"Visa/MC will make good on any charges on foreign credit cards.
Neither the customer or the business is responsible for fraudulent use of credit cards...why would the gas companies cut off their noses?"

Robjame - the point is that someone still has to pay. If the customer or business isn't responsible, then the CC company is. Maybe this is too easy of a fraud issue and they are trying to cut their losses.

Someone pays, someone ALWAYS pays.

My cc did not work at the pump in Canada. I had to walk in and pre-pay. GASP!

It never occured to be to slam Canada though. :-?

I live in California and have been doing the "ZIP Code" thing for so long it's almost second nature. Doesn't bother me at all.

But to those who have issues with going inside to pay and leaving their card with the attendant because they fear something might happen to their card? Really? And you think paying at the pump is really all that more safe? I'm not sure about other states, but I know here in California we get quite a few warnings to people who have bought gas at (list of gas stations) to check their bank statements because the pumps were compromised and thieves managed to make copies of CC numbers, Debit card number, etc. Problem is, by the time it is noticed that these pumps have beem tampered with it could be days, even weeks before anyone is notified. Paying at the pump does not guarantee safety!

I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this, but at least in CA you can select the "ATM" option at the pump and type in your PIN instead of a zip code.

But you are absolutely right -- there should be an option for foreign visitors to use their ccs at the pump. How obnoxious that there isn't!

<<My cc did not work at the pump in Canada. I had to walk in and pre-pay>>

That is curious starrsville cause I have never seen a prepay at a gas station in Canada. Where did that happen? I have also never heard of a foreign cc being refused.

I guess you people are right. I should accept these things when I visit a country. Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the US.

Outside the Toronto airport. Trying to fill up the rental car before turning it back in.

>>I should accept these things when I visit a country. Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the US.<<

There's no cc fraud in Canada? Wow, you people really are behind the times. Do Canadians not require PINs when using ATMs? No passwords when accessing Web sites? Eh?

I doubt that entering the zip is for market-research purposes. All that info, including zip, is already included with your cc application.

<i>I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this, but at least in CA you can select the &quot;ATM&quot; option at the pump and type in your PIN instead of a zip code.</i>

That's true if you're using a debit card (it can be &quot;entered&quot; either as an ATM or &quot;credit&quot; card), but it doesn't apply the other way around - you can't choose to use a credit card as a debit card, so the PIN thing doesn't apply.

Does Arco in California still have that silly policy of ATM/debit cards ONLY -- no credit cards?

I don't think this is yet another example of the U.S. being unfriendly to tourists, as you constantly point out. It's not a conspiracy against you.

Even at the RedBox DVD self-service machines here in Colorado, we have to enter the zip code associated with the credit/debit card we're using. I suppose it's in lieu of asking for the entire billing address.

Sheesh. Give it a rest, Robjame. The U.S. is not as crime-ridden and unfriendly as you always say it is.
:)&gt;-

Patrick, yes re Arco in the Bay Area- debit only, no credit cards.

Well MaureenB – never let the truth get in the way of a good story
Now, I never said that the US is unfriendly. I said that the policy was unfriendly to tourists.
As for “crime ridden” – don’t think I said that either. However, a large number of posters explained to me that the policy was necessary to counteract fraud (a crime).

Now what I “did” find out when I spoke to a rep of one of the companies is that the fraud is being committed by customers who challenge charges without their signatures. This policy is to counteract those fraudulent challenges by providing evidence that it is NOT a machine error, because machines don’t know zip codes of credit cards. Same as the RedBox – they don’t require a signature. With the zip code they can counteract the fraudulent challenges by their customers. As she said to me, “Anyone in this country can get a credit card.”

Now, as far as the US, having higher crime (per capita) than Canada, especially in some areas, is that incorrect?

Did you read the icing on the cake, the Visa Vanilla card?

j 999 - you really don't get it do you?

This is a travel board. Of course if you are not interested in how certain policies affect tourists….

&quot;This policy is to counteract those fraudulent challenges by providing evidence that it is NOT a machine error, because machines don’t know zip codes of credit cards.&quot;

Could you then explain why recently as I was entering my zip code at a gas station, I thought I accidentally hit a wrong digit and sure enough I got a declined message? I re-entered the card and punched in the right zip code and it went right through. To test it, I used another card and purposely entered the wrong zip. Sure enough it was declined. If the machine doesn't &quot;know&quot; zip codes, this was a strange set of three very odd co-incidences in a row.

And robjame, don't try to play too innocent. This post of yours speaks volumes of &quot;hidden meaning&quot;:
&quot;Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the US.&quot;
You forget? Yea. Right.


Meanwhile anyone &quot;dumb&quot; enough to buy any VISA gift card deserves to have extra problems. In addition to outrageous extra foreign exchange fees and various load and unload fees, the whole idea is nothing short of a lesson in how to throw away cash!


And meanwhile regarding the whole idea of this &quot;turning off tourists&quot;, over many years I've learned to accept that foreign banks will not cash a check for me, nor even change their own currency into smaller bills for me since I don't have an account there. I've learned my credit card won't work in many ticket and other machines. I've learned that international traveler's checks are impossible to cash. I don't expect menus and all signs to me in my language even though many of those places actually rely on English speaking people as tourists. The list goes on and on. All of these things could be changed if they wanted to be more &quot;tourist friendly&quot;. Yet it has never occurred to me to &quot;trash&quot; all those countries for being &quot;tourist unfriendly&quot;. I just accept that because I am a foreigner, I may expect certain extra efforts.

Yes this is a tourist board, but quite frankly if any foreign tourist wants to complain about actually having to walk 20 feet and pay for his gas inside because he comes from a different country and the local machines haven't been specially programmed for him, I hope he stays home -- we don't need any more whiners here; we have enough of our own, thank you!

&quot;As for “crime ridden” – don’t think I said that either.&quot;

Yes, you did, robjame:
&quot;Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the U.S.&quot;

Rates of crime are probably higher here, or in any other country that has the density of population we have in our cities. More people, more crime. Duh.

Your thinly-veiled comments don't fool anyone.
:)&gt;-

yeah its like that everywhere in CA too. You could alway go inside and have the person working ring it up there, couldnt you?

Ok Neo - I don't know if you are being deliberately thick on this or don't understand. I will try once more and then will leave it.

1. &quot;Could you then explain why recently as I was entering my zip code..&quot;
When people swipe their card in a machine it is authenticated through a terminal with the cc company to make sure it is valid. The cc company knows your zip and uses this as an authentication.

Most times a cc is stolen, the thief knows the zip but that is not the primary reason for this zip authentication according to spokesperson at Hess. The legitimate customer can challenge the particular purchase. It will result in a chargeback to the retailer unless the retailer can provide proof. This proof is usually a signature (not required at the pumps). So the retailer has no proof. Now he does. He can say that he required you to add your zip so you must have used it. (You didn't report your cc stolen).

I understand that and it makes sense to me.

2. &quot;You forget?&quot; You are right. It was attempted sarcasm. Lead balloon.

3. &quot; extra foreign exchange fees and various load and unload fees,&quot;
No - wrong.

It is like a gift card. I can buy it with my cc (let's say $100) and now it is worth $100 anywhere Visa is accepted - except the pumps.

4. &quot;I just accept that because I am a foreigner, I may expect certain extra efforts.&quot; but it hasn't stopped you from commenting on them and I protect your right to do so and alert others of your experiences and preferences. Personally I like Tim Horton's coffee.

5. &quot;having to walk 20 feet and pay for his gas&quot; I am sure you know it isn't as simple as that.
The requirement is for me to line-up (a bit of an annoyance), surrender my credit card (which Visa tells me not to do), return after pumping my gas to line-up (more of an annoyance) and reclaim my card.
Now I, like you, have gotten used to the easier system, especially at busy times and busy stations. Try it this way for a month and report back.

6. &quot;we don't need any more whiners here; we have enough of our own, thank you!&quot;

I don't need to comment on that remark.

robjame, I get all that about why they ask the zip, but I was reacting to the posts that indicate it makes no difference what zip you enter and the statement that the machine doesn't &quot;know&quot; your zip -- no of course it doesn't, but the terminal it's attached to DOES.

lead balloon? No we all got your sarcasm, that's why we're pointing out that it is pointless to &quot;act&quot; like you weren't running down the US for the crime issue. Your &quot;I forget&quot; line made it very clear. Understand?

I know nothing about Visa gift cards in Canada, but you can go to the Visa site and check out what they are like in the US, and as has been reported here many times, they add something like a 7% conversion charge for ALL foreign purchases with them. Sorry, if the Canadian one doesn't do that, but it sure suprises me.

Sorry, I offended your taste in coffee, but the fact that Tim Horton's happens to be in Canada had nothing to do with my comments. I hate 7-11 coffee and MacDonald's coffee in the US almost as much.

And I do apologize. I didn't realize it was SUCH an ordeal to go inside and pay cash. Some of us aren't as bothered by such things as others. If I had to stand in a line of customers to surrender my card and again stand in line to reclaim it, I'd be looking for a less busy gas station -- are all the people there Canadians who can't use the machines? Why the lines?

And my list of comments about things in other countries. Who on earth says I'm complaining about them? I wouldn't even comment on them except to point out how silly your complaints are. My point was as a foreign traveler I EXPECT things to be different for me. Sadly some travelers take it as a personal affront.

OK, I looked up this Visa Vanilla Card. It is not like all other Visa gift cards I've seen. What on earth is the point of it? No there is no foreign fee since it can't be used in a foreign country -- only the US. I read through all the rules including the idea that it can never be used at a gas pump, and for the life of me I can't understand a single reason for buying one -- other than to give to someone as a gift. But I'd rather someone give me the $100 than one of those silly cards. Why would you buy one with a Visa card for your own use -- why not just use the VISA card itself when you need it -- unless you have some big burning desire to pay the &quot;prepaid&quot; amount in advance instead of when you need it?

A couple of interesting points on the Visa Vanilla Card:

18. How do I dispute a Vanilla card transaction?
If there is any dispute in regard to purchases you make using the Card, you agree to settle such disputes with the merchant from whom the purchase was made. (As opposed to using your credit card where they will dispute it for you?)

14. When can I start using my Vanilla card?
You can start using your Vanilla card at the time of purchase. The Vanilla card is activated at the store. NOTE: some retailers may hold funds for up to 18 hours after time of purchase. (HUH? Hold what funds?)

11. If I lose or my card gets stolen how do I get a refund or a replacement card?
If you believe that your Card has been lost or stolen you need to notify us IMMEDIATELY. You can do this by going to www.vanillavisa.com and click on the contact us section.. You will be asked to provide us with the Card number and other identifying details. We cannot provide a refund if you do not have your Card number. If our records show that a Balance still remains on the Card, we will cancel the Card and may refund such available Balance amounts to you in the form of another gift card. There is a $5.95 fee for replacing a lost card. (As opposed to free replacement of a lost credit card)


6. Why is the merchant charging me for more than what I signed on my receipt?
Some purchases require a preauthorization. This is where the merchant sends in a transaction for a higher amount than the purchase. For example a $40 purchase at a restaurant is typically sent by the restaurant as $48 as they want to allow for a tip. We are required to approve and hold funds based on the $48 until the merchant finalizes the transaction which can take up to 10 days. (My, isn't THAT convenient?)

And one more:
&quot;If you want to make a purchase for an amount greater than the remaining Balance, you must notify the merchant before completing the transaction.&quot;

I repeat, what is the point of this card -- particularly buying one for your own use?

Robjame give me a break. I am Canadian. Our home is in Victoria. We have spent the last 19 years going to the sunny south of the US. We spend 6 months away and own our US home so I can make a comparison here. We have NEVER been affected by crime during our time in the US. My daughter and husband have lived in San Francisco and now Corpus Christi Texas and in the fourteen years they have never had a problem either.

In Victoria (we live in a nice neighbourhood) this is what has happened to us

We were broken into twice (during the summer when we were there).

My husbands car was broken into
.
There was a high speed police chase by our front door with shots being fired.

Neighbours down the street had their house set fire by an arsonist.

Just last week two people were attacked in broad daylight sending them to hospital on a busy downtown street.

Crime goes on everywhere and in my opinion if you are talking per capita Victoria is certainly up there so forget the sweeping statements about US crime.