fdecarlo

Ranger: How many blackjack dealers do you know personally? Just curious.

cguest88

Ranger's point is very simple. If the average person found out that cheating was going on by the dealers than the casino industry would be ruined b/c people would stop playing blackjack, craps, etc. Maybe back in the day when casinos were being run by the mob, dealers would cheat but now that they are run by huge congomlerations, the casinos are more concerned with stock price. What do think would happen to a casino's stock price if it was known that the casinos would allow thier dealers to cheat? (The casinos have large enough large enough win precentages that they don't need to cheat). Remember they don't build those big casinos on the winners.

So, sorry, I don't buy your "dealer-friend" scenario. Though, I would not disagree that the dealers might try to push the faces cards to the back on the first use of the cards but after that the dealer has no idea where the high cards will be and such a system would be ineffective after the first shuffle. Moreover, cold decking would be almost impossible b/c that would require the dealer to know what card is at the top shoe in a 6 deck shoe.

gmoney

fdecarlo, reputable Casino's do NOT cheat simply because they do not have to. The house has an advantage in every single game in a casino some as high as 20%. Plus if a casino was ever caught by the gaming commission they would be out of business and they would never allow that to happen. Maybe this happens at some of the hole in the wall casino's but not at the big strip casinos.

Cats_Do_Dance

The only time I've been in Vegas is when my family spend a night on the way to and from the GC-North Rim. I do believe my family is part of the reason Vegas decided to do away with attracting families; we only went when the kids were asleep (at different times) and stayed only a split second. I personally only spend $10.00 total for the two nights I went to the casino. Like nytraveler, my husband and I will only spend the amount of dollars it would cost for something like a movie and popcorn. I much preferred walking around and observing.

The saddest people I've ever seen at casinos are people at the local ones. Again, I usually spend my time walking around and observing and you can simply smell the sense of desperation that clings to some people. You know without a doubt they're spending the rent/utility/clothes money hoping to strike it rich.

Ryan

If dealers are cheating and the pit bosses are aware they are cheating, there is a name for that - it's called a criminal conspiracy. These "friends" of your's FDECarlo are effectively criminals who are rigging a game that is regulated by the State of Nevada.

If these dealers are cheating and those in the security area who monitor the tables aren't catching the cheating or are ignoring it outright, than I would say that the legal and financial risk to these companies and their Executives is substantial. At a minimum they'd risk losing their gaming license, multiple class-action lawsuits from both gamblers and investors, and potential criminal prosecution if they were made aware and didn't act. (Not to mention the nasty penalties that go along with the Sarbanes-Oxley law.)

Any reasonable person who goes into a casino understands that the house has a big edge. As stated by another person, the casinos aren't built by the winners. To suggest that large numbers of dealers would risk being hit with multiple felony counts - and an equally large number of pit bosses would risk the same - in today's Las Vegas seems unlikely. To suggest that Security Personnel, who have no vested interest in letting a dealer get away with cheating, would in mass numbers look the other way, seems equally unlikely.

I'm sure there are random dealers here and there who are lousy at what they do and feel the need to even the odds by trying to cheat. But, I've rarely seen losers throw a dealer a big tip.

So I ask, why would a dealer try to cheat someone when they stand to make FAR more money by getting tipped when someone wins?

fdecarlo

cguest et al: The logic here is simple. Blackjack dealers who lose too often get fired. This claim is not even controversial -- it's an established fact. Foregoing $5 tips is a very good idea when a $40K job is on the line.

And my other claims are easily verifiable as well. How many times have you as a player lost 8 or 10 hands in a row? Now, how many times have you seen a dealer lose the same number?

Try counting the number of hands where you pull a 5 on 16 or 6 on 15, then do the same for the dealer.

Try keeping track of the starting hands for both you and the dealer. Compare.

If dealers were playing straight these numbers would be roughly equal. But the numbers aren't roughly equal. Not even close.

The "it can't be true that they cheat" mentality is what keeps these theives in business. If you feel they're playing fair, you should continue to patronize them. I've seen enough cheating first-hand to know better.

gmoney

It is ludicrous to think that dealers have to cheat to keep their jobs. Fact is, if they are caught cheating they will be fired on the spot and arrested. If a dealer is cheating then they are doing it for personal gain most likely working with a player, and not for the casino. Blackjack dealers have to make no decisions they play by strict rules that cannot be altered. If you think for one minute that a casino would risk their gaming license for a few extra bucks made by cheating I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

k_999_9

Yes, I have known blackjack dealers (my cousin is one) so I must refute the contention about cheating:
-- Players lose more in a row than dealers because players must make the first decision. Thus, if the player busts and the dealer busts, the house wins. That's part of the house edge. So of course players are going to lose more often than dealers.
-- Would most dealers risk jail to keep a $40K-a-year job? Would you? I sure wouldn't. It would take just one disgruntled ex-dealer to complain to the gaming commission, and the whole scheme would collapse and the casino would get its license suspended.
-- Most dealers who cheat are doing so because they're trying to work a scam where they give friends at the table an advantage. They have to cheat to make up for what the friend is winning. The trick is as old as the hills, and casino bosses are well aware of it and watch for it with the "eye in the sky."

Sorry, fd, your story doesn't hold water.

GoTravel

Ryan, I agree with you on this post and what is the Sarbanes-Oxley Law?

Cats, how do you know which players are the locals?

LN

Here's the info you asked for GoT:

There are many federal and state whistleblower laws. Most, effectively, make it illegal for an employer to fire an employee for whistle blowing on the employer's illegal conduct. In general, to prove a violation of a whistleblower law, the employee must show that 1) her or she engaged in statutorily-protected conduct; 2) the employer took adverse action against him or her; and (3) there was a causal connection between the protected activity and the adverse action.

Under the laws of most states, whistleblowers are entitled to emotional distress and punitive damages. Now under federal law, specifically the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, any person who "interferes with" the employment or livelihood of an employee for providing any truthful information to legal authorities relating to the commission or possible commission of any federal offense, can be imprisoned for up to 10 years, and pay a fine up to $250,000.

Ryan

Go Travel,
Sarbanes-Oxley is a piece of legislation that requires specified senior officers of public companies to attest that their financial statements are accurate. Knowing that employees are manipulating cards to improve your results, would certainly merit a long-hard look from the SEC. (and I don't mean the football conference)

Ranger

To answer your question edecarlo, I have been going to Vegas 3 times a year for many years, and have come to know many blackjack dealers. I have never, in over 20 years, had one even hint, that he would loose his or her job if they lost to often. In fact most seemed very happy when they dumped their tray my way.
And yes, I have lost 8 hands in a row. I've also won 8 hands in a row.
If you understand the game, you understand, if you don't, then yes, it MUST be rigged!!.
Sounds to me, you lost big at the tables..I'd suggest sticking to Keno.

Cats_Do_Dance

GoTravel - I really can't explain how I know who are locals, but I do. Maybe it's because the casinos where I live really do pull in mostly local people. I'm not talking Vegas or Atlantic City here. Some of the people just seem so desperate; it's as if they saved enough cash simply to get to a place to feed their gambling habit or really, REALLY need money fast.

jbee

Cats-
Here's an interesting thought... Many people in the local casinos (speaking for Vegas only) are tourists. They think their odds are better off strip and that can be true.

Speaking of locals and gambling - I quit gambling when I moved to Vegas. It's very easy to get "sucked in" when it's all around you, but after working in a casino for a bit, I decided I couldn't throw my hard earned money down the drain.

Now, when my DH and I walk through a casino (or the airport) we associate the noise of slot machines to our state taxes being paid and that probably sounds very jaded. But after all, Vegas thrives on people who don't know how to set limits...