obxgirl, a couple reasons for favoring TOTR:

1. You rarely, if ever, have to wait to get up there, as opposed to the Empire State Building where the wait could turn into an eternity.

2. TOTR has one big advantage, namely, you can see the Empire State Building from there! Obviously, you can't say that about the Empire State Building!

"What makes the Top of the Rock a "must do" and the Empire State Building a "must pass" ?"

There are long lines to get in, and of course you can't see the building itself because you are on it, but mostly it's just become a bit of Fodor's received wisdom, repeated by all and sundry. Full disclosure -- haven't been up in the ESB since 1981 and have no intention of returning, but everyone should do it once.

We have this ESB vs. Top of the Rock debate a lot. I've been to both, and I really enjoyed the ESB back when it was much less elaborate. You just stood in line for the elevator and went to the top (it took sometimes as much as 15 minutes to get onto the elevator). But I also did the top of the World Trade Center and found it to be egregiously overly commercialized and schlocky ... and I didn't really want to have views of NJ (you couldn't see Central Park from there easily).

Why? The stupid Skyride was the main culprit---one of the reasons the ticket to the World Trade Center was always so outrageously expensive and one of the most stupid and useless experiences of my life. It's now been resurrected in the ESB, much to my dismay, when they created the extra secret line part of the ESB on the 2nd floor a few years ago and doubled the entry price. I did a similar "ride" at Pier 39 in San Francisco (for free, mind you), and even with the free ticket, I felt that I'd been robbed.

Add the snaking, endless line (also inherited from the WTC) and security, and it's just too annoying for words. But I just don't have the patience I had when I was young and first in the city. So perhaps a tourist with more verve and more of a desire to experience the ESB would like it more than most New Yorkers do. I feel that I have a limited amount of time and money, so I have to dole both out to the places that deserve them the most.

I like to engage the locals by playing card games with them on the sidewalk. These gentlemen set up their games on cardboard boxes for the convenience of passing tourists. I have always enjoyed these encounters and have profited from them.

I like to engage the locals by playing card games with them on the sidewalk.
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Do you play chess in the parks, handball in Coney Isalnd, and basketball in The Cage?

<<Do they still do 'behind the scene' tours at Lincoln Center? I remember going in elementary school and seeing Leonard Bernstein rehearsing with the NY Philharmonic.>>

One of New York's great treats and bargains is attending an Open Rehearsal of the NY Philharmonic in Avery Fisher Hall. This week I attended the rehearsal of Mahler's Fifth Symphony plus an appearance by Emanuel Ax. Tickets are $18 - and you sit in the same seats that go for $90 for the evening concert. The next Rehearsal scheduled is for May 3 - this one is at 1:15 pm - they usually take place in the morning.
And here's another great spot for a lunch picnic (or even evening supper) - Bryant Park lots of tables with great views of surrounding skyscrapers (Empire State, Chrysler). Pick up a sandwich and drink at Pret a Manger on 42 St. between 5th and 6th.

You'll love the food tour of Greenwich Village; that's one of our favorite things to do. The one for China town is fun too. If you go to the High Line, Chelsea Market is right there and has a lot of little food shops and bakeries. We liked the Empire State Building, but loved the Top of the Rock; we saw a proposal while we were up there. If you like irreverent humor, check out Avenue Q. It's moved off Broadway to a more intimate theater.

MFNYC:

<i>Do they still do 'behind the scene' tours at Lincoln Center?</i>

I recently took 2 tours: one is a Lincoln Center campus tour, the other is the Met Opera backstage tour. I've described both in my TR: http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...april-2011.cfm

For the Campus tour, I don't think the tour goes into any of the theatres IF there's a rehearsal going on. As for the Met Backstage tour, I've taken it twice but both times were on a Sunday when the house was dark. They do offer tours during the week when there are performances.

They do the behind the scenes tours at Lincoln Center only at certain times of the year when the opera is on.
http://www.metoperafamily.org/educat...backstage.aspx

I think it's unfair to call the hop on/off buses tourist traps. They serve a purpose and many tourists like them.

One of the biggest tourist "cons" are many of the various passes that are sold. They rarely save significant money if you know about pay what you wish museum entries and free times and often have tourists running around trying to fit in things they wouldn't otherwise even bother with just because it's on the pass.

Thanks to those who answered my question about ESB v. TOTR. I haven't visited either in years. I thought both places were touristy but not traps. Never felt compelled to return but now I know which to choose from if I'm with someone who is interested.

Otherwise, Doug_Stallings, I will abide by and concur with the remainder of your No Go list.

"Must-do" vs "tourist trap" is purely subjective.

Very true, tenthumbs. And two visitors in the city at the same time can have completely different lists and both have fabulous experiences.

I've done both the Emire State Building and The top of The Rock and loved both, however while i was able to go up The Top of the Rock in Broad Daylight (with small queues) I only went up the Empire State Building late at night (and did that on both occasions) when there were no queues. However i liked seeing NYC at night, more so from the ESB than from the ground!

There are two spectacular views of Manhattan at night. One is on the Staten Island heading back to Manhattan. As the ferry draws closer the lights get brighter.

The other is from promenade in Brooklyn Heights, which has been photogrpahed more times than the questions has been asked about which is better Top or Empire State.

The price for both is limited to the mode of transportation that gets you there.

Agreed with Aduchamp1 about the Staten Island Ferry. Take the 1 train downtown to the end and you can walk there. The Ferry is free, takes about 20 minutes each way. You can also take the 1 train all over the West Side including Times Square, Broadway, Columbus Circle/Central Park, American Museum of Natural History, etc etc.
I'd avoid any restaurants in Times Square and that includes the per-pound buffets like "Smileys". Cannot stress this enough, their food is crap.
I agree with seeing the High Line, I'd also add Harlem to the list (I'm sure this will raise eyebrows) but Harlem has really changed and places like Strivers Row are worth seeing as it is a historic district restored to its former glory. I realize you can also find old brownstones on Upper West Side, but just a suggestion to head further uptown if you can.

I live in Manhattan for 10+ years and am a real estate broker so have seen every neighborhood inside and out. If you need logistical info on how to get around, feel free to ask.

Enjoy the city!

If you like baseball, you can take the SI ferry and go see a Staten Island Yankees minor league baseball came....or take the subway to Coney Island for the Brooklyn Cyclones (Mets minor league team)

Maybe this is what you're looking for: http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...ty-TG-C-1.html


HTTY

Wow! This is great. Thanks!

If your decide to Top of the Rock or the Empire State Building.. check the weather first.. Its a total waste if its not clear.

I would avoid those tourist buses..they are expensive and there are many reports that the narrations provided by the guides are wildly inaccurate. You can take the subway or bus, it costs the same no matter how far you ride, and you can get a free transfer with some restrictions all for $2.25 a ride.

The chain restaurants are much more expensive in midtown and are awful. Hotel breakfasts can be high priced.. but you can find neighborhood coffee shops that have inexpensive breakfasts.

all those tacky souvenir shops and the camera/electronics stores rank right up there as tourist traps..if you are looking for cameras and electronics at a discount.. go to " B and H " or "J and R" these are reliable places that also have legit websites and great selections.

When you go to the theater if you are looking to eat nearby, there are lots of small restaurants along ninth avenue that are reasonably priced.
Personally, I would not go to Carmine's, in any location.

If you want good deli...Katz's on the lower east side is the
place.. it has plenty of tourists and regulars too...

There is still construction/renovations in Washington Sq Park.
In Madison Sq Park you can join the lines at the Shake Shack for burgers, hot dogs, shakes etc...there are other locations and its not a tourist trap

as for those who engage in card games in the street or chess games in the park...its a fine opportunity to be taken and have your wallet lifted as well.

if you want to buy things that say "New York" rather than those awful souvenir shops.. there is a store in the municipal building near city hall that sells nyc souvenirs...its called the city store they have a website ..

New Yorkers are full of opinions and arent shy about sharing them.. so ask people you meet about restaurants, shops etc. Im sure you will get helpful answers

enjoy your stay

Doug...I have to disagree on a few things

ESB vs. TOTR - Been to & liked both. Each has its pros & cons. I personally liked the Sky Ride, but that was not the main purpose of our visit to ESB. We had a pass that allowed us to go to several venues. I do like being a TOTR in the evening when ESB is all lit up.

The hop on/hop off buses serve a purpose. I don't think they're good for actual transportation, but if you want to cover a lot of ground you can just stay on and listen to the narrative which I didn't think was bad. The one we chose ran until pretty late at night.

OP doesn't indicate who is traveling. Hard Rock and Margaritaville are not the worst alternatives if you are with teenagers. Especially if you are tired of walking and hungry and just can't seem to decide on something else.

I didn't really care for Katz's. Thought it was overrated and not worth the wait for a table. I don't consider having people standing all around waiting to pounce on your table very appealing.

A buggy ride through Central Park at dusk is a definite option for many people. We had a great guide and really enjoyed our ride, which was not the shortest one, but not the longest either.

Depending on how many days one will spend in the city, subway passes can be obtained for 1 day and 7 day unlimited rides. If the subway will be your main mode of transportation, the 7 day pass is really worth it, even if you're only there for 3 days. Otherwise the fare is $2.25 a pop!