Grand canyon overnight without permit
 

If I can not get the permit for overnight down at GC.What is the penalty if I would spend night without permit.And what is the chance that ranger will find me?

OK - you are ignoring the advice given on your other threads and now the three of you want to do it w/o a permit??

nuts (!) . . . .

Jil,

The permit system exists for very good reasons. If you cannot understand those reasons, which I am certain have already been explained to you, and insist on violating them for selfish reasons, then you will get no further help from me!

Also, the fines are steep. The rangers will probably have no problem at all locating a person like yourself.

If you are found without a permit (and you will), you will be asked to leave immediately. If it's the middle of the night and you have to hike out for six hours to do so, that will be YOUR problem. If you refuse you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be guilty of assaulting a federal officer -- something you do NOT want on your record.

You decided to visit the Grand Canyon but failed to adequately prepare in advance. Deal with it. Either do a day hike, go somewhere else, or learn how to prepare before you go someplace.

The rangers know where all the potential camping spaces are, and have good perches up on BOTH rims to spot you. There are monetary fines, to be paid before you are allowed to leave. Afterward, you will be asked to leave the park. As others have mentioned, resisting a park ranger is a federal offense. Much more damaging to your criminal record than a traffic ticket.

I'm actually surprised you are asking such stupid questions. I had answered your posts truthfully, but now I just think you are a troll wasting our time.

The National Parks are all protected lands. With the millions of visitors in GC alone, there could be severe damage to plants and trails, erosion, trash dispersed, and overall degredation of this national treasure if there were no rules on hiking,camping, and access. There are limits for a reason. The land is very fragile and cannot support unregulated camping, fouling of areas with feces and urine, boots trampling plants, etc. Just don't even think about it.

What is the penalty for stayng overnight there?

Beheading, followed by your head displayed on a stake at the nearest campsite.

I just finished reading your various posts on this hiking "expedition". Amazing -- just amazing. Thanks for reminding us why they have rules and regulations.

&quot;<i>What is the penalty for stayng overnight there?</i>&quot; Obviously you either didn't read the above messages -- or you are too dumb/dense to be let out alone w/o a keeper. . . . .

The penalty was explained to you already.

IF you manage to get all the way down without being checked and turned back by a ranger earlier, here is the penalty:

There is a fine (I believe up to $250 per person), AND you are required to leave and hike back up right then. You cannot accept the fine and stay. If you were to refuse to leave, you would be charged with a federal crime, and required to appear in federal court in Arizona.

Rangers check people on the trails - that's why most people just attach their permit to their backpack.

As best as I can tell, an overnight without a permit is a Class B misdemeanor. I believe NoraS is correct - if you leave immediately the fine is relatively small, but if you refuse to leave or leave but then hide somewhere else overnight, you would have to go to court and risk up to $5000 in fines or 6 months in jail. I'd guess you'd probably be banned for a period of time from backpacking in the Grand Canyon.

Honestly, from all of the questions you've asked on other threads I don't think you're at all prepared for this hike, with or without a permit. You don't seem to understand hiking in a desert climate, or hiking anywhere other than the Alps for that matter. Hopefully someone will get some good advice on hiking the Grand Canyon from all of your threads, even if you don't.

There is a campground at the rim that takes reservastions, and those travelers arriving without cars. The fees are modest.

Otherwise, stop asking how to break the law.

$10,000

Traveling to the GC to 'camp' - $1,000

Taking time off from work to do it - $1,000

Buying camping equipment - $1,000

Being stupid enough to not spend $15-$50 on a permit which is REQUIRED - Priceless.

&quot;And what is the chance that ranger will find me?&quot;

This is an easy one. Hide under a bridge and you'll be fine. Trolls are often difficult to spot, even by experienced rangers.

By the way, is the 6 year old still going to be hiking with you? Are all 6 of you hiking together -- if so, you're going to be pretty easy to spot.

Microdol i would like to spend even $100 or more on a permit.Rangers will not pick up the phone.I already applyed for permit twice and i still don't have one.Since I am already spending $4000 to get to GC,I would realy appreciate if you let me know how to get the permit to get down. So I don't look like a troll.

&gt; I would realy appreciate if you let me know
&gt; how to get the permit

Here's the only URL you need; anything more is superfluous:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...try-permit.htm

You mail in your permit request, along with 30,000 other such requests. You can not request a permit over the phone or online. Only 13,000 of these requests are granted;
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...ght-hiking.htm
which means 17,000 are denied. If you've tried twice and failed, that's just tough luck. You can either continue to try by mail, or show up at 8am at the Backcountry Office and hope for an opening. No other options are available.

&gt; Rangers will not pick up the phone.

You need to know this about the backcountry phone number:

Backcountry Information Center staff answer information telephone inquiries at 928-638-7875 between 1 p.m. and 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, except on federal holidays. This telephone number is for INFORMATION ONLY [my emphasis].

Thus, please don't waste the Rangers' valuable time to ask something you already have the answer to. You apply for a backcountry camping permit by mail or at the office. Odds are you will not get one. If you don't; you either do a day hike, camp outside the Canyon, or plan better next time.

One thing the Grand Canyon website stresses is to not make any travel plans UNTIL all permits have been obtained. As there are so few given, it doesn't make sense to lock in flights, hotels, etc. only to not be awarded a permit and be out all that money. Perhaps you need to do your research BEFORE you book your flights, etc. next time. It will save you lots of trouble.

Good luck. Sounds like you are going to need it.

Taitai

jilkovina, I have camped overnight at the bottom of the Grand Canyon back when I was in college and yes, the rangers will know you are there and you will get fined.

It is very closely controlled and patrolled.

It would be impossible to do this.

The park rangers don't dick around.