Most Americans I know who are opposed to our system of tipping would be even more unhappy if they were suddenly told that there would be no more tipping ever, but all restaurant prices were going up 20% to cover that. The main reason I think most people are opposed to the system is they really think someone else (like a restaurant owner) should be taking money out of his own pocket to pay good salaries rather than include it in the food prices. That simply doesn't make any sense, but most people don't seem to consider that the restaurant business IS a for-profit venture, not a charity.

NP, I'm not that stupid.

I didn't imply that you are!

I said, "most Americans I know who are opposed. . ." and I have heard that idea over and over again. And even on this site many people seem to suggest that the restaurants should pay the servers full salaries but are quick to add that they shouldn't raise their prices to do that. That simply doesn't make sense.

And we should all get free health care without raising taxes, too :-)

LOL.
But let's be honest, our government is actully more likely to go into debt to give away something for nothing, than a profit-seeking restaurant is! I mean they've done it so many times before.

That's true, but it's the people who "demand" it that kill me. We want our health care, we want our roads fixed, we want smaller classes, we want this we want that, but ooooh, we don't want to <i>pay</i> for it LOL.

Well here is an interesting article from the SF Chron & ktvu about a woman in NC that is being refused service by a restaurant due to her lack of tipping in the past. The article reminded me of this thread of course.
http://www.ktvu.com/money/22655961/detail.html

Wow. That is really something

That article is something, I wonder if ALL patrons are forced to pay 18% or if they are just giving that lady a push out the door. My Golf club charges 18% gratuity on all food, even when Im taking out...so it could be a restaraunt policy

I've run into too many small business owners who shoot themselves in the foot by focussing too much on the bottom line and not enough on service.

I would wager this restaurant has loads of ways to increase profit by cutting corners.

This jerk of a restaurant owner is getting exactly what he deserves. Monica--go girl. And, go to other restaurants that welcome your business.

There is probably a lot more to that story than simply tipping. A friend tells me of a couple who went to his restaurant often (he's a server) and every time complained of something then demanded free dessert or an entree taken off the bill, after they licked the plate clean. Finally the manager confronted them and said, "since we can never please you, we request you to not patronize us and find a restaurant that pleases you." Meanwhile, of course, they never left a tip either, citing that their experience was so bad it didn't warrant one. Well, everyone at the restaurant is glad they are gone. They did return a few months later, and the manager stuck to his guns, "I'm sorry, we have no one who feels they can please you here. You should probably go elsewhere." And he refused to seat them.

That very well could be the case, Patrick. In all of my years in the insurance business there were two different business insurance clients that I had to say the same type of thing to as nothing ever pleased them. I found out which agency one of the clients went to as often at social functions or insurance gatherings the owner of the agency who was a great fellow would tease me and say "what did I ever do to you to deserve that client you use to have?".

Hotel Maid are actually paid above minimum wage. My sister worked in Seattle and was paid $11 an hour more than a clerical tip. For that she cleaned 15 rooms a day. Her tips for those rooms were on average 4 no pay and the others $1-$5 she averaged about $45 in tips. To give you an idea. Her pay before taxes, etc. was $440 after it was around $290 a week on top of that she made another $225 in untaxable tips. Or nearly $900 a month. When temps in Seattle made around $8-$12 an hour these maid jobs were gravy. So before you think a maid is anything like a server. Maids get benefits, days off, vacation, medical and on and on - As a server we get no benefits and work sometimes 60 hour weeks for 40 hour below minimum rage pay. The tips are everything. And WE HAVE TO DECLARE THEM IF WE GET THEM OR NOT.

Interesting, Alex "9"
I wonder if the same applies in small town USA.

I can tell you that maids aren't paid anything like that in Florida. I worked as a manager in a luxury convention hotel in Orlando for years, and housekeepers were paid barely minimum wage. Plus, they had to clean more rooms than that. Guess it varies by state.

Sludick, general statements like that are wrong. I can assure you that maids in some of the top resorts in Florida (I'm in Naples) ARE paid like that and even more, not to mention some firms (like Ritz Carlton) that offer all kinds of benefits and even free transportation to their jobs. But of course, one in a mom and pop motel somewhere might not make that much. And if there is a glut of applicants for jobs at a huge convention hotel that doesn't care if they keep employees or reward them, then of course they may not make that much. The same is pretty much true in any state. That's just common sense. Like any other job or profession, there is a wide range of how people are treated and paid.