from DC to NYC?
 

My daughter and I would like to take a two-day trip to New York City the week after Christmas. We will probably be using Mariott points and will stay at a Mariott downtown.

We are unsure as to the best way to get there, however. Should we take the Amtrak? Seems rather pricey at around $200 round-trip per person. Or should we drive since we will have a place to park (the hotel) -- or WILL we have a place to park? After reading some of the posts here, I have learned that not all hotels have parking.

I'm a a tad bit uneasy about this trip since neither of us have been to NYC before, but daughter sees to think we ought to go for it since we both will have that week off and we now live so close to NYC (between Bmore and D.C.)

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Vicki

Yikes, those Amtrak prices are just crazy! It would definitely be cheaper to drive and park, even if you have to use public parking garages other than something your hotel would offer.

You can take the bus. There are cheaper "Chinatown buses" from DC, or you can take Greyhound from Silver Spring. $37 each way per person.

Driving into New York city means parking (at least ~$25 per day, no in-and-out, depending where you're staying; hotel parking generally cost more), tolls for MD, DE, Delaware Memorial Bridge (one-way), NJTP and the tunnel/bridge into NYC. Not insignificant. 400-miles roundtrip also means ~$50 of gas.

Still cheaper than AMTRAK, I guess.

Have you checked airfares, esp. from BWI? You must, must figure in parking charges and availibility in NYC--check with your hotel ASAP. you might find that with the price of gas and parking, flying beats driving and Amtrak.

May I ask why you're uneasy about the trip? Maybe someone here can allay your fears!

vicki,

Welcome to the NEW AMTRAK. AMTRAK has a brand new pricing policy of increasing their fares during the most popular times (like the airlines).

Unfortunatly, the week after Christmas is about their most popular travel time and DC to NYC is their most popular route.

That said, you can't beat AMTRAK for a stress free, convenient trip. It's worth the extra $$, IMO. My next choice would be a Greyhound bus. I have driven to NYC many, many, times and would only sggest it if you are comfortable driving in such an environment. Have you driven in Rome or London, for example?

Is it just the transportation that you are uneasy about? The only things that worries me are the prices.

I assume you made hotel reservations long ago? If not make some RIGHT NOW!

Start with the hotels that have been vetted by the good people here at Fodor's:
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgr...ur_section=lod

When we lived in the MD suburbs of DC, I often went up to NYC for business and also to visit our daughter who lives there. I've flown, driven and taken the train. The advantages of Amtrak are that your arrive downtown. (It's also nice to be able to read and watch the scenery outside, especially if it is raining or snowing!) If you get a cheap airline flight, you have to deal with 1) parking at your home airport 2) getting into town from the airport -- estimate about $40 and 3) having to do the same return to fly home again.

Driving really isn't too bad. It's an easy straight shot up 95...although the first time you drive into the city is a bit unnerving. But it's pretty simple once you are there. Know where you are going and use a map that indicates which streets/avenues are one way. Frankly we didn't start driving until the last couple of years, although on our last trip I was going up for business on Amtrak anyway and so we just bought my DH a train ticket. (We always left/returned to BWI's Amtrak station which has great parking. ) Make sure whichever Marriott you are staying at has parking. Expect to pay between $20-40 per 24hr day.

If your daughter is a student you can probably get a discounted Amtrak ticket for her. She needs to sign up for some sort of membership, but I believe it is good for a year.

Have fun! It is a terrific mother/daughter trip. I took my daughter along on a business trip to when she was in high school. We had a great time, a couple of the younger folks in my NY office took us out to lunch and she got a real sense of what living and working in NYC was like (although the second day we were there was a Saturday which we spent SHOPPING and had a blast.) From that point she said she that after she graduated from college, she was going to work in NYC.

Over the years her friends teased her about that, but -- you guessed it -- she did just that!

Have a great trip!

If your daughter is a junior or senior in high school, you can get a form signed by her guidance counselor, good for a buy-one-get-one-free Amtrak ticket:

http://www.campusvisit.com/amtrak/

(When we used this, they didn't even ask for/look at the form.)

With those prices, I would be tempted to drive up 95, get off in NJ at Route 1 and take the NJ Transit train from Princeton Junction (plentiful, cheap, safe parking.) The roundtrip ticket is approx. $18, and the train takes about 1-1/4 hour. Let me know if you want more info.

I prefer flying! you should be able to get there for less than the train.

Thanks so much for your responses. My daughter and son-in-law have also heard about the Chinatown buses, so I guess I need to find out more about them.

Why am I uneasy about making the trip? Well, I am an easily-confused, easily-overwhelmed 52-year-old woman who actually has very limited travel experience. I also have a fairly significant hearing impairment which causes all kinds of communication problems.

Sometimes, for a lot of different reasons, it is just easier to stay at home and not do anything different.

Vicki

Search the boards for past discussions of the Chinatown buses. Cheap and fast, if you don't need a lot of service and are willing to take some risk about delays (though that can also be said of all the other options). Advantage for those of us with hearing problems: The Chinatown staff are used to communicating with lots of gestures rather than words! Consider the Chinatown Bus ride to be part of the adventure.

The more you travel, the less intimidating it is. After your first trip to NYC, you'll be looking forward to the next one.

In response to Suki's post, parking at Princeton Jct. is only plentiful on weekends. During the week it's next to impossible to get a spot. Also, you can only park there for 24 hours. Not a good option.

Greyhound often matches the prices of the Chinatown buses ... from my MARC train leaving DC's Union Station I saw a large banner at Greyhound promoting their $20 fares.

Another parking area for NJT is "Metropark" -- I think the actual city is something like Iselyn, NJ -- large parking garage with bus & rail service, just off GSPW.

I would take whatever transportation you'll find least stressful. Here's some info on the Chinatown buses

http://www.chinatown-bus.com/chinatown-bus-reviews.htm

In addition to those and Greyhound there's also limoliner.com

Here's a website that outlines all the options

http://www.independenttraveler.com/r...mp;category=20

As to hotel, there are a number of Marriotts. The 2 big ones are the M Marquis in Times Square and the M. Financial Center which is all the way downtown near Wall St. One confusing issue for NYC is that "downtown" is not as central as it sounds in other cities. That location will be very quiet on weekends and is more likely to have decent parking than Times Square but won't be as centrally located. There are also 3 Courtyard by Marriotts that mostly get good reviews on tripadvisor.

You'll have a great time but I also urge you to make your hotel reservations ASAP.

Just to clarify: it is true that I have never parked at Princeton Junction on a weekday so I'm sure that what Barry says is true. However, I have parked there from Saturday morning until Monday evening so you must be able to park for more than 24 hours on a weekend.

Thanks for all your kind replies. My husband got the reservations for us -- we are staying at the Mariott Marquis in Times Square (Wednesday and Thursday nights after Christmas).

I can't believe we are doing this.

I have an acquaintance who lives close to NYC, in Connecticut.... I'm wondering if I could drive to her house and park there and ride the train into the city and then return there and pick up the car when we leave. She's really just an acquaintance, though.

Vicki

Hi Vicki,
As a native Richmonder who now lives in NYC, I can totally sympathize with your travel dilemmas. I have done them all though--- so let me see how I can help.
Chinatown buses: To be honest, I would avoid. I have personally taken Apex Bus (www.apexbus.com). It doesn't take too long, but it adds some stress. You would definitely want someone to drop you off at the bus (it doesn't leave from a station). The bus drops you off in Chinatown (imagine that) in New York, which is a hike from Times Square. Depending on the time of day, hailing a cab here might be difficult. It's a confusing part of town if you've never been to New York. It is cheap though--- $35 roundtrip. You can buy tickets in advance on-line.
flying--- Dulles to Newark seems to have a large number of cheap options. Do not rule out Newark-- it is almost easier to get into New York from this airport. There are several car services that will take you directly into the city for $40 or you could just take the train (this isn't hard) into Penn Station, which is ten blocks south of your hotel... Pricing on travelocity.. it looks like you could leave Dulles at 1pm and land in Newark at 2pm for $141 a person.
Train- It's expensive and often late. Skip it unless you really like trains (like my mom). She came up recently on amtrak (took just over 7 hours!) and paid about $200 round trip.
Car- Driving would be the cheapest by far. Tolls are pricier than expected, but you shouldn't spend more than $50 each way (including gas). Parking at your hotel (the Marquis) is $45 a day. That's not a horrible rate by new york standards, though there are cheaper rates. You could also look into parking in Jersey (the metropark suggestion isn't a bad one), but if you're only here for 48 hours, you won't want to waste time schlepping around. Whatever you do, if you do drive to new york---- leave your car in the garage the entire trip. New York newbies (and most everyone else) shouldn't bother to drive. You'll miss the best bits being in the car.

A couple of the "chinatown" buses also stop midtown, near Penn Station; IIRC, these include Washington Deluxe, Vamoose, and Dragon Coach.

Suki,
I'm not sure it's permitted to park all weekend at Pr. Jct., but I guess you got away with it. Did you pay $3.00 for the token, then punch in your number as if you were just day-parking?

Barry, I've done this on several occasions. I just buy 2 or 3 tokens, and put them in the machine. I've never seen any signs prohibiting parking for longer than 24 hours, and the machine accepts multiple tokens.

Vicki--where in Connecticut is your friend? I do this trip often and getting to CT has become a huge traffic hassle, but if it is close in that might make sense. We drove from D.C. to NYC on the day after Christmas last year and it was great--drove straight to the hotel, they parked it and we never saw it until we left two days later. We would normally take the train but Amtrak is (as you know) so pricey during the holidays.

Mary

If you are anxious and not a frequent traveller, avoid the Chinatown buses. What you save in money is eaten up in anxiety and confusion. I only reccomend them for adventurous back packers and people who live in DC and NYC who have alternatives and options.

Amtrak really is your best bet. Look for their discount area, where they often have companion fares free. Also, sometimes if you adjust your trip by a few hours, the prices become cheaper (Friday before noon and Sunday before noon).

Suki,
I did a Google search and found the web site of the W. Windsor Parking Authority. In one spot they say $3 token for 24 hours, then later they say up to a maximum of 14 days. So, you're absolutely right, and I appreciate the correction. I've never needed to park overnite, but it could come in handy for a short trip via EWR.

It also said don't expect to get a spot after 6:30 AM weekdays and the waiting list for permit parking is 4 years!

I have just about decided we're going to take the Amtrak. Several of you suggested that whatever money I save by taking the Chinatown bus would be eaten up in anxiety, so maybe this time we should pay the extra and ride the train.

But, I am confused about something (already). The train station in Baltimore is Penn Station AND the train station in New York is Penn Station? And what is the train station in Washington called? Penn Station?

Will we be able to walk to our hotel (Mariott Marquis Times Square) from Penn Station or will we need to get a cab?

And, to show again, how clueless I am, what exactly is located in Times Square? We are interested in shopping, and my daughter wants to go to the Today Show studio, although I have reminded her that Matt and Katie usually take off the week between Christmas and New Years.

I think this trip is going to cost us much more than we expected, especially since I noted on another post that $20-25 entrees are considered "low" in NYC.

Oh -- and where is The Strand bookstore located? I have often heard about it and would like to see it.

Thanks a bunch -- ya'll are helping me out sooo much!

Vicki

The train station in Washington is called Union Station, as it was used by more than one mainline passenger trains. In NYC, Penn Station was built and run by the Pennsylvania Railroad (though the original above-ground building had been torn down). It's between 31st and 33rd Street.

Stations for Pennsylvania Railroad were all called Penn Stations. The one is Newark is Penn Station. In New York, there's also Grand Central Station, which was built and operated by Grand Central Railroad, a competitor of Penn. Now, it's the terminus for commuter trains to the North and Northeast.

Time Square is not really a square. It's like a very long intersection of Broadway and 7th Ave, and is from about 42th to 48th street. The Marriott Marquis is between 45th and 46th, right in the middle of that large intersection.

If you don't have much luggage, it's walkable, as it's about 13 short blocks, plus from 8th Ave to 7th Ave. But a taxi will be much easier.

Now that we've introduced the concept of using blocks as a measure of distance, here's the New York basics: The streets north of about Greenwich Village are laid out in a grid of numbered streets that go east/west, and avenues that go North/South; several of hte Avenues have alternative names for all or part of their length (8th Ave. becomes Central Park West, north of 59th St; 6th is known as Avenue of the Americas).

The Streets are pretty uniformly 20 per mile, so north/south distances are easy to estimate in thes "short blocks;" the Avenues aren't spaced as evenly, but are farther apart.

Now is a good time for you to invest in a good street map of Manhattan, so you can get your bearings and plan your specific itinerary.

vicki,

I'm not sure where exactly you live, but you have several options on where to catch the train heading toward NYC. Amtrak has stations in DC (Union Station), New Carrolton, MD (just inside the Washington Beltway off Rt. 50), at BWI airport, and in downtown Baltimore (Penn Station). Just pick the one closest to your house.

Times Square is very convenient to shopping, NBC studios (arrive VERY early to get your tickets and then come back later for the tour - the NBC tours are timed entry tickets but often sell out very early in the AM), and the Broadway theaters (you really should include a show on your visit). The convenience of Times Square makes it a good hotel location for a first time visitor.

Yes, yes, yes. NYC is the third most expensive city in the world - just behind London and Tokyo. Worth every penny!

I agree that walking from Penn Station is a good idea. Especially if the wait for a taxi seems forever it may actually be quicker to walk. Don't get in any car except an official yellow taxi - even if the line for one is long. If anyone offers you an alternate form of car just say NO!

Thhe Strand book store is located at the corner of 12th Street and Broadway.

Hours
Monday-Saturday 9:30 AM-10:30 PM
Sunday 11:00 AM-10:30 PM

Take the N R Q W 4 5 6 or L train to Union Square. Walk two blocks South to 12th street.

828 Broadway
(at 12th St.)
New York, NY. 10003-4805

212-473-1452
212-473-2591 fax


And yes, I strongly agree that you need to go to Borders, Barnes&Noble or somewhere and get a tourist street map of Manhatten ASAP.

Another dumb question....

Do all cabs cost the same? Is there a standard per mile cost? I have only been in a cab once in my life -- in Atlanta many years ago. And how much do you tip the cabbie?

Daughter wants me to ask how we get into the crowd that is shown outside the NBC studio, chatting with Al Roker? Does this require tickets?

I think the BWI location is where we will get the Amtrak. I just looked at the Amtrak site and found that the cost of a round-trip ticket is $120 if you leave before 7:00 a.m. The fare goes up to $160 after that. We can easily make it before 7:00 a.m. Could the fare have actually decreased in the last few weeks? Last time I checked it was $200.

Thanks so much for the help.

Vicki

Cabs start at a $2.50 minimum. After that, it is $0.40 for every quarter mile (approx 4 short - north/south - blocks or 1 long - east/west). The meter also clicks approx every minute that you are sitting stuck in traffic. There is a $1 surcharge for weekdays between 4:00 and 8:00 pm, and a $0.50 surcharge for nights and weekend. There is no surcharge for luggage or extra people. Cabbies, by law, cannot take more than 4 people in a cab. They are not required to take bills greater than $20.

Tip approx 10-20%. Most cabbies do not like to deal with coins, so from a practical perspective, the easiest thing is generally to round the fare up to the nearest dollar and than add one (for fares less than $10) or two (for fares between $10 and 16) dollars. For example, if the fare is $7.60, round up and add 1, so give the cabbie $9. Of course, if the cabbie helps you with luggage or is otherwise helpful, the tip should be increased.

Try not to get overwhelmed - I hope you have a wonderful time!

Also, as for the comment about $20-25 being low for a NY entree - while it is certainly true that you can easily spend $25, or much more, per entree in "big name" tourist or expense-account places, NY also has THOUSANDS of neighborhood places with entrees in the $10-20 range. Most of these restaurants - many of which are quite delicious - will be found in neighborhoods where New Yorkers actually live, such as the UES, UWS, LES, East Village - rather than the corporate/tourist atmosphere of midtown.

Getting into the crowd outside the Today show is as easy as showing up early--really early! No tix required. How you get their attention to come chat with you is another matter--it's up to you how far you'll go!
Have fun!

I am going to close out my post for the time being and resume next month as the time for our trip to New York City nears. The purpose of my posting initially was to try to decide if this trip was something I should consider, and with the help of you good people here who answered some of my basic questions, I began to think "well...yeah...maybe I CAN do this." What I have learned from this board: That I probably should skip the Chinatown bus this time, since it is our first trip, and that Amtrak is probably the best choice to get us to the city; our hotel is approx 13 blocks from Penn Station, and it is walkable as long as I don't have too much to carry. I know how to tip the cab driver and not to get into any cab unless it is yellow. Before I posted here, I knew zilch.

So the plans are laid, and as the time draws nearer, I am sure I will have more questions. I hope that ya'll will still be kind enough to help me out when I return.

Vicki