Hawaii Blue Books Revealed
 

http://kgmb9.com/kgmb/display.cfm?storyID=8153#revealed

I thought I would post this article again for a few newcomers who might not realize the controversy behind their favorite travel guide.

I would invite those who have not - to search this forum and tripadvisor travel forum to make you own conclusions regarding these guides, and whether when educated you will still recommend them. (blue book, blue bible, revealed books etc)

There are many reasons to love these books, but buyer beware.

On that note, there was a story in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin about a week ago describing how a man barely survived a 40-foot fall off a cliff at Makapuu Point on the east shore of Oahu. He and his wife had left a marked path and were hiking on an unmarked trail described in a guidebook, when the man fell about 20 feet, landed on a ledge and then fell another 20 feet to another ledge below. The man was conscious and alert, but had some trauma injuries from falling on the sharp and jagged rocks when a helicopter crew airlifted him out.

I don’t have a copy of the Ultimate “blue bible” Guide for Oahu, but it would be interesting to see if it advises going off-trail at Makapuu Point

That link doesn't seem to be working for me. Is that article still active. I am looking for a good guidebook for Kauai. Any suggestions?

I am a veritable safety nut, maybe that's why I don't find these books threatening for myself, in that I pick up on their warnings - even the subtle ones.

They often say to check conditions with locals & officials & that conditions can vary greatly. They also strongly encourage use of common sense, though I think some people prefer not to listen to theirs.

I do own/use a copy for each of the major four islands & have found them very helpful guides.

There are several cautionary statements in their articles regarding this beach & trail as they tell you how to get there & describe what is there.

What I like about this guide is that it is easy to use, great maps & descriptions & pictures.

I avoid any of the areas some indicate are 'controversial' in regards to trespassing, as I don't need to do that to enjoy myself in Hawaii.
There is plenty to do without inflaming/offending anyone who lives there, and that would ruin the spirit of the trip IMO.

We have used the last three editions of "The Big Island Revealed" and have found them to be very accurate, and to include warnings when conditions may be unsafe.

I could not find the article on the link, so I don't know what it said. But I just want to say that anyone with good sense would not be misled by anything in the books.

We used the books in Hawaii last summer and loved them! We used our own judgement to decide if what we were doing was safe or not. The books contain many warnings about unsafe places. As with anything else, you have to use your own common sense! You should not leave marked trails, especially when cliffs are involved!

In addition to trails, the book also provides useful information on restaurants and places to visit. I think they are invaluable resources.

i own the ultimate kauai revealed, and i'm unsure as i'm not really THAT adventurous. so i'm going to purchase a few other books and see if they offer anything else. I do appreciate their food reviews however, since i am a foodie.

in the early nineties we found big island revealed revealed a trail that trespassed on our property. we wrote letters, that were ignored until we threaten legal action, sadly. they left most of it in there but with a disclaimer.

FYI cabrack - the original post was done in March 2007, which is probably why it doesn't work now.
Deb

There was a death at Kipu Falls on Kauai the other day.

Private property, but according to the owners, tons of people have been making the trek ever since it was written up in Kauai Revealed.

Try these two article links for more perspective.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../ln/ln01a.html

http://starbulletin.com/2007/08/26/news/story03.html

Thanks for posting those articles, hawaiifanatic.

We're planning a trip to Maui and the Big Island this fall, and when I found a used copy of Maui Revealed, I bought it just to see what all the fuss is about.

So far, it's been very helpful as I'm looking at Kihei condos, but I think their warnings about dangerous spots on hikes could be more strongly worded, as could their comments on the EMI properties.

Lee Ann

Infamous, if you are planning to get few other guide books for Kauai anyway, why not look into Kauai Underground Guide by Lenore Horowitz? It must be in its 20th edition by now. This one is of Biblican importance, IMO.

Anna Roz

anna, i'll look into it. thanks.

As the original poster of this, I do not recall which article I was sharing. I will see if I can find a new link. I think it was an article in which one of the authors were interviewed regarding the many complaints. The answers were flip, arrogant and complacent dismissals of any responsability.

Again, I will search for the article, if this is in fact the post I recall regarding that interview, and the answers I found very disturbing from Andrew Doughty/

you're sistahlou, too? i learn something new. i saw you wrote you were gyppie. just don't et banned as k-lani, ok?

as far as the blue books goes. i have no problem since they've made corrections from their first print. the trail on our property is by permission only and we grant that to certain groups. kauai too, lots of sites privy to some not printed in kauaiunderground. but its private property and at least kug is respectful. same goes for maui. oahu on the otherhand...

Being encouraged to ignore "no trespassing"signs has been a big problem with the books and sometimes has resulted in more than just property-owner anger, as this story illustrates (look for it in the lower right of the webpage)....

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...ok-flood_x.htm

I have three of the guidebooks, and I think they do a good job of telling people not to go where they shouldn't.
And nowhere in my books do they encourage trespassing on private property; maybe that was something from the first editions?

I hope that's true. I recall reading the story at the (no longer active) link that sistalou posted at the beginning of this thread and the authors were expressing stubborn refusal to make such revisions. I always felt that if they would make these revisions all would be well with the guides. Perhaps it got to the point where there was enough hue and cry that they thought it better to opt on the side of respecting private property and encouraging safety rather than reckless action. I don't have the latest "Maui Revealed" at my fingertips. As a test case, do they still advocate going into the Olivine Pools? And if so, what kinds of precautions do they include?

My used copy of Maui Revealed has a 2006 copyright; I don't know if they have updated it since.

Olivine Pools - they say (really condensing here) the rocks can be slippery; high surf at high tide or prolonged heavy rain can ruin the area; big waves could make it dangerous; don't get too close to the ocean; don't get too close to the blowhole; there is a faint trail to the pools ("footing can be awkward and a bit slippery"). But they still advocate going there.

Lee Ann

That's an improvement over my earlier edition where they wrote about being "snug and smug" in the pools with nary a warning about any dangers. If I get a chance, I'll look up their latest editions and match them against a checklist of other recommended spots (e.g. Queen's Bath on Kauai and the Blue Pool on Maui) that have got tourists into trouble in the past when following their advice. I'll try to report back on what I find.

in the latest issue, they kinda make Queen's Bath easy to reach. is it true? when we go there, i want this to be safe, i dont want to risk anything, and i definitely dont want to be hated by the locals. i just want to respect the area, just like i'd want my area respected.

hawaiifanatic: I'd like to see that, thanks!

Reading news articles of people being swept off the rocks by Queen's Bath has been enough to keep me away. Can it really be worth risking your life? Not for me!

Queen’s Bath is easy to get to. I’ve been in it myself (before I knew better). The guidebook edition I have describes it as “a delightful swimming spot.” The pool is kept filled by waves that wash over a lava rock shelf, but when you’re in the pool you can’t see the surf unless it breaks over the shelf. So there’s no way to keep an eye on the surf until it might be too late. Some swimmers in Queen’s Bath have been grabbed by a wave and swept out to sea; then when they tried to swim back in, they got crushed against the rocks by the pounding surf.

In April 2002 at Queen’s Bath, a Massachusetts man drowned when he was swept out to sea with two other relatives (who were successfully rescued). In March 2003, a California man died while trying to save his grandson there. Authorities considered permanently closing off access to the pool, but decided to post a warning sign instead. (But as the lifeguards on the beaches will tell you, most everyone ignores warning signs).

I think the books are great and have used them quite a bit.
But....what bothers me is the tone of the writing. It may just be me, but there is certain arrogance that comes through. As though they feel intitled to do and see whatever they want in Islands.
If the locals don't want tourists come through certain parts of the Islands then I think that should be respected. They already share so much of their home with us that I think some places should just be left alone.
Just my 2 cents.

I think you've put your finger on the main problem glimmer. The authors are transplants from the mainland who seemed to have traveled around the Islands with that attitude and then in their books recommended that visitors do the same.

I think the other problem is that in their personal experience they may have not run into dangers at, say, the Olivine Pools or Queen's Bath, but that doesn't mean there are not genuine hazards in these spots. The antidote would have been to consult Hawaii's safety experts (lifeguards, rangers, police, etc) to learn from their experience and then pass that on to readers.

<i>If the locals don't want tourists come through certain parts of the Islands then I think that should be respected</i>

Well, I'm local to San Francisco. So does this mean I can keep tourists off the Golden Gate Bridge?

dmlove,
No, the Golden Gate Bridge is a tourist attraction, like Waikiki Beach.
If droves of tourist started showing up at your favorite little coffee shop, turning your 5 minute wait into 20 minutes you may get peeved.
If tour buses started parking on your street at all hours of the day that may get to you. It would bug me. I lived in the City for 3 years and street parking places were like gold!
I don't think you can compare a city to Hawaii anyway.

That's not the point, and maybe I used a bad example. No, I wouldn't want tour buses parked on my street, and no, I'd prefer not to have droves of tourists inhabiting my little local coffee shop, but we have something called a constitution. It isn't up to &quot;the locals&quot; to decide what parts of the island should be open to tourists and what parts shouldn't (I'm not talking about private property, which of course, must be respected). I'm talking about public areas - sorry, but if they're public for Hawaiians, then they're public for everyone. Let's use another non-urban example. Let's say San Franciscans decide that only San Franciscans should be allowed to visit Angel Island, is that okay?

“Locals should not decide what parts of the island should be open to tourists and what parts shouldn’t.”

dml, thats not what’s going on. The trail on my property leads to a destination not privately owned. You’re welcomed to it, as anyone else, so long you don't trespass on my property without permission. As for most destinations which may not be private, the route might be. The trail on our property was open for public use until the internet gained popularity. Its also how I eventually ended up here along with other sites.

We were taken to small claims and lost, because some idiot got hurt on the property, he admitted finding out about the trail via travel website (not this one). The court ruled in his favor and advised us to put a parameter fence. Too costly. So, I along with other property owners decided the internet could be used to &quot;cybersit&quot; our properties. By monitoring travel sites, blogs and forums, we've helped circumvent would-be trespassers because we know the court won't. We also realize we can’t stop everyone. btw, the groups that do have permission are non-hawaiians, too. Not sure where the comment came from, “if they're public for Hawaiians, then they're public for everyone.” These groups help to maintain the trail. They don’t defecate, urinate or leave their trash, which was a big problem before all this.

Really, all you have to do is ask.

kauai aka, I am not disagreeing with you in the slightest. I think you have the right to protect and make rules regarding your private property, and more than anything, you shouldn't be liable to the idiots who trespass and then get hurt. I was only &quot;commenting&quot; on the idea that locals get to decide which sites should be open to tourists and which should not.

I don't think this is a big enough issue to drag the Constitution into it...but I don't think you get what I'm saying.
No one is saying that locals decide what sights are open to tourists. There are areas that the locals don't want to see a parade of Mustang convertables driving through. These areas aren't usually places that the average tourist would want to go to anyway. There are still plenty of remote and out the way ares to visit without stepping on people's toes. This subject was brought up in regards to the tone conveyed in the Blue Books anyway.
Sure you can venture into every nook and cranny of every Island if you wish. Just don't expect to be welcomed with open arms. And don't get too upset if greeted with a healthy dose of stink eye.
Me, I'll respect long time local families' wishes and I won't clog up their beaches or intrude on their
neighborhoods. There is still more than enough beauty left me to take in.

BTW, Angel Island isn't a neighborhood, it's a State Park. The purpose of a State Park is to preserve a piece of land for the public to visit and enjoy. So by it's very existence it should visited and enjoyed by visitors and locals alike.

&gt;&gt;If I get a chance, I'll look up their latest editions and match them against a checklist of other recommended spots (e.g. Queen's Bath on Kauai and the Blue Pool on Maui) that have got tourists into trouble in the past when following their advice. I'll try to report back on what I find.&lt;&lt;

I was in Borders today and took a look at the latest edition of Maui Revealed (hey, someone has to suffer for the sake of other Fodorites). :-D

They have added another warning to the Olivine Pools section, saying that some people who got too close to the ocean there have been swept off the rocks and that some have drowned. They also wrote that you can get smacked by the waves even when you're in the pools.

Lee Ann

Sounds like they're getting there on these guidebook entries; that's good. I never thought it was useful or reasonable to tell people &quot;proceed at your own risk&quot; if people don't know what the risks are. So the more specifics the better.