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Grand Canyon Railway 3 day, 2 night trip w/toddlers and in-laws

Grand Canyon Railway 3 day, 2 night trip w/toddlers and in-laws

Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:26 AM
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Grand Canyon Railway 3 day, 2 night trip w/toddlers and in-laws

Traveling with spouse, toddlers and in-laws. Thought this would be a fun way to see the Grand Canyon (kids are too young for hiking and such) How is the train ride? Is the hotel, Grand Canyon Railway Hotel, in Williams okay? Some meals (breakfast and dinner) at Railway's Max & Thelma's Restaurant are included. Are they any good? Would love other options/recommendations for seeing the Grand Canyon that are suitable for three young children, ages 2-5 and four seniors, ages 65-76.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 11:03 AM
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Most of us who live in Arizona think the two biggest tourist traps in the state are the Grand Canyon train and the Skywalk. The train ride is long (compared to driving) and boring, though there's a staged 'robbery' that might appeal to the toddlers.

The main complaints are that it much more expensive than simply driving (it would cost about $15-20 in gas to drive round-trip from Williams), too much time is spent in the train (much slower than driving because of the condition of the tracks), and the day-trippers are only at the Canyon for just a few hours mid-day, the worst time to actually see the canyon (with an overnight trip you'd not be affected by this criticism though).

You would be better off to simply rent rooms at the rim and drive up. Faster, hundreds of dollars less expensive, and more flexible while you are at the rim since you'll have transportation.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 11:14 AM
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Thanks! Can you recommend a good hotel at the rim? We'd like to spend under $150 per night and hopefully, have a access to a swimming pool. Also, we will not have transportation as we are taking Amtrak from California to Santa Fe. I think our stop is the Williams Junction Station. Is it possible to rent a car there and drive to our hotel at the rim? Or are there perhaps shuttles or other modes of transportation you can recommend?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 01:15 PM
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Does Amtrak still make a stop in Flagstaff? If so, you could rent a car there and drive to the Grand Canyon.

I imagine it would also be less expensive to take the train to Albuquerque, rather than Santa Fe, and rent a car in Albuquerque. The train doesn't actually stop in Santa Fe, but in Lamy, east of the city.

When do you plan to take this trip?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 01:23 PM
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Have you looked at the park website? All the in-park accomodation information is there under "Plan your visit"

http://www.nps.gov/grca/

None of the in-park accomodations have a pool, that I know of.

The town of Tusayan, just outside the park boundary has plenty of motels with pools. Just googling Grand Canyon accomodations will give you some options. I would not stay in Williams or Flagstaff, way too far away. Tusayan is fine if staying in the park doesn't work out.

This all presumes you will be driving.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 03:09 PM
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The Amtrak Southwest Chief stops in Flagstaff (one stop before Williams). Since there are several car rental places in Flag but few if any in Williams (couldn't find one in town with a quick search) I would plan to get off at Flag and either rent a car or take a shuttle to the GC.

According to this site National Car rental has cars near the train station (it indicates the other rentals are at the airport, which is several miles south of town), so maybe check the National rates for a big mini-van? http://www.trainweb.com/cities/city_flg.htm

Or you can take a shuttle bus to the Grand Canyon from Flag. The Park Service site lists this company for shuttle service from Flag: http://www.openroadtours.com/

I would rather have my own vehicle for the drive up and back (I would go up thru the south entrance, then come back via the east entrance in a scenic loop). Once you are in the park the free shuttles take you to the good spots on the west rim and near the village, but you need a car to access the east rim overlooks.

As for hotels at the GC ... I see that Train package includes a room at Maswik Lodge, which is a good option. This is inside the Park Village but about 400 yards from the actual rim. On the rim the luxury hotel is El Tovar and the budget one is Bright Angel Lodge and Cabins. Thunderbird and Kachina Lodges are also on the rim and in-between in price. We have stayed at Tovar, Maswik, Bright Angel and Yavapai (off the rim) over the years and all were OK. Just grab the one that has availability and fits the budget.

You can check prices and availability from these sites:
http://www.grandcanyonlodges.com/bri...lodge-408.html
http://www.grandcanyonlodges.com/gra...lodge-412.html

You mentioned a pool ... these GC lodges/hotels are mostly older, basic lodging with no pools. About 7 miles south of the rim in the small town of Tusayan there are several hotels and many have pools. We've often stayed at the Squire Best Western (which had the best restaurant in the area) and it has an outdoor pool ... http://www.grandcanyonsquire.com/ Also have stayed at a Tusayan Holiday Inn Express with an indoor pool (and free breakfast) ... these are newer and more expensive than Maswik or Bright Angel in the park, but good options if the park is full or if a pool is a must-have.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 08:18 PM
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Thank you for the helpful feedback. I think we'll get off at Flagstaff and rent a car from there. I agree, it is probably a much better idea to drive to GC ourselves instead of taking the Grand Canyon Railway or a shuttle.

Thanks again!
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Old May 31st, 2009, 08:39 PM
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You've just been given a lot of bad advice by people who know nothing about the area.

First, there are no car rentals in Williams. Williams is a small town 35 miles from Flagstaff. Population is less than 3k.

Flagstaff is a tiny town. Good luck getting a car rental there. It's not a metro area, it's a small city at best.

There are no hotels in Tusyan or the Grand Canyon South Rim that have pools. The closest town in Arizona with pools is Williams and even there they are scarce. Northern AZ is water poor - the average well is 2,000 feet deep and produces just 100 gallons a minute. Most towns rely on trucked water, rail transferred water or water catchment in the limited reservoirs. Williams' city well produces only 100 gpm -- the same as an average household well in any other place in the country.

Flagstaff has few car rentals. The drive to the South Rim is quite a drive.

Amtrak Junction is served only by shuttle -- operated by Grand Canyon Railway as it is about 10 miles from civilization.

Amtrak offers Grand Canyon Railway packages that include a shuttle from the Williams Junction to the Grand Canyon Railway and back. They offer cut rate discount, as does AAA.

There are no "shuttles" other than Open Road Tours (a two hour ride in a van) to the South Rim.

All of the lodges referenced above are owned by Xanterra, which also operates the Railway. Your best bet is to book a reservation with the railway with a free Amtrak transfer and also to book a room through Xanterra/Grand Canyon Railway. It's quick, easy and efficient. You won't be able to find "city" services anywhere in Northern Arizona. It's a rural place.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Well, it may be a ripoff, but my son LOVED the train ride, the Western show at the depot, the music on board, and of course, the staged robbery. It's not about getting there as fast as you can. The ride itself is part of the experience for the kids!
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Old Jun 1st, 2009, 02:07 AM
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You've just been given some bad advice by a person who claims to know a lot about the area.

The Holiday Inn Express in Tusayan has a pool, and I know several other hotels in Tusayan do too. No disputing that northern AZ is water poor, but somebody has their hotel info dead wrong.

You can rent a car in Flagstaff from National, Avis, Hertz, Budget, and Alamo.
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Old Jun 1st, 2009, 07:16 AM
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crazyjae, in their first Fodors post ever, wrote You've just been given a lot of bad advice by people who know nothing about the area.

Well, below are some facts that are simple to verify via the internet. Then people can decide for themselves who knows something about the area and who knows nothing, or at least is posting very incorrect info.

crazyjae says Flagstaff is a tiny town. Good luck getting a car rental there.

Here are the car rental companies in Flagstaff: Enterprise, Hertz, National, Alamo, Budget, Avis. Takes about 10 seconds to get this info via a Google search.

I just ran a query on Priceline and each company had a wide range of vehicles available in mid-June.

crazyjae says There are no hotels in Tusyan or the Grand Canyon South Rim that have pools. The closest town in Arizona with pools is Williams

Not true. Several hotels in Tusayan have pools. Red Feather Lodge has a heated outdoor pool. Canyon Plaza Resort has a pool and hot tub. Holiday Inn Express has an indoor pool. Squire Inn Best Western has a pool, as shown in this pic on their web site: http://www.grandcanyonsquire.com/amenities.html

These were just the first four I checked, I'm pretty sure there are others as well.

crazyjae says Flagstaff has few car rentals. The drive to the South Rim is quite a drive.

Six car rental companies, and it takes me about 90 minutes to drive to the GC entrance from Flagstaff. Mapquest says it's 79 miles and they estimate 1 hr 35 min. By comparison the train ride takes 2 hrs 15 minutes even though Williams is closer to the GC.

crazyjae says Your best bet is to book a reservation with the railway

The "two night" trip that Lear was discussing includes one train ride to the GC, then back to Williams the same day, with two nights in Williams. Cost per the web site is $225 per adult, $32 per child. In another post Lear said there are 4 adults and 3 toddlers, so $996 for their group.

The day of the train ride they leave Williams at 9:30 AM, arrive at the depot across from El Tovar at 11:45, leave GC at 3:30, arrive in Williams 5:45. So a little more than 3 1/2 hours at the canyon at the worst time of the day to actually view the canyon, and of course at the busiest and most crowded time. For almost a thousand bucks.

If he rents a vehicle in Flag and drives up and stays at the GC for a couple of nights it's much cheaper and he has the advantages of being there for sunrise and sunset, plus can make the return trip to Flagstaff out the east rim via Cameron and the Navajo reservation to see more beautiful country.

If he stays at say Maswik Lodge it will cost about $400 for 2 rooms for 2 nights. The trial dates I checked on Priceline for car rentals indicated you could get a big SUV for $173 or a big mini-van for $215 for two days, or two smaller cars for two days for $140-$150 combines. If they drive 240 miles and get 20 mpg and gas is $3/gallon then that's another $36 for gas.

So say $600-650 or thereabouts instead of $1,000 for transportation and lodging ... for a much better trip with two nights on the rim instead of two nights in Williams with no car and little to do.
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Old Jun 1st, 2009, 09:48 AM
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Plus, Lear is also heading up to Sedona for a few days.
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Old Jun 1st, 2009, 10:09 AM
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Thanks everyone! My family and I were considering a trip on the GC Train but from the sounds of it, it is very touristy! SO I think we will pass. Thanks Bill H your posts were very informative.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 11:20 PM
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Good luck finding those pools. That's all I have to say. Good luck. Yep, you can check it on the internet, doesn't mean it's going to be there... I live in town (Tusyan).. I don't think any of these people who gave external advice do. So again, good luck with the pool, or any of the advice they gave.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 11:35 PM
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Oh, and good luck getting a rental car that's worth a @hit. BillH may be able to check the internet for cars, but I'll tell you, living here, that you really must check by calling and not by searching the net. Sure, verify by net here. And find yourself assed out.

Here in NAZ, you need to check first. I needed something in Flag recently, checked the net and it was supposedly there -- I drove an hour and a half to get it -- the place was closed. Their site said they were open, they hadn't updated to say they changed their hours. I drove back the next day, a day they were supposed to be open, and they didn't have the item I needed despite their website. That's how it works here in the remote country... One of my employees used to be the daughter of owner of one of the car rental companies in town. Your best bet is to rent a U-Haul. At least you can guarantee a vehicle that way.

If I believed anything on the net, I'd be able to get many things I can't in my town. Notwithstanding, if you've ever been to Flagstaff, you'd know that it isn't all that. It isn't some metro that has everything available. It's a small town that has very few services available.

BillH doesn't live here -- I do. His knowledge is, in my book, about zero...

And, by the way -- just because MapQuest says something -- it isn't. You don't know how many people a day I see asking me about how far it is... I've seen people ask about the skywalk and I've had people call saying they are 10 miles, by GPS, to South Rim Village and while asking me to give them directions to "get here" also tell me they've just passed Jacob's Lake (over 100+ miles from the South Rim, by road).

Again, good luck with all their advice. They obviously all live here.
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Old Jun 5th, 2009, 09:55 AM
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DH and I stayed in Flagstaff last year on our way to Zion. We stayed at the Little America Inn, which has a pool. I don't consider the town to be that small. There is a small old town center, but the rest of the town is fairly spread out. I saw a few car rental agencies around town.
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Old Jun 5th, 2009, 10:34 AM
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the name seems to fit.


'nuf said.
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Old Jun 5th, 2009, 11:05 AM
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well, over on tripadvisor some random reviewers have posted pictures of the pool at the Grand Canyon Squires Inn
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationP....html#17146733

And here are some of the Grand Hotel
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationP....html#18771794

But I'm not going to believe something I can find on the internet in 3 or 4 different places. I'm going to believe someone named "CrazyJae" who must be right!

Also, I'm sure there can be a shortage of rental cars available in any given location. Especially one that is popular with tourists. I would always call first before arriving, or driving 90 minutes and expecting to find a car. That's a good idea. But to say that the 6 rental car companies listed with offices in a town never have any cars is a ridiculous statement. why do they have offices? just to thwart tourists who arrive looking for cars?
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