Good-bye Tampa, hello San Antonio!
 

Looks like we are moving, and after the initial shock wore off, (omg, new hairdressers, new friends, new doctors, new dentists..lol...see which one of those I listed first), I'm really excited. We've lived in TX before and absolutely love the Hill Country.

My DH will be working downtown, the Hyatt on Riverwalk, and after 11 years living in, we are returning to the housing market, which I'm really excited about.

Our initial big dilemma will be, old or new...Alamo Heights, so convenient to downtown, but older homes and the accompanying lack of some of the amenities we've grown to love, or out to the northern suburbs. DH always leaves for work early...by 7 AM, and will never be returning before 7 PM so hopefully he will miss the worst of rush hour.

For those who know the city, if you have to commute from the north, which is better, I-10 or 281. We've seen some gorgeous houses on realtor.com north of a loop 60...which is not on my Atlas. Is 60 the same as 1604? Houses there are about 20 miles from downtown, which is the same distance he traveled when we lived in Plano and he commuted to downtown Dallas. Doable, although not ideal.

I welcome any and all suggestions for good areas, and advice about commuting. In Dallas if you were in a hilly area you needed to worry about cracking foundations. Is that true in SA as well? Other issues we should be aware of?

I've heard references to redevelopment downtown but am not seeing anything on realtor.com. What is happening there? All condos? I'm not adverse to condos. With our kids gone we no longer need a big house. I'd rather spend the money on a smaller house but one that has a super quality interior. But then I look at the homes further north with the fabulous views and wooded yards.....

Any helpful hints, tips, advice, gladly accepted! Thanks

Lawsy OO! How fun!

I've not spent any time in San Antonio but my dear dear friend's dad is or was the CEO of the Chamber of Commerce in San Antonio. I'll give him a call and get the skinny!

Congrats to Mr. OO on the promotion!

OO, say it ain't so!!! :`(Tampa Bay will not be the same without you!

Best wishes to you and "popeye"! San Antonio will be a better town with you guys in it, that's for sure. What will you do with your sailboat?

OO, Ohmigosh! Wow! And I thought maybe you'd be headed to Clwr. Guess you have to go where the wind blows. But what a beautiful place, San Antonio. My sister was married there in the huge old Catholic church downtown near the river, ten years ago. We all stayed in that old convent on the river that had been converted to a hotel. That's not the Hyatt, or is it?

Wow. We will be thinking about you and your goofy palmtreehurricane photos next year during "the season" !!! And you will be thinking that you're glad you're in San Antonio!

OO, say it ain't so? We Floridians will miss you! But you still will be OO, yes? I HEAR you about new doctors, hairdressers(YIKES) etc!!!! I am going through that right now! Just found a good manicure place....this is slow going and a pain IMO. I am happy for you and your DH :-), Judy

Welcome back, O!
You may want to look in the Alamo Heights area, not necessarily in AH proper but the adjoining neighborhoods. There seems to be an emerging trend of folks renovating existing homes - often the typical 50s and 60s ranch houses - to add in some of the amenities you mention. We did just that and love it. Prices are reasonable enough that it makes economic sense, and the big advantage is being close to downtown and avoiding traffic. Also, demographics support the sort of retail operations that make life enjoyable. When I moved back to SA in 1999 I was appalled at what had become of my "sleepy little town", and it is worse very day, especially in the overdeveloped areas around loop 1604 and along IH-10 west. IH-10 north of the medical center used to be considered close to a daytrip; now it is developed pretty much all the way to Boerne. Unfortunately, much of that development is of the clear cut variety where a developer just removes all the trees, then later plants a few saplings in a densley built neighborhood. Next, of course, come the big box stores, creating even worse traffic congestion. There is something of a local furor going on over this at the moment.
In terms of downtown, the trend is -as in so many places - toward loft spaces, especially high-end. There are some really nice looking places, though prices that are way above the rest of the SA market. One issue here is the lack of amenities such as grocery stores in the downtown area. You don't have to drive forever to shop, but there is no place to run out for a quart of milk.
Another thing you might consider is the King William and Southown area. KW was orignally an enclave of German merchants in the 1800's, and there are some pretty impressive mini- and not so mini-mansions and historic structures. As you probably recall, the conservation/preservation ethic is very strong here.
Feel free to email me offline [email protected]

Welcome back to Texas, OO. I'll have to agree with Seamus. In Alamo Heights, Terrell Hills, Olmos Park you can find everything you need (in charming neighborhoods) without driving all over town. (10-15 minutes from the airport or an $8.00 cabfare.) And it's close enough to downtown to miss the traffic at 7/7.

I don't know which drive is worse - 281 or I-10. I just looked at a traffic map and I-10 from 1604 to downtown shows mostly 150-200k Annual Average Daily Traffic in 2000. 281 between 1604 and downtown shows 100-150k with a few portions more and less. The maps etc are at http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/sa_traffic.htm

I don't know what Loop 60 is. There are 2 loops in San Antonio, 410 and 1604.

Good luck finding a new home and moving!

<i><font color="blue"> Weeping ~ weeping~ </font></i>
Just when I was complaining about Tampa being too far to drive for frequent visits, you go to San Antonio Texas!!

I am happy for you, you will buy a nice new home of your own, your children will see you more often, babies will have grandma and grandpa nearby, but your Florida pals are gonna miss you :(

Congrats OO. Good luck with new horizons ((R))

Thank you guys, my FL friends. Your notes were so nice. You know, it's a bittersweet move. We've loved it here; we have put down deep roots making the move even harder. It'd almost be better to move every year, then it wouldn't be so tough saying good-bye. I hate them and do them very poorly! Sniff sniff. We had dinner Friday night with the head off CVB and his wife, who are friends as well, and told them then. He asked our waiter if he had a sharp knife. LOL :D But...this is Hyatt's philosophy and with the industry healthy once again, they are really into it. &quot;If you've been in your hotel for 4 years you can expect to be moved&quot; I knew it was coming and we'd already turned down one. That SA was what was offered next was wonderful, because we weren't sure how many &quot;No's&quot; we had! It's sort of going home again we were there so long the first time.

Joan, we are keeping the boat here for the time being. That'll serve as our condo for trips back, and yippee, I can even fly SW between Texas and Tampa now, living in SA! There's a lake just north of SA though that's deep enough for that size boat so it may move too eventually. We'll see. Logistics of that are too much to contemplate at the moment!

And TG, we'd have loved to have gotten CWB but couldn't stall them that long. The Hyatt wasn't where you all stayed...not sure what that is, but it's an interesting concept...convent to hotel. I imagine a few nuns rolled over in their graves. I laughed again thinking back to your comment on my wind whipped palm...looking like a bad perm. lol I will definitely not miss hurricane season! Hallelujah, we can travel again in the summer. You can bet though, I'll still track each one until it's safely past Tampa.

GT...that's kind....the more info I can get before getting there the better. I want to avoid two moves if possible...out of here, then into storage because we haven't been able to decide on anything.

Judy...Yes...that's the hardest part of a move. Because we kept our Dallas house for a while after moving, leasing it, I had to go back periodically and timed as many of my haircuts as possible with my trips back &quot;home&quot;, but that only prolonged the agony of digging in and finding someone else. Good luck. Yes I will still be OO, though mostly a boatless OO and Popeye.

Seamus--I was so happy to see your response! Thanks so much, and I'll take you up on the email offer. There have been some fantastic renovations in AH. The virtual tours on realtor.com have been quite a help. One seemed so perfect until it came to the master bedroom...and they showed a little bi-fold door behind which we know was the only closet. :( I could search AH listings because I had their zip code (and now have heard about 09er's :) ). What are the names of the other neighborhoods adjacent to AH so I can find zip codes to plug into realtor.com?

We are so familiar with clearcut developments from Plano and absolutely do not want anything like that. After Plano, one of my husbands top priorities was to have a house where he isn't looking at someone else's rooftop, houses piled on top of each other...huge homes on small lots. There are a few of homes with long vistas from high on a hill, but all are way north, and these traffic descriptions are frightening.

I looked a little in King William...I remember that from trips to SA and it's being beautiful, but what I was seeing was close to a million! And there wasn't much at that.

Realtor.com is giving drive times of 25 minutes from an area in the northwest quadrant of 1604 and 281, and again, 1604 and 10. Outside of rush hour, is that realistic?

No doubt about it, AH and vicinity would be best if we could find something. What about safety downtown?

Also...I'm happy to be going back to a little more winter than what we have here, but what is summer like (keeping in mind that we live in FL now and I'll be the first to say...I hate our summers!) I hear so much about how terrible Houston is, but don't hear much about SA, and if I've been there in the summer, I can't remember.

I'm excited about the hiking I've seen in the area. Came across a website with a list of 24 hikes in varied terrain...brought big smiles to my face. Maybe that can become my exercise, rather than running.

Which reminds me...does any health club in the area stand out as being much better than the others?

So many questions...and probably not too much time. DH goes the 2nd for an owners meeting then it's a matter of how long can we stall the falling dominoes as GM after GM goes into their new property.

There were replies I missed as I wrote...and wrote...and wrote. Sorry that was so long winded.

Thanks for that link and added comments sundowner, confirming what Seamus has said and what I seem to hear over and over. I love the charm of old if we could find it...or even new in the older areas. I saw a listing of a condo on Kampmann and another on Terrell Rd that might give us the best of both worlds. Close in but new construction. I don't know that I have the intestinal fortitude for a renovation of my own--unless your contractors are a whole lot better than what we've found here!

Thanks mclaurie and Scarlett too. You know, being near at least one of our kids now makes this even more palatable. He's a 5 hour drive off, but when it's been a 3 hour plane trip for the past 11 years, a 5 hour drive sounds like heaven, and even more so now with the baby! Very big smile here. I am going to miss my FL pals too...but....weee'lllll be baaaack!

Okay OO, this is what I got from him (and he said he would be glad to refer you and Mr. OO to his parents who are WONDERFUL people).

Alamo Heights is one of the very nicest if not the nicest area of San Antonio.

Also look at Elm Creek. It is a very nice gated community.

Traffic will be the same on both I-10 and 281.

Hmm, so if the Yankee and I decide to leave Florida, San Antonio is sounding better and better :D

OO -
Yes there is the 09-er lore, and as with most lore there is agrain of truth! Still, it is a great place to live, and not overrun with ditzy bowheads and Davy Crockett wannabes.
In terms of ZIP codes to search on realtor.com, those that abut 09 can be good. Try 78212 for the Monte Vista historical area or Olmos Park. 78213 includes Castle Hills, another city within a city that at one time was rather upscale and still offers some nice homes on larger lots. If the Kampmann property is in your price range you should have no problem finding a place.
You asked about summers - not as nasty as Houston. We can have hot days and certainly have humidity that can get high at times, but not all the time and not as bad as Houston. This past summer was rather mild; last year we had a run of about a week with temps near 100. AC is everywhere, though, so life goes on. Winter looks like winter everywhere in terms of bare deciduous trees, but it rarely gets truly freezing other than the occasional blue norther than will drop temps overnight, and that usually lasts only a day or two if it does occur. You just haul in patio plants that might not take it well, throw a blanket over the ones too big to haul in, and rely on the regenerative powers of nature for the rest. We have used our (unheated) outdoor pool as early as late March and as late as October.
You asked about health clubs - there are the ubiquitous Bally's, Gold's, 24 Hour, etc., and there is a nice private club called the Concord that is on the edge of if not in 09.
In terms of renovating - having gone through a MAJOR one, it can take its toll. We lived in the house through it, and if I had it to do again that would be different. But, as a friend observed, it's rather like childbirth in that when you see and live with the finished product the memories of the pain recede. And it is a way to get the advantages of location and ambience of a good neighborhood, plus appreciation rates (not to scare you with thoughts of another move in the future!) tend to be much higher than in other newly developed/developing areas.
I do admit a bias in favor of SA - I've left twice and come back twice, and swear that I am not leaving again until I can afford the Paris penthouse.

OO, you might try these for your home search
http://www.kuperrealty.com/ or http://www.phyllisbrowning.com/
These are the signs I see most.

And Miz Scahlett, do remember, deah, that in these parts the Yankee will ALWAYS be a Yankee, though after a sufficeint period of residence would qualify for the title of damn yankee.
Yankee = born above MD line, visits and says, &quot;what a beautiful place, I shall go back home and tell everyone all about it&quot;
Damn Yankee = born above MD line, visits and says, &quot;what a beautiful place, I shall stay here.&quot;

What news, OO. I think we put off our meeting in either Tampa or in Naples too long.

Guess we'll just have to make a trip to San Antonio now. It keeps coming up on my &quot;next year maybe&quot; list time and time again, but it's been years since we've been there.

And sadly my most vivid memory of San Antonio is a very drunk, very over the hill Robert Goulet attempting to sing The Star Spangled Banner at the big New Year's Eve bash at the Alamo. He didn't even know the first line of words nor the tune, and it went downhill from there.

Patrick, I will see your Robert Goulet and raise you one Tab Hunter as grand marshal of the year's premiere public event, the Fiesta Battle of the Flowers parade - the stuff of memories, I tell you!

OO, it seems you will be a nexus, occasioning many Fodorites to consider a visit to SA. Once you get settled let's plan a GTG!

Seamus, you may have upped the ante there, but did Tab Hunter attempt to sing? I think I may still hold the trump card!

Well, this is good news for me, OO! Both DH and I have family that live in the San Antonio/Bandera area and we try to make it up that way when we are in Houston, so we'll have to get together!

Congrats to you and DH both on the job and the move. I think that you are really going to like San Antonio. :)

Tab Hunter...I used to drool over his pictures in my high school days...which gives you some idea which age group we're in! He was a handsome devil in those days...but then, that was many years ago! I imagine he was happy to be asked to do the parade now.

Got a giggle out of your use of the term Bowhead, Seamus. I haven't heard that since we lived in Dallas. There was a bowhead zip code there too and I won't say any more on that--except that too was a city within a city! ;)

Count on a get together, definitely--anyone in SA and Statia too, and Scarlett and Patrick, come on over. I really think I'm going to like SA too, Statia. Every Texan would love a place in the Hill Country and I'm tickled that if we have to leave here, that at least we are leaving for a place I've always loved and thought I could enjoy living in! By the way Seamus...I'm afraid that even after nearly two decades in Dallas, I still qualify as one of those Damn Yankees. A New Englander even, the damnedest of the damned. I don't talk funny anymore though...lost that long long ago.

Thanks for the additional zip codes Seamus and for the realtor urls sundowner. I'm glad to have a couple of the big names for listings. Have moved enough to know not to let my fingers do the walking when choosing a realtor, and that one that's good in one part of the city isn't necessarily good in another.

I've already logged many many hours on realtor.com and am finding housing to be very affordable compared to Tampa. To tell on myself, I'd seen a very interesting listing on a street called Far Niente. I could only see the exterior, but it was beautiful and I believe it was one that listed a view as one of the features. Anyway, I was thinking the name of the street rang a bell...did I already know someone living there? When I mentioned it to my DH, he gently reminded me it's the name of a wine we often drink. :) I just drink and enjoy it...he be the picker. LOL I'm going back now to look at the new zip codes and the Elm Creek area too, GT--thanks.

Haven't heard of 24 Hours, but if it's like Ballys or Golds...I'm hoping to find something different. The club I belong to here may be like Concord--it serves primarily a small sort of historic section of Tampa and is not full of gymheads...the gym equivalent of bowheads (and the predominant species found in both Ballys and Golds in the areas we've lived.) :)

As for that penthouse Seamus...maybe we can pool our collective resources and get one together. You get it half the year, we get it the other half. We were actually looking when we were there at Christmas...just at listings in the windows, and just out of curiosity, but it did get me thinking about it. The prices weren't terrible either...were it not for the awful $/euro ratio...and the fact that the mortgage would unfortunately have to be paid in euro. No harm in the dream though. I don't know if I already mentioned this, but I checked 3 airfares from San Antonio within hours of hearing about the move. 1. SA to Dallas 2. SA to Phoenix (daughter) and 3. SA to Paris...and I'm not sure now in which order they were checked. :D

Worse than that, Patrick - he tried to act. Guess it's a draw...

Uh-oh, I think you just won!

DARN. Hit that button too soon. What I meant to say was, &quot;at least Robert Goulet could sing at one time. Tab Hunter never could act.&quot;

Patrick...sad but true. In high school though, that didn't make any difference.

I just found an interesting url while looking for Elm Creek's zip code. https://www.melissadata.com/ssl/homesales.asp Plug in any zip code and it will give you the average purchase price of homes, and number of homes sold within the zip code, month by month. What did we do before the internet!!

Hey, Patrick - the reason Robert Goulet couldn't sing the Star Spangled Banner is because he's Canadian. We Canadians find that song very, very complicated. Especially when we are drunk out of our so-called minds. :)

Meeshare, do you think we US citizens find that song uncomplicated? But actually drunk might help. It didn't in his case however.

Amazing ... tampa's loss, sa's gain! When do you depart, and has the Woodys crew planned a going-away popper party for you? The west coast claims some, the Gulf a few more. Our plans change. Safe sailing and may the breezes treat you kindly along life's course.

OO -
We were in Paris in December, too (the week prior to Christmas) and also spent time looking at the postings in the real estate offices! Saw a few things that might have been feasible a year or two ago, but with the exchange rate where it is now...gulp.
BTW Far Niente is in an area outside 1604 (the &quot;outer loop&quot;) and I have been out there. It is relatively new development, mostly McMansions but some are pretty nice, though I still cannot fathom why anone would spend that much money and be so close to their neighbor. It is also, I think, in an area with notoriously high school taxes. As you probably know there is no state income tax in Texas, but we have city and county plus school, community college, hospital and utility districts.
The realtors recommended above - Phyllis Browning and Kuper - pretty much handle the &quot;better&quot; properties. You may also want to search at www.sabor.com
Don't worry about being a damn yankee- they've let me stay here these many years, and now there is even a place to get a real cheese steak. And I believe I have an inkling as to the Dallas area Bowhead HQ... :-)

Hi OO,

I am writing to you from Waikiki where it is pouring rain at the moment. We've lived in SA going on 16 years this summer. Looks as though you've already been given enough good info to get you going. You asked about safety--we have friends who have lived in King William and Alamo Heights for years without trouble. Another area close to AH you may want to consider is Monte Vista. A good friend of mine is a realtor with Kuper Realty--definitly one of the best agencies in town. Good luck in your search and best wishes to you in your new venture!
Aloha, AnnMarie :-)

Poor you dcespedes....it's bright and sunny in FL today (but only about 60 degrees so you are in the right place!) Lucky you, even in the rain. There is plenty of agreement here as to neighborhoods to look at and we'll just have to get there and see what it's all about.

Looking on realtor.com, most of the things in our price range that have attracted us are in the 78258 zip code, (Far Niente too Seamus). Of course they can crop those pictures nicely to cut out all the house next door, so I'm not seeing houses on top of each other, either! Several have mountain/hill views listed as features which is really appealing...lol...until a street goes in behind you!

Last night we e'd a realtor about property taxes on one house out there and her reply sat me back a bit. Whoa. Having had a live-in situation for the past 12 years, it came as somewhat of a rude awakening! Pop goes the happy little bubble! That realtor was with Phyllis Browning by the way. I approached the thought of writing her with some trepidation, fearing she'd sense a realtor-less house hunter wandering unprotected and swoop in, talons extended, but her reply was to the point and with no further advances, I'm happy to say. (I hate sales people waiting on me in stores and would go realtor-less if there were any way possible!)

I've been quite surprised by one aspect of homes in that zip...many of them have electric heat...and for someone who has lived in MA, that is a frightening thought! I was surprised by the number--could the gas lines not be out there? Oh...current GM lives out there, Canyon Springs, has a home which backs up to a fairway of a golf club. His commute leaving at 7 AM is 30 min, about the same going home, so the drive times are close to what we've gotten through realtor.com.

Anyway. the search goes on, but looking at those tax numbers, we need to put pencil to paper. It's odd that none of the listings give those figures. I'll have to make inquiries about the 09 zip code for comparison--might make a difference.

To those who have been patient with relocation questions on a travel forum...than you so much..I really appreciate it!

OO, you're finding out one of the reasons people are flocking to Florida. We complain about our real estate taxes until we compare them to almost anywhere else in the country.

By the way, we just made it to 70 today in Naples. But sure chilly this morning!

OO, under Save Our Homes, if you homestead you pay real estate taxes based on the cost when you bought your home, or when Save Our Homes went into effect. Then it is re-assessed every five years or so but is only allowed to rise a small percentage. That's to save us from real estate speculators. It is a great deal.

We have homestead exemptions in SA and here is how it works - you declare a place to be your homestead (usually a form at closing) and you receive a deduction from the appraised value for tax purposes. The exact amount varies with the taxing authority - though you receive only one tax bill, it includes the taxes for all the tax districts. The actual amount you owe is computed by taking the tax value, subtracting any deduction and multiplying by the tax rate. The county recently hired a new assessment honcho and he is making some waves with what is seen as aggressive reassessments. Reassessment is generally done every few years, whenever a home is sold or a major renovation is done (they know from the building permit.) There is a limit as to the annual percentage increase with routine reassessmenet, but these sale or major renovation trump that.
OO, I share your concern about electric heat. You are corrrect that very often it is an issue of no gas service in the area, often because the developer did not want to incur the expense. In addition to the higher cost of electric heat, and the common perception that &quot;somehow electric heat is just not as warm&quot;, you also won't be able to have a gas stove (important to the foodie in me.)
The issue of great views until the next developer starts working is quite real, especially with the density that is common these days. Also, the way some of the lots are divided, you wind up with a neighbor looking down into your back yard. There really is no way to reliably tell this from photos, and I'd encourage you to let any realtor you work with about this requirement up front so you don't waste time looking.
And you most certainly can do it without a realtor, but what usually happens is that you wind up doing a lot more work and the listing agent gets the entire comission instead of having to split with a selling agent. Not sure that it changes the sales price very much. You can also hire a buyers' agent, someone who represents your interest in any sale. Most folks don't realize that unless you have a buyers' agent agreement, both agents in a sale are legally obligated to represent the interests of the seller.