of the rooms have smokestacks and car exhaust pipes sticking into them.
Mark's proposal that non-smoking rooms should be baseline and guaranteed if requested as a matter of hotel industry policy is a good one and won't hurt any of you smokers at all. To the contrary, it will help you unless you are the sort of craven idiot that smokes in a non-smoking room out of spite. Do you pee in people's pools, too, just because they told you not not?
And Monique, your logic is skewed, too, and it doesn't really have much to do with hotel reservations unless some of the rooms have smokestacks and car exhaust pipes sticking into them.
Mark's proposal that non-smoking rooms should be baseline and guaranteed if requested as a matter of hotel industry policy is a good one and won't hurt any of you smokers at all. To the contrary, it will help you unless you are the sort of craven idiot that smokes in a non-smoking room out of spite. Do you pee in people's pools, too, just because they told you not not?
Jun 29th, 2002, 05:58 AM
#79
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Stop someone as intelligent as you from smoking...no way. ?You should be able to die as early and as painfully as you like.
I think the government can make even more money. How about a $10 or even $20 federal tax per pack in addition to the local taxes. That will help pay for some of medical bills of medicare patients with lung cancer.
I think the government can make even more money. How about a $10 or even $20 federal tax per pack in addition to the local taxes. That will help pay for some of medical bills of medicare patients with lung cancer.
