How much do you budget to lose while playing table games in Las Vegas?
Dec 26th, 2004, 01:52 PM
#1
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How much do you budget to lose while playing table games in Las Vegas?
Just returned from another long weekend in Las Vegas. The amount of money people are gambling at the tables was incredible. Many of the top casinos have $25.00 minimums at the Blackjack tables. I watched many people play $500 a hand or more. Many people were playing two or more hands at a time. Many were not using "Basic Strategy" and were losing big time.
When you go to Vegas (or Atlantic City), do set a maximum losing amount if the cards do not go your way? I saw lots of $$$ loses in Vegas, that was not you I saw- I hope!
When you go to Vegas (or Atlantic City), do set a maximum losing amount if the cards do not go your way? I saw lots of $$$ loses in Vegas, that was not you I saw- I hope!
Dec 26th, 2004, 03:17 PM
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I think a lot of people go by the rule that if you lose 3 hands in a row, you should leave the table. I tend to do that--you can kind of tell after those hands if the table is going to be hot or not. I also tend to be conservative, though......my limit to lose per day is $100. Once I've lost $100, I stop playing. (My mom's limit is twice that.) But I know there were times when I'd be depressed at the table, saying, "I lost $100 today!" And the guy next to me would say, "If that was all I lost today, I'd be happy!" I've seen some guys lose thousands of dollars in a day and still come back the next day to try again.
The first time I went to Vegas as a gambling adult, my mom took me to a nearby pawn shop to look around. She wanted me to see some of the wonderful things people pawned, the family heirlooms and wedding rings and other interesting items. It was pretty sad to see such things that people would give up to feed their habit, instead of setting a gambling limit and walking away when they reached it.
The first time I went to Vegas as a gambling adult, my mom took me to a nearby pawn shop to look around. She wanted me to see some of the wonderful things people pawned, the family heirlooms and wedding rings and other interesting items. It was pretty sad to see such things that people would give up to feed their habit, instead of setting a gambling limit and walking away when they reached it.
Dec 26th, 2004, 03:29 PM
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It's natural selection hard at work. Anyone who plays blackjack in a public casino these days and hopes to win is a complete moron.
I could write volumes about my friendships and experiences with casino employees over the last 25 years. The simple fact is, if a given blackjack dealer loses too often he or she is fired, and fired quickly. So learning how to cheat is part of "job security" for these people. Some of the cheating methods have to be seen to be believed, but I have seen them first-hand.
To answer your question, the vast majority of people you saw would have eventually lost their money anyway, even if they had used "basic strategy". One of the only ways to defend against a blackjack dealer, who can at will bury most face cards in the bottom of the deck, pull at will the second-to-top card etc etc is to learn how to count cards, and if a casino suspects you're counting they'll ask you to leave.
About the worst strategy one can use is the old double-down scheme, where one doubles their bet each time they lose. Unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to play with, it won't work.
I could write volumes about my friendships and experiences with casino employees over the last 25 years. The simple fact is, if a given blackjack dealer loses too often he or she is fired, and fired quickly. So learning how to cheat is part of "job security" for these people. Some of the cheating methods have to be seen to be believed, but I have seen them first-hand.
To answer your question, the vast majority of people you saw would have eventually lost their money anyway, even if they had used "basic strategy". One of the only ways to defend against a blackjack dealer, who can at will bury most face cards in the bottom of the deck, pull at will the second-to-top card etc etc is to learn how to count cards, and if a casino suspects you're counting they'll ask you to leave.
About the worst strategy one can use is the old double-down scheme, where one doubles their bet each time they lose. Unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to play with, it won't work.
Dec 27th, 2004, 07:48 AM
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I don't neccessarily think about it in terms of a budget, but more in terms of whether I'm enjoying myself. If I'm playing at the craps tables and at least getting some play for my money, I'm fine with losing a few hundred as long as it wasn't in the first 2 minutes; which has happended to me at times.
I have a few favorite places I like to play. If I've hit all of them over a few hour span and not had much luck, I'll take a break for a bit. With the way I bet and play, I might be down by $400 to $500 at that point. For me the money isn't the issue, but after awhile, the playing for the sake of playing stops being fun.
There are enough other things to do in Vegas besides gamble.
I have a few favorite places I like to play. If I've hit all of them over a few hour span and not had much luck, I'll take a break for a bit. With the way I bet and play, I might be down by $400 to $500 at that point. For me the money isn't the issue, but after awhile, the playing for the sake of playing stops being fun.
There are enough other things to do in Vegas besides gamble.
Dec 27th, 2004, 10:01 AM
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I'm amazed by the amount of money that people feel comfortable gambling and losing. Perhaps they're in different financial circumstances than I am - but I would much rather put $500 towards a couple of nights in a hotel in Italy - than into the pocket of some casino.
(I play strictly video poker and my limit is $20 per day - I figure that's about the same as a movie and a soda - similar entertainment value to a couple of hours of gambling.)
(I play strictly video poker and my limit is $20 per day - I figure that's about the same as a movie and a soda - similar entertainment value to a couple of hours of gambling.)
Dec 27th, 2004, 10:32 AM
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Of course a lot of rich people come from all over the world, and $500 a hand is not a lot for them. Then there's the problem is that a lot of people do not set a minimum, and get desperate and start betting their life's savings when they are losing.
I do have a success story though, someone visited my husbands associate several years ago and was playing blackjack at the LV Hilton. He was down $1500 and made an incredible comeback to win over 100k. He gambled for 21 hours straight. Now please notice I said this was several years ago..... that's how far and between these stories happen
But if you pay attention to the high limits rooms it is mostly asians doing the big, big, spending.
The high rollers do tip well too, I know a cocktail waitress that was tipped $3000 one night and $7000 on another occasion by one person. The dealers have to pool their tips so even if they get a big gratuity it is split between all the other dealers on their shift.
I do have a success story though, someone visited my husbands associate several years ago and was playing blackjack at the LV Hilton. He was down $1500 and made an incredible comeback to win over 100k. He gambled for 21 hours straight. Now please notice I said this was several years ago..... that's how far and between these stories happen
But if you pay attention to the high limits rooms it is mostly asians doing the big, big, spending.
The high rollers do tip well too, I know a cocktail waitress that was tipped $3000 one night and $7000 on another occasion by one person. The dealers have to pool their tips so even if they get a big gratuity it is split between all the other dealers on their shift.
Dec 27th, 2004, 10:46 AM
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No - I just don;t really get the gambling thing.
I can understand betting on horse racing - because then there's an intellectual exercise involved - can you balance out all the factors and figure out what's going to happen - but for me the success factor (I was right!) is way more exciting than the I did have $1 and now I have $10 factor. And after all, what am I going to do with the extra $9 - run away to Brazil?
Unless the amont of money you win will change your life (can you retire on it?) who really cares? Realistically - even if you win $5,000 - what does it matter in the overall scheme of things? You buy a little more stuff?
And for me the risk of losing - I work way too hard for my money to throw it away - is way too great! (The one time I was in Vegas - for a convention - I watched one of my juniors lose almost $1500 playing BlackJack - she didn;t have a clue how to even play. But I was ready to cry - here's a poor young girl struggling to get by on $65,000 a year - having trouble making the rent every month - and she lost half of her month's pay. And she just went back the next night and did it again. Competely beyond my comprehension.)
I can understand betting on horse racing - because then there's an intellectual exercise involved - can you balance out all the factors and figure out what's going to happen - but for me the success factor (I was right!) is way more exciting than the I did have $1 and now I have $10 factor. And after all, what am I going to do with the extra $9 - run away to Brazil?
Unless the amont of money you win will change your life (can you retire on it?) who really cares? Realistically - even if you win $5,000 - what does it matter in the overall scheme of things? You buy a little more stuff?
And for me the risk of losing - I work way too hard for my money to throw it away - is way too great! (The one time I was in Vegas - for a convention - I watched one of my juniors lose almost $1500 playing BlackJack - she didn;t have a clue how to even play. But I was ready to cry - here's a poor young girl struggling to get by on $65,000 a year - having trouble making the rent every month - and she lost half of her month's pay. And she just went back the next night and did it again. Competely beyond my comprehension.)
Dec 27th, 2004, 11:07 AM
#10
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nytraveler, knock wood but I've never lost gambling either in Las Vegas, Aruba, the Bahamas or Atlantic City.
Maybe it is because I know when to walk away?
I take $200 with me to gamble because when I go I'm usually going with a full comp person and that is what I figure I'd spend on hotel and airfare.
Maybe it is because I know when to walk away?
I take $200 with me to gamble because when I go I'm usually going with a full comp person and that is what I figure I'd spend on hotel and airfare.
Dec 27th, 2004, 12:58 PM
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I don't play table games because I don't want to spend $5 and up per hand. Nickel slots are fine with me and the sound of a payout from the machines is great even if it only totals $20.
Worst place I've gambled is at Harrah's Cherokee. Only machines, cramped, and machines set tight.
Worst place I've gambled is at Harrah's Cherokee. Only machines, cramped, and machines set tight.
Dec 27th, 2004, 01:38 PM
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I went to a ATM at one of the casinos. Next to the ATM was about 100 discarded slips and I read a number of them. Most said that the bank could not authorize the withdrawal because they had already gone over their maximum withdrawal for the day. I am sure they will rush over to the ATM at 12 midnight to get another $300 they can lose at the tables.
I also saw huge lines at the COMP window. People waited an hour to trade in their comps to get a free buffet!
I also saw huge lines at the COMP window. People waited an hour to trade in their comps to get a free buffet!
Dec 27th, 2004, 03:55 PM
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Oops.. meant to add this- I too have a gambling budget set aside when I go to Vegas, and when it's gone it's over.
To fdecarlo: Agree that cheating is much more common than most people would think, but when the dealers deal from a shoe(sleeve), doesn't that reduce the cheating angle? Also, knowing the Basic Strategy does go a long way toward reducing the Casino edge. I also enjoy Craps, but worry about loaded dice. Oh well, go for the fun of it and don't spend grocery money!
To fdecarlo: Agree that cheating is much more common than most people would think, but when the dealers deal from a shoe(sleeve), doesn't that reduce the cheating angle? Also, knowing the Basic Strategy does go a long way toward reducing the Casino edge. I also enjoy Craps, but worry about loaded dice. Oh well, go for the fun of it and don't spend grocery money!
Dec 27th, 2004, 04:11 PM
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With my husband we get only one card knowing we don't comp anything: sometimes they give you $5 in free pay, sometimes coupons, and usually put you on their mailing list - that's why I get a card.
We both know we'll lose a little, but a very small amount on nickel slots. Now they even have penny slots! If I want to lose money I go shopping.
We both know we'll lose a little, but a very small amount on nickel slots. Now they even have penny slots! If I want to lose money I go shopping.
Dec 27th, 2004, 04:43 PM
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Beatle: A shoe is of no help. In fact it's easier to pull the second card from a shoe than it is to do it by hand (less than 1/60th of an inch clearance between cards is required). And if you watch closely you'll notice the dealers lift the top card back toward the shoe before they remove it. This makes pulling the second card very easy.
But their major advantage is, if you take a new deck of cards (or two, four, six decks) and cut/shuffle them a specific way, most face cards will be buried toward the bottom of the pile. That's what gives dealers their major advantage. Ever notice how often dealers amazingly pull a six on 15, or a five on 16, etc? The player's defense against this is to cut the deck very thick -- almost to the bottom of the deck -- when you're given the chance to cut. But once you do this, you'll also notice the dealer will never choose you again to cut (if anyone else is playing at the table).
But their major advantage is, if you take a new deck of cards (or two, four, six decks) and cut/shuffle them a specific way, most face cards will be buried toward the bottom of the pile. That's what gives dealers their major advantage. Ever notice how often dealers amazingly pull a six on 15, or a five on 16, etc? The player's defense against this is to cut the deck very thick -- almost to the bottom of the deck -- when you're given the chance to cut. But once you do this, you'll also notice the dealer will never choose you again to cut (if anyone else is playing at the table).
Dec 27th, 2004, 07:42 PM
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Maybe in years past you had to worry about cheating dealers, or maybe today in out of the way, hole in the wall casinos, it may be a concern. But I wouldn't worry about it at any of the casinos on the strip or downtown in Vegas. Just aint gonna happen.
