Help with roadtrip LA-GC- PHX Dec. 2012
Nov 6th, 2012, 03:59 PM
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Help with roadtrip LA-GC- PHX Dec. 2012
Hello all!
Your posts on my Grand Canyon thread were so helpful, so I am back with a proposed full itinerary, revised as per your many helpful suggestions:
Dec 24: Depart LA early AM and drive to Joshua Tree National Park; picnic lunch and short hike, then Keys View; drive to ????? and stay the night
Dec. 25: Depart _________, see the Hoover Dam, drive to the Grand Canyon arriving roughly mid-afternoon (staying at Yavapai); Sunset Watching over the South Rim
Dec 26: Grand Canyon (weather permitting- morning hike via South Kaibab trail down to Cedar Ridge, climb back via Bright Angel trail, lunch, walk around...)
Dec 27: Depart Grand Canyon, drive to Sedona, stay the night there
Dec 28: Drive from Sedona to Pheonix
Dec 29: Phoenix (Shabbat)
Dec 30: Phoenix
Dec 31: Phoenix?
Jan 1: Flight home from PHX
*I know it looks like we'll be in Phoenix forever, but in fact, we won't be playing tourist at all on Friday or Saturday (at least until Sat. night) so it's really just Sunday and Monday.
Will Christmas Eve traffic be horrible leaving LA??
Where is a good place to stop Dec 24? Las Vegas?
Any particularly scenic roads to take? (And any roads to avoid?)
Do you have any hotel recommendations for Sedona and Pheonix? We are five people (ages 17-54) , if that helps, and we like cheap but clean and well-located. In Sedona, pretty much anything that fits those parameters will work, but the location of the hotel in Phoenix is much more important to us.
PHOENIX HOTEL: A mini-fridge in Phoenix is a necessity... If we could be located within the eruv, marked on this map http://www.phoenixbethjoseph.org/community.html in green two-thirds of the way down the page, that would be ideal!! Any suggestions you have would really be supremely helpful.
Thank you all so much in advance, and happy election day!
Your posts on my Grand Canyon thread were so helpful, so I am back with a proposed full itinerary, revised as per your many helpful suggestions:
Dec 24: Depart LA early AM and drive to Joshua Tree National Park; picnic lunch and short hike, then Keys View; drive to ????? and stay the night
Dec. 25: Depart _________, see the Hoover Dam, drive to the Grand Canyon arriving roughly mid-afternoon (staying at Yavapai); Sunset Watching over the South Rim
Dec 26: Grand Canyon (weather permitting- morning hike via South Kaibab trail down to Cedar Ridge, climb back via Bright Angel trail, lunch, walk around...)
Dec 27: Depart Grand Canyon, drive to Sedona, stay the night there
Dec 28: Drive from Sedona to Pheonix
Dec 29: Phoenix (Shabbat)
Dec 30: Phoenix
Dec 31: Phoenix?
Jan 1: Flight home from PHX
*I know it looks like we'll be in Phoenix forever, but in fact, we won't be playing tourist at all on Friday or Saturday (at least until Sat. night) so it's really just Sunday and Monday.
Will Christmas Eve traffic be horrible leaving LA??
Where is a good place to stop Dec 24? Las Vegas?
Any particularly scenic roads to take? (And any roads to avoid?)
Do you have any hotel recommendations for Sedona and Pheonix? We are five people (ages 17-54) , if that helps, and we like cheap but clean and well-located. In Sedona, pretty much anything that fits those parameters will work, but the location of the hotel in Phoenix is much more important to us.
PHOENIX HOTEL: A mini-fridge in Phoenix is a necessity... If we could be located within the eruv, marked on this map http://www.phoenixbethjoseph.org/community.html in green two-thirds of the way down the page, that would be ideal!! Any suggestions you have would really be supremely helpful.
Thank you all so much in advance, and happy election day!
Nov 7th, 2012, 02:58 AM
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In GC, your hike down Kaibab and up Bright Angel seems very ambitious unless you are in fantastic shape and used to hiking long distances with large elevation changes. An alternative would be to go down Kaibab for a couple of hours then back up and then taking the rim trail to Bright Angel and see if you want to hike down a bit or continue out to Hermit's Rest and stopping to enjoy the views along the way.
I would check to see if Hoover Dam will be open for tours on Christmas Day, but there are hotels near there that would probably be more convenient/available than Vegas.
Stay flexible, the weather has always been great when we've gone to the area at that time of year, but you could get winter storms at that time of year too, so keep a plan B with a list of lodging choices if things turn snowy mid trip.
Have a wonderful trip.
I would check to see if Hoover Dam will be open for tours on Christmas Day, but there are hotels near there that would probably be more convenient/available than Vegas.
Stay flexible, the weather has always been great when we've gone to the area at that time of year, but you could get winter storms at that time of year too, so keep a plan B with a list of lodging choices if things turn snowy mid trip.
Have a wonderful trip.
Nov 7th, 2012, 05:56 AM
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You could drive through Mojave National Preserve after Joshua Tree, and then continue on to Vegas. Or anywhere in the Vegas metro area - since you want to see Hoover Dam the Vegas area is really the most reasonable option for overnight.
Sunset is around 4:40pm in California, so I would think you'd have plenty of evening hours to do something in Vegas if that's where you decide to spend the night.
Hoover Dam visitor center is not open on Christmas, so a guided tour is not an option. You can still drive over it of course, and stop/park on either side then walk back to take pictures.
You're a bit confused about the Grand Canyon trails - if you hike down S. Kaibab to Cedar Ridge, the only option to hike back up is S. Kaibab. Bright Angel trail is about 5 miles away.
Sunset is around 4:40pm in California, so I would think you'd have plenty of evening hours to do something in Vegas if that's where you decide to spend the night.
Hoover Dam visitor center is not open on Christmas, so a guided tour is not an option. You can still drive over it of course, and stop/park on either side then walk back to take pictures.
You're a bit confused about the Grand Canyon trails - if you hike down S. Kaibab to Cedar Ridge, the only option to hike back up is S. Kaibab. Bright Angel trail is about 5 miles away.
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:17 AM
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> Grand Canyon (weather permitting- morning hike via South Kaibab
> trail down to Cedar Ridge, climb back via Bright Angel trail, lunch
Let's read a few words from the people who have to send a rescue down to people who over-estimate their abilities in desert canyon hiking:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/hiking-faq.htm
Q: Can I go to the bottom and back in one day?
A: The National Park Service DOES NOT RECOMMEND hiking from the rim to the river and back in one day.
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/day-hiking.htm
"DO NOT attempt to hike from the rim to the river and back in one day"
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/hike-tips.htm
"Everyone who hikes in the canyon for the first time reports that it was more difficult than they expected. Be conservative in planning your hike!"
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...recreation.htm
"If you have doubts as to your ability to hike safely in the Grand Canyon, do not attempt to do so! All visitors should be aware that efforts to assist them may be delayed and limited due to weather, rescuer safety, and incident urgency."
CAN someone who has done the proper planning and preparation hike down the South Kaibab and back up the Bright Angel, all in one day?
Yes, it is POSSIBLE.
SHOULD someone attempt this hike, particularly if they are not used to canyon hiking?
Absolutely NOT.
Amongst the many problems I see with this idea is that, once you are at the bottom of the South Kaibab Trail, there is NO WAY OUT but up. You can't decide you're too tired or unprepared or hurting, and then change your mind. You must walk out or pay for a medical evacuation. The latter is the ONLY reason someone will assist you out of The Canyon. Didn't plan well? - that's YOUR problem.
If you properly plan a hike in The Canyon, in keeping with your abilities and the challenges, it'll be one the best experiences of your life. If you don't, it'll be one of the worst. The choice is entirely YOURS.
> trail down to Cedar Ridge, climb back via Bright Angel trail, lunch
Let's read a few words from the people who have to send a rescue down to people who over-estimate their abilities in desert canyon hiking:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/hiking-faq.htm
Q: Can I go to the bottom and back in one day?
A: The National Park Service DOES NOT RECOMMEND hiking from the rim to the river and back in one day.
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/day-hiking.htm
"DO NOT attempt to hike from the rim to the river and back in one day"
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/hike-tips.htm
"Everyone who hikes in the canyon for the first time reports that it was more difficult than they expected. Be conservative in planning your hike!"
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...recreation.htm
"If you have doubts as to your ability to hike safely in the Grand Canyon, do not attempt to do so! All visitors should be aware that efforts to assist them may be delayed and limited due to weather, rescuer safety, and incident urgency."
CAN someone who has done the proper planning and preparation hike down the South Kaibab and back up the Bright Angel, all in one day?
Yes, it is POSSIBLE.
SHOULD someone attempt this hike, particularly if they are not used to canyon hiking?
Absolutely NOT.
Amongst the many problems I see with this idea is that, once you are at the bottom of the South Kaibab Trail, there is NO WAY OUT but up. You can't decide you're too tired or unprepared or hurting, and then change your mind. You must walk out or pay for a medical evacuation. The latter is the ONLY reason someone will assist you out of The Canyon. Didn't plan well? - that's YOUR problem.
If you properly plan a hike in The Canyon, in keeping with your abilities and the challenges, it'll be one the best experiences of your life. If you don't, it'll be one of the worst. The choice is entirely YOURS.
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:34 AM
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Calm down Paul. She obviously misspoke, as she only mentions a morning hike to Cedar Ridge which is nowhere near the bottom. My post already clarified that she can't take Bright Angel back up from that point. She does not mention rim to river and back in either this thread or her previous thread asking for suggestions.
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:53 AM
#10
My thought on Christmas eve: The earlier the start out of LA the better. Go see Joshua Tree if you wish. When you leave JTNP head north and east from 29 Palms through Amboy (aka Radiator Springs). Jog east a couple miles on the National Trails Highway (old US 66) to the road that goes north to I-40 exit 78.
Continue under I-40 through the Mojave National Preserve. Bwear right in Kelso. Bear left in Cima and hit I-15 at Exit 272. After a long day, you can stop at Buffalo Bill's in Primm NV Exit 1). If what you want to see is Joshua trees, there are plenty of them in the the Mojave National Preserve.
In some ways I like the Mojave National Preserve better than Joshua Tree NP.
Continue under I-40 through the Mojave National Preserve. Bwear right in Kelso. Bear left in Cima and hit I-15 at Exit 272. After a long day, you can stop at Buffalo Bill's in Primm NV Exit 1). If what you want to see is Joshua trees, there are plenty of them in the the Mojave National Preserve.
In some ways I like the Mojave National Preserve better than Joshua Tree NP.
Nov 7th, 2012, 05:46 PM
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MichelleY,
Sedona doesn't have Jewish life nearly as active as Phoenix does, so it's really not on option for Shabbat. As it is, it's a full day in Sedona and two full days in Phoenix, which doesn't sound that unreasonable to me....
Tomsd,
Thanks very much for the rec of the Frank Lloyd Wright museum..... we will definitely add that to the list!
Emalloy and PaulRabe,
I obviously misread the Grand Canyon posts, as it sounded to me like what I was suggesting was only 1.5 miles down and ~2 miles up. Admittedly not a breeze, but 4 miles is not a long hike at all. We guessed that that would be about our skill/fitness level, but we will of course be open to changing it, both as far as our plan before goes, and once we are actually there. I will go and reread those posts now and try to find how the misunderstanding occurred.
Oh and Emalloy and WhereAreWe,
Thanks for the alternate route suggestion....
WhereAreWe,
Thanks very much for patiently helping to clarify the situation, and for taking the time to recall my previous post. As I said above, I'm going to go back to the original post and to my internet research now and try to see how I went wrong in my note-taking...
I totally wasn't thinking about stuff being closed on Christmas (I was just thinking Monday, Tuesday, etc...)- thanks for catching that the Hoover Dam will be closed.
Hoover Dam is a ~4hour drive from JTNP, so we won't make it to the Dam by closing time on Christmas Eve. I need to confer with my brother, whose dream it was to see the Hoover Dam and see what he'd like to do....
TomFuller and WhereAreWe,
Thanks so much for the suggestion of Mojave. It wasn't really on my radar but it looks gorgeous. Would you cut JTNP in favor of Mojave?
Sedona doesn't have Jewish life nearly as active as Phoenix does, so it's really not on option for Shabbat. As it is, it's a full day in Sedona and two full days in Phoenix, which doesn't sound that unreasonable to me....
Tomsd,
Thanks very much for the rec of the Frank Lloyd Wright museum..... we will definitely add that to the list!
Emalloy and PaulRabe,
I obviously misread the Grand Canyon posts, as it sounded to me like what I was suggesting was only 1.5 miles down and ~2 miles up. Admittedly not a breeze, but 4 miles is not a long hike at all. We guessed that that would be about our skill/fitness level, but we will of course be open to changing it, both as far as our plan before goes, and once we are actually there. I will go and reread those posts now and try to find how the misunderstanding occurred.
Oh and Emalloy and WhereAreWe,
Thanks for the alternate route suggestion....
WhereAreWe,
Thanks very much for patiently helping to clarify the situation, and for taking the time to recall my previous post. As I said above, I'm going to go back to the original post and to my internet research now and try to see how I went wrong in my note-taking...
I totally wasn't thinking about stuff being closed on Christmas (I was just thinking Monday, Tuesday, etc...)- thanks for catching that the Hoover Dam will be closed.
Hoover Dam is a ~4hour drive from JTNP, so we won't make it to the Dam by closing time on Christmas Eve. I need to confer with my brother, whose dream it was to see the Hoover Dam and see what he'd like to do....
TomFuller and WhereAreWe,
Thanks so much for the suggestion of Mojave. It wasn't really on my radar but it looks gorgeous. Would you cut JTNP in favor of Mojave?
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:00 PM
#12
If your brother's dream is to see Hoover Dam, then try to see it. It is truly a wonder and the tour is fascinating. If I had to choose, I would skip Joshua for Hoover Dam. You will probably see Joshua trees in the desert between LA & LV.
If you have time, heading east out of the GC, you will get views into the Painted Desert. Stop at the Cameron Trading Post. You can also loop thru the Wupatki ruins and Sunset crater on the way to Sedona. But then again, you may want to head straight to Sedona to maximize your time there. So beautiful.
Off the freeway between Sedona and Phoenix is Montezuma's Castle, a cliff dwelling and worth the stop.
If you have time, heading east out of the GC, you will get views into the Painted Desert. Stop at the Cameron Trading Post. You can also loop thru the Wupatki ruins and Sunset crater on the way to Sedona. But then again, you may want to head straight to Sedona to maximize your time there. So beautiful.
Off the freeway between Sedona and Phoenix is Montezuma's Castle, a cliff dwelling and worth the stop.
Nov 27th, 2012, 06:13 AM
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We were in JTNP last year just before Christmas and we loved it!! I wouldnt skip it (although Ive never been to Hoover Dam.)
We stayed in Palm Springs and drove to JT for the day. The trees themselves werent the highlight - it was the rock formations and the ability to climb up and around then at your will....my boys really loved that!!!
We are looking at AZ and GC for this winter break and Im trying to figure that out too!!! Good luck!
We stayed in Palm Springs and drove to JT for the day. The trees themselves werent the highlight - it was the rock formations and the ability to climb up and around then at your will....my boys really loved that!!!
We are looking at AZ and GC for this winter break and Im trying to figure that out too!!! Good luck!
Nov 27th, 2012, 06:40 AM
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I really like visiting the Desert Botanical Garden east of Phoenix. A good excuse to get out in the sun and walk around some very impressive plantings. It would be lovely if the luminarious were out, as in the photot.
http://www.dbg.org/
http://www.dbg.org/
Nov 27th, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Not a big fan of JTNM, or the desert - and you will be driving through plenty of that type of landscape anyway.
Also - close to Bright Angel - you can hike down beneath the rim for as far as you want to go - and then come on back up.
Also - close to Bright Angel - you can hike down beneath the rim for as far as you want to go - and then come on back up.
Nov 29th, 2012, 06:36 PM
#16
Joshua Tree has its own merits but I like the Mojave National Preserve more. The Kelso sand dunes are amazing.
http://www.nps.gov/moja/index.htm
From Barstow, take I-40 at the split and go to Exit 78 and then north on the route in my first post. This will save you over 100 miles through the Mojave desert which has an abundance of Joshua trees.
One of the best Christmas dinners I ever had was at the Hofbrau House in Las Vegas.
http://www.nps.gov/moja/index.htm
From Barstow, take I-40 at the split and go to Exit 78 and then north on the route in my first post. This will save you over 100 miles through the Mojave desert which has an abundance of Joshua trees.
One of the best Christmas dinners I ever had was at the Hofbrau House in Las Vegas.
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