help with planning - SF to LV
 

we plan to come from UK in October. This site helped greatly last year with our travel plans, so here goes again. Plan 4/5 nights in San Fran, pick up hire car on way out to Yosemite (stay 1/2 nights outside), onto Bishop (1 night), onto Death Valley (1 night), onto Las Vegas (2 nights)- return hire car and fly home. What info can you give me on this?<BR>For example, recommended hotels for first 4 destinations, any useful websites, is there services for food, gas etc on route to all these places? As it's October what weather can we expect at SF and Yosemite, will it be rainy, cool? Greatly appreciated.

October weather in SF and Yosemite can range from cool to very warm. We have late Indian summers. <BR><BR>October is the month that rain starts. Unfortunately unless you catch rain the waterfalls in Yosemite will be dry or very slight. <BR><BR>Hwy 120 through Yosemite to Hwy 395 will be open. There is always a rare change that you will hit snow. Hwy 395 is a scenic drive and plenty of places to get gas. Infact the only place you will have to worry about gas is in Yosemite Valley. The removed the gas station.<BR><BR>Utahtea

4 or 5 nights in SF seems like a lot to me. From my past experience 2 nights is plenty of time to see everything in SF. On the wa to Yosemite you should also consider staying a night or 2 in Monterey or Carmel and San Jose which are both on the way. <BR><BR>www.monterey.com<BR>www.sanjose.org

I agree, 3 nights in San Fran should be enough, definitely not 5. I'd add a night on In Las Vegas instead, especially since your first day there you'll be tired from your trip. <BR><BR>In San Fran we love the Best Western Tuscan Inn, Columbus Motor Inn is another decent choice.

cheers, some good Info there - we are reconsidering time spent in SF. why we chose 5 nights was because it's such a long way for us from UK first night doesn't really count, secondly we thought we could do day trips to Carmel and Napa etc without actually packing up and moving on. What do you think?

You would be much better off staying overnight in Napa, Carmel, and San Jose rather than doing day trips from SF. Driving times from SF to: Napa (1.5 hrs.north of SF). San Jose (1.5-2hrs. south of SF), and Carmel 3-3.5 hrs. south of SF) Accomodations in Carmel tend to be expensive. You may want to look into staying in either Monterey or Pacific Grove instead. Also, you could easily take daytrips from San Jose to Monterey and Carmel. If you are in the San Jose area, definitely visit the Big Basin Redwoods State Park (www.bigbasin.org). Also, in the nearby town of Felton, you can take a steam train tour of the redwoods at Roaring Camp Railroad (www.roaringcamp.com)<BR><BR>Have a nice trip

San Jose is NOT two hours from San Francisco! It's a bit over an hour with heavy traffic.<BR><BR>I would suggest skipping Carmel (as suggested) - that's quite a drive and not a day trip from San Francisco.<BR><BR>Your original itinerary looks great. I've never done Bishop or Death Valley - but you will enjoy San Francisco, Yosemite, and Vegas.<BR><BR>October weather in San Francisco should be good. I've found that September is the best with October nights getting slightly chilly. Coming from the UK, I'm sure you'll find it quite pleasant. Roadside services should be easy to find along your route and clearly marked near freeway exits.<BR><BR>Sounds like quite the trip! Enjoy!

Bill,<BR><BR>Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, but I drive between SF and San Jose at least once per week and it usually takes about 2 hours during the commute time, sometimes a tad bit more. Without heavy traffic it will be about 1.5 hrs.<BR><BR>Lynn,<BR>I am not sure where the suggestion to skip Carmel was made as Bill pointed out, but I would keep Carmel on the must see list, but not as a day trip from SF but rather an overnight stay.

Lynn: Your original itinerary was fine, actually. California is so vast and offers so much - it would never be possible to see/do it all. Everyone's suggestions are good (except that 1 hour to San Jose bit is daft - simply not possible except at midnight). <BR><BR>I agree - Carmel is not a good day trip from SF. Napa is more doable - but I would recommend the Sonoma area instead. A little easier drive and just as many wineries, etc.<BR><BR>If you wanted to cut one day out of SF (You are correct about the first day/night in SF - it wll be a killer) you could head down Hwy 1 through Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz and Monterey and spend the night somewhere on the Monterey Peninsula -- Carmel is fine but Pacific Grove, Carmel Valley and Monterey are also good.<BR><BR>Then carry on with your itinerary to Yosemite as originally planned.<BR><BR>(I am a native Californian and lived in the UK for 5 years. The differences in distances and driving is amazing - you shouln't try to over do)

If you decide to go to Carmel and Monterey, I would not take Highway 1 all the way down from SF. That will take at least 4 hours. The coast north of Monterey is not nearly as scenic as the stretch from Monterey Bay south to Big Sur. From SF you would be better off taking the scenic 280 freeway south toward San Jose then 17 south toward Santa Cruz and 1 south to Monterey. It is a quicker route and the scenery through the Santa Cruz Mountains on Highway 17 is very nice.

Tom gives a good alternative - but I would actually still recommend Hwy 1. The San Mateo and Santa Cruz county coasts are very nice and the traffic over 17 can be horrendous depending on on the day/time you travel it. Probably 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other.

Traffic over Highway 17 is only a concern during the commute hours of 3-7PM on weekdays. Assuming that you will be driving Highway 17 at a time other than that, you should have no problem. Highway 1 from SF to Monterey along the San Mateo coast can be slow if it is foggy, which is likely in October. Also, Highway 1 along the San Mateo coast will take you through the Devil's Slide area. I think that the name speaks for itself. Even experienced drivers along this stretch of road get white knuckles from gripping the steering wheel.

Take Hwy 1. October is the least foggy time along the coast and is often the warmest. It takes nowhere near 4 hours to get to Monterey on 1. It's super-scenic and as a bonus you get to bypass the smoggy sprawl of the San Jose area. Have fun!

In my expereince I have encountered fog in October when there are storms coming in off the coast. The wind can also present a problem as well. I really don't see how smog has anything to do with affecting one's driving. Smog is really nonexistent in the San Jose area in October because of the cooler weather at that time of year. 4 hours is optimistic when taking route 1 all the way from SF to Monterey.

There is rarely fog when a storm is approaching or moving onshore, Steve. In addition, there are rarely storms in October.

Paul,<BR><BR>Really, then all those clouds I see coming on shore in October I am just imagining I guess. I have driven route along the San Mateo coastline numerous times, and in the fall season in October it can be a dangerous and slow drive. Being that Lynn is from the UK and probably not used to driving in the US, I would not recommend this portion of route 1. This stretch of road is even dangerous for those of us who are familaier with it.

What are you all talking about - Fog and storms in October?? Sure there COULD be bad weather (and if it did turn bad Lynn could always change routes at the last minute) but October is one of the warmest least foggy times on the No. Calif coast. Don't scare them with tales of nasty weather - Highly unlikely.<BR><BR>You MUST admit hwy 1 would be a more scenic drive than through silicon valley. And British drivers are MUCH more used to winding, narrow roads than most Americans. They drive them every day. I have a LOT of experience driving in both countries and folks from the UK have a much easier time driving in the US than most Americans have driving in the UK.

Janis or is it Paul?<BR><BR>I think you have stated your opinion. I am not trying to scare anyone, but merely trying to state the facts about Route 1 along the San Mateo Coastline. The nices part of route 1 is without a doubt in the Monterey Bay Area anyway. Also, 280 is a very picteresque road as is Highway 17 through the Santa Cruz mountains.

No Steve - I never post under a pseudoname. You probably can't imagine there are actually two people who disagree with you.

Janis,<BR><BR>Gee, in reading the posts by you and Paul, they seem to be so similar, right down to the avoiding the Silicon Valley, as if it is some sort of black hole. Many people, tourists and locals alike drive through San Jose and Silcon Valley every day, and people even stop there to tour around as well, and nothing bad has happened to them. I just do not understand your obsession with suggesting that Lynn take a longer more dangerous road.

Steve -- drop your obsession with getting these poor people into San Jose! They haven't even said they are going south anyway. Janice and Paul are not the only ones who think driving through Silicon Valley is a nightmare. Let me see, I am on vacation, I have a choice of driving along a gorgeous scenic highway along the coast, or I could drive through nasty, busy San Jose, Let me think here(?). It is a no brainer if you ask me. I was going to use my real screen name but won't because you seem to have some sort of vendetta against anyone who dares to disagree with you.

Janis, Paul,xx:<BR><BR>I think that you are the one who is obsessed. You are the one that has this hang up about San Jose. What terrible childhood memory do you have of the city? I am sorry that you find San Jose to be such a bad place, however many of us do find it to be a rather nice place.<BR><BR>Lynn has already mentioned that she would like to take a sidetrip south of SF, and am trying to give her the most sensible and scenic route. The 280 freeway is very scenic, as is highway 17 in the Santa Cruz Mountains. <BR><BR>Gee, if we really want Lynn to avoid traffic all together, then why don't you suggest that she not go to San Francisco either? <BR><BR>Lynn,<BR><BR>I do apologize for Janis' obsession with having you take highway 1 down the San Mateo coast. <BR>

Lynn craig: Sorry about all the trouble the thread has come to. You got some good suggestions before it deteriorated. I don't care one way or the other where you go but I do think you ought to know one little detail. Steve is the Fodors board resident San Jose advocate. He seems to steer any number of threads to San Jose even when they don't have anything to do with that city. He has been doing this for ages. I personally do not know which route is best, but I would be reluctant to take any advice from our friend Steve. I read one thread where the person was looking for hotels near Oakland airport and Steve came through with a long response trying to steer them to San Jose instead. I honestly think he must work for the Chamber of commerce.

If I had to choose driving Hwy 1 along the coast or Hwy 17 through the Santa Cruz mountains, I'd take Hwy 1 every time. The ocean views are fantastic! The Santa Cruz mountains are nice but you will see the real mountains when you go to Yosemite.<BR><BR><BR>Utahtea<BR><BR>

Lynn,<BR><BR>I live along the highway 1 on the San Mateo coastline, and I really would not suggest it taking that road all the way from SF. The vistas are not as nice as the views around the Monterey portion of highway 1. As such, the previous advice about taking 280 to 17 through the Santa Cruz Mountains is the best alternative. The hills and mountains along 280 and 17 offer some great scenery. <BR><BR>If you stop in San Jose, the Tech Museum is great, and so is the interesting Winchester Mystery House. If you have time, do take a sidetrip to enjoy either Big Basin or take the steam train at Roaring Camp in Felton. The redwoods are truly amazing.

thak heavans,<BR><BR>I honestly do not think that Steve works for the San Jose chamber of commerce. He actually gave Lynn some good advice a good route to get to Monterey. We always prefer taking the 280 to 17 route over the Santa Cruz Mountains also. San Jose would be a nice sidetrip for Lynn to give her a nice overview of northern California.

Huh- this family is traveling from England to see the best of northern California. Places like Yosemite, San Francisco, Carmel, AND YOU PEOPLE WANT TO SEND THEM TO BEAUTIFUL(?) SAN JOSE! This is a vacation, not a work trip. San Jose is not a terrible place, but they have limited time and are coming 6,000 miles. Do you really think San Jose is anyplace to send them? NO! That is like telling people to go to Fremont for Cripes Sakes.

Tom,<BR><BR>Huh?? San Jose is a nice city and has lots to offer in terms of museums, galleries, theaters, restaurants, the many nightclubs along South First Street and its proximity to the redwoods of Big Basin and the Central Coast along Monterey Bay. The weather in San Jose during the spring, summer, and fall make it nice for al fresco dining at a downtown restaurant. One thing that I have been meaning to check out is the new Improv Comedy Club downtown.<BR><BR>

I have read and taken on board all your comments (with a few chuckles along the way. But thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply, as I first mentioned the boards are invaluable for finding good information before booking and maybe avoiding costly mistakes. I will be posting more queries and hope I get a great response such as this. Cheers Lynn.

Hi, We are also planning a trip to California this year (July) so all the info. is a great help and it's amusing to read. I think the comment about UK driver'I correct I find driving on 6 lane freeways much more taxing than single roads. I am afraid I have to agree with coming off Hwy 1 but only to see the Redwood's it's on my to do list and this seems like a good option we are driving from LA tp SF stopping 1 or 2 nights on the way.<BR>A big thanks to all of you that seek to help lynne and the rest of us. I try to return the favour in the UK section. Pauline

message Pauline<BR>This is my 3rd try hope it gets on? We may cross paths by the looks of it, R u from UK too? SF first, Yosemite 2 nights, the 1 night eack Mammoth L. Lone Pine and D Valley. Followed bt Vegas (3 Nights) onto Chicago and fly home to Manchester UK. What about You?

Northern Cal is one of our favorite vacation area, so I'll offer my opinions. Assuming it's your first visit to the area? As much of SF's beauty is in the outdoors, just bring your rain gear so you can enjoy no matter if chilly, rainy, or sunny. Fog is part of the SF atmosphere, so I think most tourists hope to see some.<BR><BR>How fast you want to move depends on your interests and your personal vacationing style. We tend to want to see as much as possible, spend little time in the hotel or relaxing, and little time doing/seeing what we can at home. So, from my point of view, I would agree that your first day is going to be slow. Depending on where you stay you could just wander through the Victorian neighborhoods or up and down the hills, something to soak up SF atmosphere and get over jet lag. Then a day of true sightseeing of the wharf, bridge, Chinatown, bay, etc. After 2 nights in SF, you could day trip or overnight to Sonoma or Muir Woods north. <BR><BR>Then you could drive south. There has already been considerable debate over the routes :-) We've driven past Devil's Slide and it did scare our friends. I think it is not as scenic as the Big Sur drive, but if one is not going to Big Sur, it gives a dramatic coastal drive. If you do not go to Muir Woods, then go to Big Basin State Park, my favorite place in the Bay area to experience the trees. You can take a half to full day working your way down toward Monterey and spend the night anywhere from Santa Cruz to Monterey. If you like aquariums, Monterey is tops. You've already seen the wharf in SF. If you didn't drive along Hwy 1 in SF, then the drive down to Big Sur is great. One or two nights in this area.<BR><BR>Now you're ready to head east across the valley to Yosemite. Although the waterfalls will not be very dramatic in October, the mountains will stll be beautiful. I prefer staying in the park to be right at the base of the mountains at sunset and on the trails early in the morning. I sacrifice modern comforts and convenience to be in the natural setting (just my preference). If you are not hikers, then a full day in the valley is sufficient. You may also want to see the trees in the south end of the park. If hiking or climbing, cut time in the city and Monterey and add on here.<BR><BR>I haven't been to Death Valley. I have driven through Yosemite to Mono Lake, then down through Nevada to Las Vegas (a lonely road with tremendous dips).<BR><BR>Unless you are big gamblers or want to hit all the shows, 2 nights in Vegas are enough. I enjoy going there for the spectacle of the lights and the casinos at night. The Downtown Light Show is amazing. But after one night on the strip, one downtown, and a show, I am ready to leave. I find the city depressing during the day.<BR><BR>Have fun--you've chosen some great destinations.<BR><BR>

Sounds like I might cross you guys from UK too! We'll also be there begining of October.<BR><BR>We plan 2 nights in SF, then drive to Big Sur (night in Monterey or such). Then east to Yosemite (2 nights). Cross the Park and drive down to Bishop and spend the night there. Drive to Death Valley (visiting the northern part of it on the way). Spend the night in Furnace Creek. The next day drive to Las vegas, visiting the sourthern part of Death Valley. Spend one night in Vegas, and drive to Flagstaff. Go to the Grand Canyon the next day, spend the night there. Drive down to Phoenix and back to Belgium the day after!<BR><BR>What do you all think of this?

Lynn, I don't see anything wrong with your original agenda. I think a trip up to Napa can be made in a day trip from San Franciscoro, but personally if I was going to the Carmel/Monterey area, I would take my fifth night in SF and spend it in Carmel and travel to Yosemite from there.

I would stay 2 nights at Mammoth, and bypass Lone Pine and go on to Death Valley. Been vacationing in Mammoth for 25 years. <BR><BR>Other than going west about 15 miles to the trailhead at Mt. Whitney, there's nothing in Lone Pine. Mammoth to Bishop - 45 minutes. Bishop to Lone Pine - 45 minutes. <BR><BR>Before entering Mammoth, stop at the Visitor's Center where you can get plenty of information of many things to see and do. <BR><BR>There's another visitor information center in Lone Pine for Mt. Whitney - Death Valley turnoff.

M367 : coming from Yosemite Village, would you rather stay in Mammoth Lakes than in Bishop? My plan is to drive to Bishop in order to reduce the driving time to Death Valley the day after!

If you want to cut short the time, then you can go direct to Bishop. Mammoth to Bishop is a downhill drive, nice scenery. It's a town full of motels and fast food restaurants. From Bishop to Lone Pine is probably an hour of driving, divided highway. Lone Pine to Death Valley is a 2 lane road.<BR>If you have time, and would like to visit Mammoth Lakes and the weather is good, it is about 7 minutes from highway 395 with hotels (even a Motel 6), and restaurants. The drive to Lake Mary is about 15 minutes up the road -- or the drive to the ski resort is about 20 minutes...however, then you must go to the Mineret Vista. I don't know if the shuttle bus is running in October down to Devils Postpile, but that is a beautiful area also. Wouldn't recommend driving it - scary. <BR>It would depend on your schedule and timing.

If the shuttles are not running in Devils Post Pile National Monument then you can drive your vehicle down there.<BR><BR>I don't think the road was scary at all. Just take it slow. It is very windy. But there isn't much traffic at all after the shuttles stop running. <BR><BR>IMHO if the road is scary then it doesn't matter who's driving!<BR><BR>Utahtea

To: Barthox<BR>For an early start on your way to Death Valley, you could go from Yosemite Village to Lone Pine - straight driving time would be about 5 hours. Alabama Hills Hotel is very nice, and at the intersection to Death Valley. Best Western Frontier has older and newer sections. Lone Pine is much smaller than Bishop. Will be going passing through there in a couple of weeks! <BR><BR>To: Utahtea -- you're right. The road to Devils Postpile is good, if open. I just get a tad nervous sitting in the passenger seat, going up hill, the last 1/2 mile or so. Better than years back when it wasn't paved, narrower, potholes, and you had to watch for falling rocks.