West of Manitou Springs on Rte 24 you could visit the Florissant Fossil Beds National Monument.

the zoo in Co Springs is a good one, even for adults, with great views from there and the nearby Will Rogers shrine. Red Rock Canyon is a stunning.

I would by-pass Manitou Springs for any of these

In Golden with kids I would substitute Co Railway Museum and/or Buffalo Bill museum for a brewery tour.

Woody Creek Vodka is in Basalt and highly regarded. I'm sure you can buy vodka elsewhere, but the distillery would enrich the visit and possibly the vidka. I suppose I'll have to see how Saturday from Grand Lake to Glenwood Springs travels.

Tabernash2, You are the voice of Aspen. I like it.

Gretchen, gondola. Superb idea. I contacted more gondolas than I care to admit at the beginning of my planning and all but Telluride were closed. I'll have to revisit Aspen gondola.

Vttraveler, the Buffalo Bill museum sounds new and different.

Is there an area of Aspen to pick up Maroon Bell bus?

When we drive Vail to Winter Park, going that back way, it takes about 2.5 hrs.

The back way is pretty. Beware of road construction. They'll probably be done by then. And watch for deer on the road.

So I'm guessing about the same time, for Grand Lake to Vail: 2.5 hrs.

From Vail to Glenwood Springs, I'm guessing 2 hrs.

So a total of 4.5 hours driving, in good weather conditions, plus stops. That's a conservative guess.

I hadn't heard of the vodka in Basalt. Let us know if you get there.

I don't know about the gondolas or chair lifts running in October in Aspen. Check Snowmass, too.

Vail to Glenwood springs is about an hour or a touch less.

Fmpden is probably right.

Yes, on the hour--and don't forget to stop at the exhibit for the highway just before Glenwood Springs.

I always estimate more drive time than others. We like to take our time when driving through gorgeous country.

From many, many trips it is exactly 100 miles from Snowmass Village to center of Vail. From Aspen add another ten miles. So it is roughly 50 miles from Vail to Gwood Springs. With the exception of the last 20 miles in the canyon the speed limit is 70. The canyon is 50, 55. So that does slow down a bit.

Aspen gondolas closed. Guess we'll rely on glenwood park high-up-travel-thingy.

Gretchen, great - putting highway exhibit back . Thanks!

Tab, thanks for high route confidence to gs.

Fmp, I wonder if Google maps knows about speed limits.

I am sure Goggle does. May not know about temporary speed limits. As I stated earlier I would assume all gondolas are closed. It is the middle of getting ready for the ski season. Snow guns are out and running if cold enough, high pressure water and air lines are everywhere. Nobody wants a tourist wondering through those areas. The exception might be the two gondolas that services the two mountain restaurants at Keystone. But I would assume that the restaurants are not open so the gondolas would not be running. Oct is the transition month from summer to winter for the resorts.

I just finished the CNN series High Profits, which is a documentary on the dispensaries mainly in Breck. The end of the series focused on a young couple who had a medical dispensary on Main St in Breck for six years and last year the city council forced them to move to Airport Rd, where the rest of the dispensaries are. I'm disappointed in the city of Breck and the $25,000 campaign that went toward banning this business from Main St. So I ask, what do residence think about legalization and the new businesses that pop up? Do most cities clump these type of businesses into one area of town? Thanks

I just wonder why you care? It could well be that the town is protecting its image as a wholesome family friendly venue for its Main Street.
I believe it is still a federal offense.

I suspect Gretchen is correct about the reason. In Fort Collins the few dispensaries are scattered about town. None are directly on the main downtown area where most tourists would go. Boulder has some right on the Pearl Street Mall area, but others scattered about as well.

It must depend on city council rulings where the shops can go in each town.

If this issue wasn't in the news then I wouldn't even be aware that anything had changed over the last couple of years. It's kind of fun to see edible pot recipes in The Denver Post, however.

Never thought I'd live to see this. Now that it's legal in a state where I live the irony is I don't enjoy the stuff more. I'll stick to craft beers.

Have a great trip. I was up on a peak in RMNP last week and saw the first blush of color in some aspen trees along Fall River Road. Fall has fully arrived in the alpine tundra, with lots of the vegetation turning vivid red.

Gretchen on Sep 9, 15 at 7:11am
I just wonder why you care?

That's rather rude. Googs can care about whatever he/she wants. It's a perfectly valid question.

I agree with Gretchen and think it's silly Googs is disappointed in a local issue. Breckenridge is probably smart avoiding the disaster the 16th Street Mall in Denver is becoming.

Thank you Tabernash2!!

Documentaries can become quite compelling. The Breck shop is still open under the same name, but no canibus sold. No-one won. Anyhoooo, I recommend the series.

In Lakewood near where DD used to live was a street with several head shops--prior to legalization.
I avoid the 16th St. mall like the plague anyway, but that would be right up its alley, IMO.
DS is an associate AG--it is a dilemma for law enforcement--federal and state--, no matter how you feel about it all. Lots of "ins and outs"--you can give a buddy X amount before it becomes a law breaker, buy, sell, etc.

And I certainly legitimately can be curious why she cares--or thinks it is a travesty. Problem solved--just don't sell pot if you want to be in the middle of the crowds AND it obviously wasn't their main product?

This beginning to drift a little far from the original question even if it is a slight new questions.

Whether you like or not, this question has been voted on a number of times and always approved by the voters. So this isn't a one time fluke. It is now a part of the state constitution. Because the amendment had a lot of opt in and out options, some of the smaller, more conservative local governments have been trying to establish local regulations to severely limited access or deny access. A couple of attempts have made to repeal the amendment but that lasted about 30 seconds. So you have to assume the majority of the population either approves or it is not important to them.

Maybe Breckenridge would like to push it off to airport road but I am sure that Breckenridge will not turn down a dime of the tax revenue it generates for the city.

We like the 16th St Mall and are there frequently. In fact, will be there tomorrow afternoon and evening. Our favorite wine maker is just a block off the mall. It has been a huge success when compared to all of the mall conversions that failed across the US over the past 30. years. It has problems associate with most urban areas. But no topless walking around yet, but who knows what you can hope for in the future.

Who is your favorite winemaker near the mall? We'd be interested in stopping in.

Sorry to sidetrack, Googs. People all over the country are interested in this question, and how Colorado is handling it. I'd be interested, too, even if I didn't live here. Other states are learning from Colorado.

Now, back to our regular programming.

An interesting article in today's Denver Post - because of the state tax structure, too much tax revenue has come from the sale of pot so some of this revenue has to be returned to the users. A couple of options but most likely a sales tax holiday for a few days next year.

Meant to post this earlier -----

....Grand Lake to Glenwood Springs via Kremmling and Bond....


That is a very long and slow route so do not be tempted to come down Hwy 9 to Silverthorne. There was a TV report on the road construction along 9 from Kremmling to Silverthorne. That is a total mess. It is a massive reconstruction going on. The report gave no time for completion but assume it would have to be before winter really set in.

Good luck.

Ah, good tip fmpden, I see the construction on Google maps on 9. Timings show 30 mins less via State Bridge (near Bond), vs taking I70 through Winter Park.

Grand Lake to Glenwood Springs - If we do take 40, 1, and 131 (Kremmling, State Bridge, Bond, Walcott) any lunch recommendations?

Good chatter regarding legalization. Gretchen, CO is ground-breaking with the first to transition from medicinal to recreational which makes for interesting developments and capitalism. IMO a six-year-old business should not be forced to move.

Nelson, I can imagine the colors emerging. <getting aflutter>

Iron Mountain Hot Springs is newly open in Glenwood Springs. Has anyone been? The property looks superb and has 16 mineral pools and a freshwater family pool, all which align the CO River.

Estes Park to Grand Lake, baring each are open, which road would you take out of Estes Park? Fall River Rd (34) or Trail Ridge Rd (36)? Both converge at Deer Mountain Trailhead, according to my bible Google maps. Hahaha.

Red Rocks Amphitheater, do they let you walk around freely when there’s no event?

Last comment on anything - yes, you can walk around red rocks. Head to Canada at first light on Saturday. I hate it when I book early flights.

IMO a six-year-old business should not be forced to move.

According to your report, they didn't. Non? Isn't choice a wonderful thing. ;o)

"taking I70 through Winter Park."

You mean 40 through WP.
You'd take 40 over Berthoud Pass, to I-70, where you can go East toward Denver, or West toward Summit County, Vail, etc.

We choose between those two routes quite often.

We actually prefer 9, because it winds along the Blue River, in open country. It is uninhabited for the most part between Silverthorne and Kremmling. Also because we get sick of 70. And because DH loves driving his S60R on 9.

Fmpden is right, if there is construction, do not take 9. It's mostly a two-lane road. Unless they are working on widening it. I hope not.

"Estes Park to Grand Lake, baring each are open, which road would you take out of Estes Park? Fall River Rd (34) or Trail Ridge Rd (36)?"

Earlier you were looking for the shortest route to the Bear Lake loop - that would definitely be 36.

Tabernash2, It sounds like fun driving on 9 with a hot car.

fmpden, Thanks we'll have a blast exploring Rocks

WhereAreWe, After Bear Lake we are going to Estes Park for lunch at The Stanley. Google has similar travel times, so I'm trying to determine if we should take Fall River Rd or Trail Ridge Rd to start our journey into RMNP. Is there scenery on one of the roads that can't be beat?

Grand Lake to Glenwood Springs - Gmaps quotes 30 min less if take 1 (near Bond) which comes to I-70 at Wolcott vs Winter Park down to I70 route. I'd hope 1 and 131 are paved roads.

From the Stanley your best bet is to just turn right as you exit and head up the Fall River Road (Highway 34). This has scenery all the way and especially after you pass the Park entrance and go through Horseshoe Park. Bighorn sheep or other wildlife often seen here.

Beyond Horseshoe Park you come to the junction with Highway 36. This is where Trail Ridge Road really starts. Turn right and you are on your way to Grand Lake.

I just noticed that Google Maps is showing the junction of Highway 34 and 36 as closed in winter. This is incorrect. The closures are almost always higher up 34 than that.

Merci to you all for your warnings, wit and words of wisdom! Although small obstacles remain, I would have been frazzled using my first itinerary. Colorado has been a long time coming, but we're very grateful to be able to travel. Thank you. Life is good.

To give you an up dated report.

We just drove over Trail Ridge Road yesterday - Monday. Lots of tourists in Estes Park. At the lower levels the Aspen leaves are at their peak. At the upper levels they are pretty much gone. At best about half the leaves are still on the trees and wind is pulling off the rest. Near the top of Trail Ridge we encountered about 15 mins of heavy snow and high wind. Roads were wet and a touch icy in spots at the top. Winter is close. Pack your long johns.

Don't remember if Mt Evans was on your list but the road closes this week. I-70 construction, mostly east bound from Georgetown to Idaho Springs is winding down and we had a good two lanes and sometimes three through that area. The bulk of the construction in the Idaho Springs area is around the middle exit. The eastern most exit to I Springs off I-70E is closed. When finished the third lane will be a toll lane.

The one thing I had kind of forgotten is how slow it is to drive Trail Ridge especially if looking around. Then it is even slower.

Wow fmpden - thank you for the info! How long did it take you to drive TRR? I've been visiting the Road Status page, but still only mentions "OPEN FOR THE SEASON, weather and conditions permitting."

Unfortunately we may have to skip Bear Lake Trail to make it through TRR before 6:20 sunset. Friday we drive from Boulder to Grand Lake with stop in Estes Park.

We dropped Mt Evans when web site said it closed Labor Day.

Has the construction on 9 lightened up?

Don't know status of hwy 9 but most mountain road construction will wind down by end of Oct simply because of the weather conditions.

It seems to me that it took a good two to two and half hours to drive Trail Road from Estes but we also made four or five stops. It is easy to get caught behind a 30 mph tourist car just slowly looking around. And I was surprised about how much of that roads still does not have guard rails so you do have to stay alert. The driver should not be doing a lot of looking around.

Personally I would just drive the main street of Estes and keeping going. Stanley Hotel is worth the stop but beyond that I personally do not find Estes Park all that attractive. However, the Elk rut could be underway by that time so that can add a lot of congestion. You might plan 3 hrs for Trail Ridge. Will depend on how much stopping you will want to do.

<i>> Unfortunately we may have to skip Bear Lake Trail to make it through TRR before 6:20 sunset.</i>

This was the problem with your trip from the start, the reason you got some push back on the proposed itinerary.

Weather will determine some of your October decisions.

In any case, I do hope you have a great trip.
Let us know how it went!

Great fmpden, under three hours with stops doing TRR.
We don't shop much so our Estes to-do list is short (The Stanley & Rocket Fizz). I've also taken the street view tour on Google maps, so feel like I've already been to EP. Haha. If I can get family out of bed at a decent time we may have time for Bear Lake.

Nelson, I sure will let you all know how it went! You've been a wondrous help.

Any recommendations for lunch in Breck? These from Trip Advisor appealed to me.
• Twist
• Empire Burger
• Soupz On
• Giampietro Pizzeria

>>WhereAreWe, After Bear Lake we are going to Estes Park for lunch at The Stanley.<<

Is lunch at the Stanley still your plan? If so, you should have time to drive Bear Lake Road and make some stops before lunch, as long as you get the family moving at a decent time.

And if you are done with lunch by 2 or earlier, that leaves plenty of time to drive over TRR and get to Grand Lake before sunset. There are some nice overlooks but the main stop is at Rock Cut to hike the short trail. That may take 20-30 minutes but the other stops are fairly short if you need them to be.

Unfortunately the weather pattern appears to be shifting. We just left Sept as the hottest month on record and one of the driest to what appears to be cool to cold and wet. Cold and wet means snow in the mountains so be prepared.

When we were there earlier this week, I meant to look up Rocket Fizz. Never heard of it so want to know what the attraction was for Rocket Fizz.

Not familiar with any of your lunch places other than Empire Burger. But we tend not to eat lunch in Breckenridge since most of the time we are there during ski season. Depending on the weather we plan to spend a day there next week.

I am not sure if you are going to drive over Berthoud Pass (hwy 40) on your way to Summit County. But, if you do, stop in Empire at the Hard Rock Cafe (not the chain).

It's a great little down-home place with homemade food. Fantastic burgers, and also Mexican food and lots of other choices. You can sit on the patio out back.

WhereAreWe, Yes to lunch at The Stanley. It’d be nice to have hotel breakfast and get over to Bear Lake post haste, while smelling the roses. Haha. We’ll have to see how everyone is adjusting to travels and waking at 4am the day before. So, this Rock Cut you speak of, I have not heard about this. Sound like a great place to stretch. Thanks! I see it now, and it’s next to the Alpine Visitor Center which closes October 12. Darn, I guess we’ll visit one of the other centers.

Fmpden, I see the weather is a-changing here in MN too. We learned of Rocket Fizz on Undercover Boss and wanted to make a whimsical stop sometime to see the nostalgic candy and new-age pop. There are seven locations in CO including Boulder and Denver. Please let me know if you have a good meal in Breck. Thanks!

Any restaurant recommendations in Georgetown for lunch?

Has anyone been to Gingercello at Marble Distilling Company in Carbondale? Rave reviews.

Thanks Tabernash2, love little gems like Hard Rock. Also, I have been researching dinner options in Aspen… L'Hosteria and Wild Fig don’t seem like places to take kids. Do you have any recommendations there? Kids are 7 and 10. Thank you!

Googs, have a look at the Breck Brewpub and Fatty's Pizza:

http://www.fattyspizzeria.com/
http://www.breckbrewpub.com/menu/dinner

These are not yer fine dining establishments, but we've had fun in both joints. Food is OK. We're not Breck regulars, but there are plenty of options in town.

Rock Cut is definitely a great place to stretch. The nature trail heads gently uphill on the right side of the road, though at 12'000' gentle is relative. If you luck out with the weather (hope so!) then slowly start strolling up there. It's a paved path.

I like WhereAreWe's plan: you can make it to Bear Lake before lunch.

Have fun.

Googs, well-behaved kids are fine at any Aspen restaurant. It's a resort town, and they accommodate families nicely. We have taken our older kids to many restaurants there.

You might ask about kid's menus. I don't remember.

We also love the Hotel Jerome's restaurant for breakfast, and their Bar for burgers. Very good dinners, too.

As you enter Aspen, there's a family-style BBQ place, which name I forget. It's pretty good. And there's a Mexican restaurant the kids would like, too.

Also, there is a nice little grocery market in downtown Aspen, across from Aspen Square. Across its parking lot is a good deli.