Alsoa, when you make statements like:<BR><BR>"Gun-owning parents with legal guns teach their children about gun safety and keep the guns locked."<BR><BR>and,<BR><BR>"People who carry legally are by far more law-abiding than the rest of the public."<BR><BR>I'd say you've blown your whole argument. You are obviously looking at this issue through smoke-tinted glasses. Everyone knows you can bend statistics to say what you want. <BR><BR>The fact is, most of us know someone who has owned a gun and never taught their children anything about it. I've known two people who had hidden guns in their houses and were convinced their kids didn't even know they had them. One kid found his dad's gun and sold it to buy drugs. Another kid found the gun and gave it to a friend to commit a crime. <BR><BR>Most of the illegal guns out there have been stolen from someone who had a permit and didn't do what needed to be done (keep it locked up) to prevent it's theft. <BR><BR>Having a permit to carry a gun doesn't make you smarter, more cautious or more law abiding. Puleeze. Plenty of idiots carry guns.

Who cares? Isn't this a travel site?

Here is another absolutely true story. We have a friend who loves guns. He's a frustrated cop who is an executive but went through Police Academy training and volunteered to "ride along" with a local Police dept. He has what amounts to a small arsenal in his home. One day while my family was at his house for dinner, he took us to his study to show us some of his guns locked in a gun cabinet. I was freaked because he has small children at home, and our children were with us. <BR><BR>I expressed my concern and he said that there was nothing to worry about since the cabinet is always locked, the key and the ammunition were hidden, so there is no way the kids could get near the guns.<BR><BR>Just then, his 4 year old daughter said "I know where the key is, I know where the key is" and ran off to the guest room, pulled a chair over to the closet, climbed up and got the key wich was "hidden" under a box. Scared the s**t out of me. I will NOT allow my kids in their house. They still have the guns.

Another true story. Two kids in Oakland were home on one of those teacher work days. Both of their parents were cops. They found a gun and were playing with it when it discharged and the younger kid is a quadraplegic now. Yes, the parents were charged with a criminal offense, but you can't convince me that just because someone has a permit or is a COP they are keeping their kids safe.

Very true. However, there are risks in everything. My kids could get killed riding their bikes or the bus to school. We do everything possible to protect them and reduce risks. Owning guns is one way to protect them. I live in a nice suburban area too, but being a cop I can tell you there are plenty of robberies and rapes here. No area is completely safe, so lock your doors, windows, call 911, and get a gun. <BR><BR>As for safety, my guns are in a locked safe. Our children do not know the combination. (It's not my wedding date or birthday or anything stupid like that.) The guns also cannot be used unless you're wearing a special magnetic ring. (It costs only $300 to modify a gun this way.)<BR><BR>Everytime I approve a gun permit, I give the parent a long talk about how to store their guns. If you're responsible, you won't have a problem. Sounds like that other cop was not responsible.

Policeman: "If you're responsible, you won't have a problem". That's about the most concise owner's manual for life that I've ever seen. The cops in our town are great - sounds like they're great where you work, too.

Yeah John, what happens when your kid goes over to play at the irresponsible friends house and finds their unlocked, loaded gun lying around? Oh well, gee, it's too bad that everyone isn't responsible, unfortunately your kid is dead as a result. <BR><BR>If you had a brain you'd be dangerous. In fact, your line of thinking already IS dangerous.

I own no guns, don't understand why people feel a need to carry them. <BR><BR>But they do. And it's legal.<BR><BR>How come so many legitimate questions in these forums turn into debates? XXX didn't ask what we thought about it. He asked "Is it allowed"<BR><BR>4cryingOutLoud, Why not just answer the question, or MOVE ON!

I think we all can agree that if you can't pack heat, the terrorists have one.

Smarten: I don't know why I'm bothering, but for the record - allowing your kid to play at an irresponsible friend's (note correct use of the apostrophe) house wouldn't be responsible, now would it?

John, do you have kids? If you do, you know that houses with handguns that aren't locked up don't usually have a sign out front saying so. I always make a point (as does my wife) of asking the parents of my kids' friends if they have guns in the house. Sometimes they say yes, and it's locked up, blah, blah, blah. Do I go into their house and inspect? No, I just ask their kid to play at our house instead. Do you go and inspect? And this doesn't even count the families who just blatantly lie and say they have no guns. Believe me, it happens. But most parents never even ask the question ("oh, they seem like a nice family, I'm sure they don't have guns").

Of course Bernard Goetz was mugged in the New York subway... the muggers were out on bail before the police finished questioning him (the victim)!<BR>The next time, he had a gun. A couple of guys with sharpened screwdrivers ("We were just going to use them to break into pinall machines! Honest! We were just pan-handling!") demanded 5 bucks apiece. He still spent more time with the police afterward than they did...<BR>You can cite stories from both sides of the street. Who was it who said "never pull a gun unless you're prepared to use it"? There are lots of people who are too stupid to drive, too, but we let them. If you can devise an intelligence test - "Are you smart enough to carry a gun?" - I'd love to hear it. <BR> Meanwhile, the smart people usually benefit from what they do, and the dumb people usually weed themselves out, or those dumb enough to associate with them. As O Henry said "the contest is not always to the strongest, or the race to the fastest... but that's the way to bet."<BR>

I think xxx is my brother in law. He's a gun fanatic who won't go anywhere without them. On the two hour drive from his home to Washington DC to visit the Smithsonian, he insisted on taking one in the car, knowing that he could not take it into the museum and would be searched (post 9/11). I asked him what would he do if a terrorist/lunatic attacks in the museum or on the walk to/from the parked car a few blocks away. He said "Run like Hell to the car". <BR><BR>These people make no sense.

You say that gun freaks are scary? Silly little me...I thought CRIMINALS were scary. I suppose you'd label me a gunfreak because I carry a gun. <BR><BR>Several women have been violently attacked in my urban neighborhood, so I got a concealed carry permit, took a safety course, and learned how to shoot. <BR><BR>Getting a gun was the responsible thing to do, and the policeman I talked with commended me for doing so. The police are overworked and understaffed. Police can't be everywhere at once, and responsible, law-abiding citizens with guns make neighborhoods safer. <BR><BR>I'm a law-abiding citizen. I've never even gotten a parking ticket in my entire life! Why should I be denied the right to protect myself? Do I deserve to be victimized just because I'm not wealthy enough to live in posh suburbs like miss amomtoo and some of the other writers?

Well of course criminals are scary and I don't mean that everyone that carries a gun is a gun freak. I don't blame you if you live in a high crime area, maybe I would carry one too. I'm talking about the paranoid ones that live in safe neighborhoods but think there's a thug waiting to jump them at any time. The ones that "need" a gun where ever they go. The ones with a gun stockpile. The ones that might shoot you accidentally in the night if they think you are an intruder. The ones with small children in the house who may someday get curious. The ones that say "you'll get my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hands".

Traveling man: I take no issue with your point and sympathize with the difficulties. If you review my postings in this thread you will see that I (1) recommended that the original poster learn and follow the gun laws, (2) reminded those who were busily forming a lynch mob that all he'd done was ask a question about how to act in accordance with the law, and (3) suggested that living one's life responsibly is not a bad goal. For that I was attacked by Smarten as either (a) feeble-minded or (b) dangerous.<BR><BR>If you review Smarten's posting you will note that he/she refers to an "irresponsible friend". Now, I have plenty of friends and I know plenty of irresponsible people, but I don't have any irresponsible friends and, if I did, particularly if they happened to be gun owners, I'd get rid of them. Apparently Smarten not only has such friends but even allows his/her kids to play in their homes. I merely pointed that out as irresponsible behavior, which it is.<BR><BR>I have carefully avoided joining the gun/anti-gun debate here because it is pointless, and will not do so now. I perceive we come down on opposite sides of that question and I respect your views even though I disagree with them.

I am attending a gun show this weekend and would like to take a model airplane in my carry-on bag. What are the chances I will be searched and asked not to attend?<BR>;)

Interestingly enough, yearight, it is highly possible for a person to be neither a pedophile or a drug addict and still have a loaded gun sitting in the nightstand drawer. As you can see by the posters on this thread, there are many people in this world who feel justified packing heat wherever they go. I will never have a gun in my house nor do I want my kids around them. There are probably 5-10 houses on my street with guns (the guy with the military vehicle in his front yard who is always dressed in camouflage worries me, he no doubt has an arsenal), but I doubt there are 5-10 pedophiles on my street. Believe me, I worry about that too. I wouldn't leave my kids alone with a priest either ;-). Perhaps you feel safer with a gun in your house. I feel safer without one. As John said above, we are not going to agree. As another poster said above, I have a problem with rabid gun owners who are irresponsible. I'm realistic, I don't think we will ever live in a world without guns, but I'd like to see more control over who gets to carry one and I'd like to see child safety locks.

Travelling man said: "I wouldn't leave my kids alone with a priest either ;-)."<BR><BR>oooooookay, so we are going to take this in a different direction, eh? I know your little "netiquette" winky face means you're kiddin, but what an insult!<BR><BR>As long as we're doing gun-toting facts, FACT is 97% of reported pedophiles are married men or women. (2000 National Crime Statistics from Convictions) And yes, I agree the priest problem is with the word "reported." But don't go pointing a finger at the celibate lifestyle and say that's the cause; there are perverts in the world in all walks of life. Just as there are coverups, too. Expose them all!!!<BR><BR>Now how about some wine and wafers?

xx2, You're right, I think an intelligence test to award gun ownership is absurd. That's why I think that NO ONE should be allowed to carry a gun, unless they are an on duty policeman or in the military.<BR><BR>And some of you must be the most naive bunch of dopes around. How do you know who is responsible and who isn't? As another poster explained, not everyone "fesses up" to keeping a loaded gun at home. If you sent your child to play somewhere where you were told there wasn't a gun, and lo and behold they found one, and used it, it would be small consolation to know that the owners lied.<BR><BR>Several years ago in a nearby town a well known minister, pillar of the community, went out to dinner with his wife. His 2 sons were home, one 13 the other 11, they found a long forgotten rifle and one accidentaly shot the other in the head, killing him. By all accounts this guy was the most responsible guy around. Now he and his remaining son have to live with his carelessness for the rest of their lives.<BR><BR>Give your stupid excuses to the parents of an innocent child who's life was destroyed by a careless gun owner. Fact is, not everyone is responsible, and innocent victims need to be protected from the careless owners. Now since no one knows for sure who is or will be responsible, the risk is just too great to allow anyone to own a gun. <BR><BR>If some of the gun toting folks are upset that they won't have their toys, I mean guns, to play with, thats just too bad. It's fun to play with big fireworks too, but they are illegal in many states because someone could get hurt. Grow up and make the sacrifice people. A child's life could depend on it.

xx2, You're right, I think an intelligence test to award gun ownership is absurd. That's why I think that NO ONE should be allowed to carry a gun, unless they are an on duty policeman or in the military.<BR><BR>And some of you must be the most naive bunch of dopes around. How do you know who is responsible and who isn't? As another poster explained, not everyone "fesses up" to keeping a loaded gun at home. If you sent your child to play somewhere where you were told there wasn't a gun, and lo and behold they found one, and used it, it would be small consolation to know that the owners lied.<BR><BR>Several years ago in a nearby town a well known minister, pillar of the community, went out to dinner with his wife. His 2 sons were home, one 13 the other 11, they found a long forgotten rifle and one accidentaly shot the other in the head, killing him. By all accounts this guy was the most responsible guy around. Now he and his remaining son have to live with his carelessness for the rest of their lives.<BR><BR>Give your stupid excuses to the parents of an innocent child who's life was destroyed by a careless gun owner. Fact is, not everyone is responsible, and innocent victims need to be protected from the careless owners. Now since no one knows for sure who is or will be responsible, the risk is just too great to allow anyone to own a gun. <BR><BR>If some of the gun toting folks are upset that they won't have their toys, I mean guns, to play with, that's just too bad. It's fun to play with big fireworks too, but they are illegal in many states because someone could get hurt. Grow up and make the sacrifice people. A child's life could depend on it.

And what if you could save your child's life with your gun? What if your children understood gun safety, and the guns were locked at all times? <BR><BR>Wouldn't you want one if an armed criminal broke into your house with the intent to rape your wife and murder your children? In the time it takes the police to respond to your 911 call, you could all be dead. <BR><BR>I suppose that's preferable to owning a gun and accepting responsibility for it by teaching your kids about safety and not letting them have friends over when you're not there to supervise???? <BR><BR>You anti-gun people are so naive. I hope you never have to learn the error of your ways the tough way-- by being a victim of crime. And, by the way, how many of you would be willing to post a sign in your yard that says, "I believe in gun control and own no guns"? That would be like saying, "Criminals, please come rob me."

Oh yeah, armed criminals are breaking in houses to murder our children and rape the women ALL the time. Oh please give us the statistics on that occurence. I'd love to see those statistics vs. accidental gun deaths.<BR><BR>I think some people watch WAY too much T.V.<BR><BR>Oh, and I won't be posting signs in my yard as there aren't any deadly weapons inside for anyone to fear, but do us all a favor, If you own guns please post a big sign in YOUR yard so we know to avoid you like the plague.

I'm staying out of the debate on guns in homes, or carrying them, etc. There are many pros and cons both ways.<BR><BR>BUT, xxx, handgun permits are NOT necessarily valid across state lines. If you are caught with the gun in your possession in a state that does NOT honor your permit, the reason "personal protection" will probably NOT be valid.<BR><BR>What to do? Call the airline and ask about their policy on transporting it. Call an agency at your destination to find out about the laws there.

For those of you truly worried that an armed criminal will break in and attack your family I have a suggestion (actually two). A good security system with motion detectors and or a big, loud dog. Both are far more effective deterrents and a lot less lethal. <BR><BR>I guarantee you when a burglar trips our deafening alarm with lights flashing and all hell breaking loose, the'd be half way out of town before they ever stepped more than 10 feet into the house. I would imagine a large dog would be just as effective. Let's face it, that criminal might be standing over your head before you realize he's even there, too late for you to get your gun. Not that criminals want anyone in the house when they get there anyway. But if that is what your concern is about...

You said it Nina. There are much better ways to protect yourself than having a gun. Yes there's the possiblility someone could break into my house and rape or murder me or my family, but having a gun wouldn't necessarily protect us. It's more likely to be used accidentally to harm or kill a family member.<BR><BR>The dog suggestion is a good idea. We had a large female German Shepherd that was the most docile dog around but people that didn't know her were scared to death of her. She was a good deterrent.

Here in Canada... we have very good (excessively strict) laws. You need to jump through hoops to buy and keep a rifle. A pistol is almost impossible. Now turn the bureaucrats loose to enforce these laws:<BR>A police chief is shot on the doorstep by a close friend during a family-hostage incident. The perp had been involved in a standoff with police 20 years earlier. He still got a Firearms Acquisition Certificate. <BR>A seemingly Ok young man acquires some guns (legally) and shoots 11 women in a Montreal college, then himself. I guess some girl there turned him down for a date.<BR>An East Indian man in BC, his wife had complained that he had threatened her. He still got a pistol permit (almost impossible in Canada!). Why? Because she wouldn't lay charges, so the police couldn't put his behaviour on record. He killed 9 people in her family, including her.<BR>84% of gun crimes in Canada are done with illegal weapons. Most of the rest are "he just snapped" crimes, murder-suicides and the like.<BR>I don't own a gun. I think learning to shoot would be interesting in the same way as learning to sail or going hot-air ballooning; but I would not put any faith in the government or laws to ensure that criminals and stupid people can't get guns.<BR>

Good Luck getting a gun into the airport. My husband and I are Police Officers. Even the Police cannot carry in an airport. Unless you work for the airport, or if you get some sort of approval being a VIP, then I would highly doubt you would last. Also, you need to check with your local authority. You are probably violating the law by taking your side arm out of the state with you, depending on where you live.

XXX, you CAN legally bring a gun into the airport IF it is completely unloaded and in a locked container. Then, you must declare the gun to the gate agent, let them inspect the gun (so they can see it is unloaded) and place it in your checked baggage. You CANNOT put it in your carry-on baggage.<BR><BR>Also, can't everyone just agree to disagree on this gun issue? XXX asked a question about travel and probably didn't anticipate being attacked so much. <BR><BR>Carrying a gun doesn't make XXX a bad person or a bad parent as so many of the posters have implied. It's a free country, and the right to carry guns is protected by the Constitution whether we like it or not. So why is everyone still fighting about this? <BR><BR><BR><BR>

Answer xxx's, I concur that we can agree to disagree. However, this is such an emotional issue it is interesting to have this debate in a forum where anonomity is possible and one must use words to get one's point across, therefore many of the replies are well thought out and well written.<BR><BR>I have a question for the people promoting guns for protection. If you have a gun to protect your family from intruders, murderers, rapists, etc., but you also responsibly keep your gun locked away from your kids and unloaded, how does that locked-up- unloaded gun help you in the few minutes you have to react to an intruder? Another poster brought up the point that calling 911 and waiting for the cops will take too long. How long does it take you to get to your gun, unlock it, load it and shoot? Seems to me if you are storing your gun responsibly you are not going to be able to use it in the way some here have described. Enlighten me, I'm naive.

We have guns in our house. Most are hunting rifles or shotguns. One is a handgun. The hunting firearms are kept in a locked case with the ammunition elsewhere. Until our children were born, the handgun was kept loaded. Now it is kept in a spot that only my TALL husband can reach easily, but unloaded. To allay my concerns about the children, it is kept unloaded, but we have speed loaders available. Our children are aware of the guns. They are aware that touching or handling them will SERIOUSLY affect their ability to sit down for a week. We have had frank discussions about the difference between what they see on TV and real life, the effects of a gunshot wound, the dangers of firearms, what to do if a "friend" ever starts to play with a gun, etc. In fact, that scares me more than the guns in our house - something I have stressed to them. I am comfortable with their behavior and knowledge, but not with other children and guns. <BR><BR>But the person who suggested a dog is correct. Actually, it doesn't have to be a big dog, although that's what we have. Ours are very gentle, but I have no doubt that, if pressed, they would protect the family with their lives.

Traveling man, I was thinking the exact same thing. It seems that the gun owners are very contradictory. <BR><BR>Either you are responsible and keep the guns safely locked away, with ammunition kept separately, or, you use the gun for protection and keep it loaded within easy reach. So which is it? In this case you simply can't have it both ways.<BR><BR>To the poster who's gun is kept at the reach of her very tall husband, I shudder to think that you would even allow innocent kids into your home. A child only has to drag a chair over to reach the gun. I hope you tell their parents that you have an unlocked handgun in the house so they can prevent their kids from visiting. Kids have been known to do things they know is wrong, even if they may get spanked for it.

An honest question that deserves an honest answer. I keep an unloaded handgun - in my case a .45 Colt Auto, in a dresser drawer next to my bed. I keep a fully loaded magazine (only) on the top shelf of a closet some steps away. Nobody else in the house knows the location of that magazine, and would not know how to insert it in the gun and chamber a round, an action that takes me perhaps 5 seconds or less. I figure any intruder who is faster than that is going to win anyway. It may not be the perfect system, but it's a compromise that I am satisfiedl with.

If this is really important, and I think it is. Why are you asking people on Fodors about the law and something this serious? Why don't you just call the airport? <BR><BR>It just gets under my skin why people post such crucial things on this board instead of going to the source.

John, I am honestly not trying to be antagonistic but as you can probably tell have strong feelings about this issue. Do you have children in the house? If not, I have no problem with your system, but if you do, don't underestimate what a child is cabable of or what they can or cannot figure out. Kids are very curious, smarter than you think, and could probably figure out how to load a gun. <BR><BR>There was a special on 20/20 a few years ago were very young kids had various unloaded guns and rounds of ammo in front of them. Every kid managed to load the correct gun with the correct ammunition in a matter of minutes. These kids had never even seen a real gun. Their parents were shocked. They also went to homes of gun owners who swore their kids didn't know where the guns or bullets were. In half the homes the kids took the reporter right to the guns AND the ammunition, much to their parents horror.<BR><BR>Just think of the consequences if you are underestimating your kids.

Nina, to further your point, who doesn't remember searching your parents' house high and low for hidden Christmas presents? I know I always found 'em. My two friends whose kids found their guns were *convinced* their kids didn't even know they had them. John, if you have kids I'd seriously weigh the very slight possibility of anyone ever breaking into your house to do harm versus the more possible scenario that your kids know all about that gun and the ammo. <BR><BR>I agree, the threat of a spanking has never gone far to keeping kids from their curiosity. And, gee, is the threat of physical violence against your kid the best way to teach them not to handle guns? <BR><BR>I'm troubled this week by the many reports we've had in Northern California of families involved in murder-suicides that involve guns. In Santa Clara a mother apparently killed her husband and kids before shooting herself last week. And a man in Merced shot and killed his four kids before shooting himself. Life can be hard, we all know, and sometimes people snap. I wonder if a gun hadn't been in those houses if these people would have picked up the phone and asked for help instead of killing their families. Just something to think about.

I'm sure my children could tell you which case the gun is kept in. I am also just as sure they don't mess with it. I am also just as CONFIDENT of their behavior when faced with another child with a gun. It's already happened. An argument on the bus escalated when the boys involved all exited the bus. One boy went into his garage, retrieved a BB rifle and discharged it into the ground in the direction of the bus and other children. Upon seeing the rifle, my child grabbed a friend and crawled under a seat on the other side of the bus while everyone else was hanging out the window. The boy with the BB rifle was suspended and has since moved out of state. <BR><BR>Several times a year, the subject of gun safety comes up in our household. All aspects of it are discussed. Especially the fact that many people have been killed with "unloaded" guns. I have told them that although a bullet is small going in, as it exits the body the wound can be the size of a saucer and the person bleeds to death. Gorey, yes. Attention getting, definitely.

The parents of many dead kids were also "CONFIDENT" and "sure" that their kids didn't know, or wouldn't mess with guns. <BR><BR>Personally I am not that confident about anything with regards to my kids and wouldn't put anything past them (I still remember when I was a kid too, and I'm sure my mom would have felt confident that my brother and I would never have taken the station wagon around the block at 12 and 13 years old. Why, I bet she still wouldn't believe it. We wouldn't have gotten spanked, my dad had a belt for just such occasions, but that didn't stop us). <BR><BR>I hope you never have to find out for sure just how wrong you may be.

And, as for the original question, I agree that the best thing is to check with the FAA, the airline for their specific policies, and authorities at your destination for carrying. There is no subsitute for checking.<BR><BR>With that said, general rules are:<BR>*any firearm has to be in a locked container, unloaded, subject to inspection, check-in only. Ammunition must either be in a seperate container, or per some airlines, not permitted at all. Personally, I have always put handguns in a locked container inside another one (like a locked suitcase).<BR>*some states have reciprocal license agreements with other states. In other words, a concealed-carry permit in one is accepted by others (these tend to be in South and West). <BR>*If you don't want to carry at your destination, check the rules for simply having unloaded gun in car trunk, etc. Many states require no kind of license for this, but some do.<BR>*Use common sense, especially post 9-11. In particular, see if specific airlines have changed any policies.<BR><BR>One question, which is admittedly off-topic, is why this question provoked such vitriol? I mean, I agree that the poster should not rely on this website for such important information, and I and many others have encouraged him to check with the proper sources. Nevertheless, questions that should be addressed to airlines, governments, etc are posted here all the time, and don't generate so much heat. <BR><BR><BR>

Why? Gun control ranks up there with religion and politics as controversial. Me? I'm somewhere in the middle. We have them. Think people with an arsenal of the are nuts however.