baybee510,

Yes it does prevent fraud.

But only for people with a US zip code.

Neo - if a customer disputes a cc charge, the merchant must produce a signed receipt if the charge is more than $25. Not possible for pump transactions. I gather that knowing this, a lot of "honorable" citizens have been disputing the charges. Now the merchant can say that it is not an error in the machine etc as you inputed your zip.

Let me restate that if you have a foreign Visa or MC, no numbers will work!
As for leaving your card with a gas station attendant, not something I do.
Of course, the solution that some countries have adopted is the PIN credit card.

I believe that if it's an international cc, the system doesn't care what 5 digits you put in - it KNOWS that the card is not a US card, and since it can't connect to the foreign cc's bank database, it doesn't worry about what you enter.

However, when you use a US cc, the machine connects to the cc's bank database and verifies whether the zip code matches the billing address on the card.

It is used in place of looking at your driver license as a prevention of fraud. It's going to be effective in some instances and not in others.

I don't agree with the premise that it's tourist unfriendly - esp. if any code will work.

Even if any 5 digit code would not work for non-US patrons, I still think that, on balance, it's a better policy. Gas is expensive and increasingly attractive to steal. It's also really easy to steal with a stolen credit card, because it can fly under the radar of CC companies' fraud detection (unless there are many transactions in a really short period). Tourists are generally a fraction of the patrons at gas stations. I get that the airports should be more tourist-friendly, but not gas stations.

Card theft and identity theft are real, and the more that's done to make it harder and to minimize problems for the victims, the better. My husband had his identity stolen several years ago, and there are still accounts opened here and there in his name, and getting them closed (esp. if they're at collection agencies) can be really time-consuming. Anything that can make use of a stolen card more difficult is good. If the CC companies can't mitigate their fraud losses, the public will end up paying more in the long run (just like the costs of insurance fraud are passed on to the public in premiums).

kgh - I guess you missed the point. The policy has nothing to do with "Card theft and identity theft".
Secondly, no code will work!

<<The policy has nothing to do with "Card theft and identity theft".>>

Apparently the first place a person takes a stolen credit card to is a gas station. Why? Because they can easily test to see if it's been reported stolen or not WITHOUT having to deal with a person. They drive up, run it through the machine and if it works, they fill up their tank and head out to spend as much as they can in as little time as possible. If it doesn't work, they leave and toss the card.

No witnesses, no one trying to take the card away, etc.

There are many gas stations here in Ohio that require the zip code. I do not mind entering my zipcode it takes less than 10 seconds.

However at a station last week, I swiped my card and the reader said see attendant. I went inside and the attendant said that if you have used your card ANYWHERE in the last 24 hrs you will have to come inside. It is a new antifraud measure. I told her I would stop shopping there.

Wow, kencolian... I would certainly draw the line there!
I don't think my card ever goes 24 hours without being used!

toed - exactly...except if the card was stolen, a purse or wallet was also stolen. Who among us has not got a record of their zip in their wallet and purse.
And, as I mentioned above, the company told me that they instituted the policy for one reason... to counteract challenges from the (crooked) credit card owners.

What we found unusual when we visited the US earlier this year was the fact when we used our Visa card we never had to sign anything or put in a pin number. We thought it was very strange.

Here in NZ we either have to enter a pin number when we use our card, or sign the paperwork and our signature is checked against the card. We specifically got pin numbers before we went on our trip thinking that would be the norm in the US. Didn't prove to be the case.

I think card issuers are trying to check up on gas purchases more. We purchased gas for three vehicles the same morning and got a call from our card issuer to verify it. We normally never would do that and their computer picked up the pattern.

I also would not leave my card with the attendant in the station. If both of you are there, one should wait inside with the card. If there is just one of you, I would ask them for the card back or ask them to pump the gas. It's the least they can do for your inconvenience.

Robjame - not ALL credit card theft is from stolen wallets or purses.

Some is simply stealing the number of the credit card. Some is forgetting your card in a store (you'd be amazed how often that happens). Some is someone "forgetting" to hand your card back to you in a store. Some is making a copy of the card (photo, etc.) and then using the information to create a "fake" card.

So, that's why earlier I said that "It's going to be effective in some instances and not in others."

Also remember that when it's a new process, it will catch more people. Even if they stole the wallet, a lot of thieves don't know that they will need to know the billing zip code to use the card. So, they toss the wallet with the zip code out. They go to the gas station and they don't have the info. They didn't know they were going to need it.

As the system gets older, the thieves will get better at getting around it, but for a while, it's fairly effective.

I totally agree... in fact, MANY credit cards are fraudulently used without ever having seen any other information about the victim.
In the past year I have found THREE credit cards. All at the pharmacy drive through.
It's like people get their medicine out of the box and forget about the card.
If I had been a dishonest person, I could have run across the street to the Exxon and filled my tank.
My daughter has found many cards in her retail jobs... dropped and kicked under the little ledge by the register.
In the past I have found a 50 pound note and a 100.00 bill on the floor near registers.
Kids and people at parties or other events where people are watching their purse too well have been known to slip cash or credit cards out of wallets and using them before the victim even notices.
There are so many examples I could go on and on...

I can tell you first hand as a business owner (although not a gas station) and having 85% of our business oversees, it is for fraud protection. We process eurpoean credit card payments. If someone uses a stolen credit card the merchant is responsible....the money is extracted directly out of your checking account by the credit card processing company without warning or notice. The victim of fraud does not pay, the credit card processor does not pay, so it is up to the merchant to enforce some kind of protection.

So I would say someone IS thinking!

<<So I would say someone IS thinking!>>

A little follow up to this...

We thought that we had found a solution to our particular problem...

A Visa gift card is being sold all over, even at Hess stations, called the Visa Vanilla Card. You put a certain amount of money on it and the recipient can use it anywhere a Visa Card can be used.
Great we thought....
We will buy one at the neighborhood Hess station, put $100 on it, keep it for ourselves and use it at the pumps (probably good for two visits these days).
Not so fast - even though these are sold at gas stations, are paid for in advance, THEY CANNOT BE USED AT THE PUMPS.

... and you really think that
"... someone IS thinking!"

I have experienced this irritant for the first time two years ago in California. My credit card is issued by Canadian institution and I am one of 5.7 billion people that don't have a zip code, but do like to visit the States as often as possible.

Any merchant that uses this method of fraud prevention, especially at an international destination is, to put it politely, shortsighted.

Fortunately, this method seems to be falling out of favor. Northern NY, NH, VT, and, I am guessing, all border states, are smart enough to know on which side their bread is buttered, and don't use the zip code nonsense.

I love the States, but sometimes they annoy me so.

Mark

"Not so fast - even though these are sold at gas stations, are paid for in advance, THEY CANNOT BE USED AT THE PUMPS.

... and you really think that
"... someone IS thinking!" "


So now we come right down to it. You will find any excuse to complain about having to actually go in and see the attendant. Can't people WALK in Canada?

Oh, come on, "California" is an international destination? It may be that, but it is also home to 36 million people. That is more than in the whole country of Canada.

Some significant percentage of that 36 million is going to be up to no good.

Then there are millions of other people, outside of California, who have U.S. zip codes. Over one-quarter of a billion of them (8 more Canadas) and there are millions of them visiting California every year.

cdnyul,

Anything that prevents/reduces fraud/theft is an improvement in my book. The extra effort is worth it.

Last year some of my relatives from Canada came for their annual visit. When the pump asked for a zip code I told them to just enter mine.

They then were able to pump gas. I imagine all you do is enter any zip code and the computer knows which cards to verify and which to ignore based on the issue location.

What I think would be more effective would be to have each person create a PIN that they enter via the internet.

That PIN would link to the card and disallow the card being used regardless of whether you have a zip code or not.

That could also be expanded for use at stores as well. I'm sure fraudulent purchases would be reduced by billions.

It is kind of funny to complain about actually having to go inside and pay for your gas when your credit card doesn't work (perhaps because of the zip code issue). How long has it been since we ALL had to go inside? How quickly we become spoiled.

"Visa/MC will make good on any charges on foreign credit cards.
Neither the customer or the business is responsible for fraudulent use of credit cards...why would the gas companies cut off their noses?"

Robjame - the point is that someone still has to pay. If the customer or business isn't responsible, then the CC company is. Maybe this is too easy of a fraud issue and they are trying to cut their losses.

Someone pays, someone ALWAYS pays.

My cc did not work at the pump in Canada. I had to walk in and pre-pay. GASP!

It never occured to be to slam Canada though. :-?

I live in California and have been doing the "ZIP Code" thing for so long it's almost second nature. Doesn't bother me at all.

But to those who have issues with going inside to pay and leaving their card with the attendant because they fear something might happen to their card? Really? And you think paying at the pump is really all that more safe? I'm not sure about other states, but I know here in California we get quite a few warnings to people who have bought gas at (list of gas stations) to check their bank statements because the pumps were compromised and thieves managed to make copies of CC numbers, Debit card number, etc. Problem is, by the time it is noticed that these pumps have beem tampered with it could be days, even weeks before anyone is notified. Paying at the pump does not guarantee safety!

I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this, but at least in CA you can select the "ATM" option at the pump and type in your PIN instead of a zip code.

But you are absolutely right -- there should be an option for foreign visitors to use their ccs at the pump. How obnoxious that there isn't!

<<My cc did not work at the pump in Canada. I had to walk in and pre-pay>>

That is curious starrsville cause I have never seen a prepay at a gas station in Canada. Where did that happen? I have also never heard of a foreign cc being refused.

I guess you people are right. I should accept these things when I visit a country. Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the US.

Outside the Toronto airport. Trying to fill up the rental car before turning it back in.

>>I should accept these things when I visit a country. Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the US.<<

There's no cc fraud in Canada? Wow, you people really are behind the times. Do Canadians not require PINs when using ATMs? No passwords when accessing Web sites? Eh?

I doubt that entering the zip is for market-research purposes. All that info, including zip, is already included with your cc application.

<i>I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this, but at least in CA you can select the &quot;ATM&quot; option at the pump and type in your PIN instead of a zip code.</i>

That's true if you're using a debit card (it can be &quot;entered&quot; either as an ATM or &quot;credit&quot; card), but it doesn't apply the other way around - you can't choose to use a credit card as a debit card, so the PIN thing doesn't apply.

Does Arco in California still have that silly policy of ATM/debit cards ONLY -- no credit cards?

I don't think this is yet another example of the U.S. being unfriendly to tourists, as you constantly point out. It's not a conspiracy against you.

Even at the RedBox DVD self-service machines here in Colorado, we have to enter the zip code associated with the credit/debit card we're using. I suppose it's in lieu of asking for the entire billing address.

Sheesh. Give it a rest, Robjame. The U.S. is not as crime-ridden and unfriendly as you always say it is.
:)&gt;-

Patrick, yes re Arco in the Bay Area- debit only, no credit cards.

Well MaureenB – never let the truth get in the way of a good story
Now, I never said that the US is unfriendly. I said that the policy was unfriendly to tourists.
As for “crime ridden” – don’t think I said that either. However, a large number of posters explained to me that the policy was necessary to counteract fraud (a crime).

Now what I “did” find out when I spoke to a rep of one of the companies is that the fraud is being committed by customers who challenge charges without their signatures. This policy is to counteract those fraudulent challenges by providing evidence that it is NOT a machine error, because machines don’t know zip codes of credit cards. Same as the RedBox – they don’t require a signature. With the zip code they can counteract the fraudulent challenges by their customers. As she said to me, “Anyone in this country can get a credit card.”

Now, as far as the US, having higher crime (per capita) than Canada, especially in some areas, is that incorrect?

Did you read the icing on the cake, the Visa Vanilla card?

j 999 - you really don't get it do you?

This is a travel board. Of course if you are not interested in how certain policies affect tourists….

&quot;This policy is to counteract those fraudulent challenges by providing evidence that it is NOT a machine error, because machines don’t know zip codes of credit cards.&quot;

Could you then explain why recently as I was entering my zip code at a gas station, I thought I accidentally hit a wrong digit and sure enough I got a declined message? I re-entered the card and punched in the right zip code and it went right through. To test it, I used another card and purposely entered the wrong zip. Sure enough it was declined. If the machine doesn't &quot;know&quot; zip codes, this was a strange set of three very odd co-incidences in a row.

And robjame, don't try to play too innocent. This post of yours speaks volumes of &quot;hidden meaning&quot;:
&quot;Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the US.&quot;
You forget? Yea. Right.


Meanwhile anyone &quot;dumb&quot; enough to buy any VISA gift card deserves to have extra problems. In addition to outrageous extra foreign exchange fees and various load and unload fees, the whole idea is nothing short of a lesson in how to throw away cash!


And meanwhile regarding the whole idea of this &quot;turning off tourists&quot;, over many years I've learned to accept that foreign banks will not cash a check for me, nor even change their own currency into smaller bills for me since I don't have an account there. I've learned my credit card won't work in many ticket and other machines. I've learned that international traveler's checks are impossible to cash. I don't expect menus and all signs to me in my language even though many of those places actually rely on English speaking people as tourists. The list goes on and on. All of these things could be changed if they wanted to be more &quot;tourist friendly&quot;. Yet it has never occurred to me to &quot;trash&quot; all those countries for being &quot;tourist unfriendly&quot;. I just accept that because I am a foreigner, I may expect certain extra efforts.

Yes this is a tourist board, but quite frankly if any foreign tourist wants to complain about actually having to walk 20 feet and pay for his gas inside because he comes from a different country and the local machines haven't been specially programmed for him, I hope he stays home -- we don't need any more whiners here; we have enough of our own, thank you!

&quot;As for “crime ridden” – don’t think I said that either.&quot;

Yes, you did, robjame:
&quot;Being from Canada I forget about the high rates of crime in the U.S.&quot;

Rates of crime are probably higher here, or in any other country that has the density of population we have in our cities. More people, more crime. Duh.

Your thinly-veiled comments don't fool anyone.
:)&gt;-

yeah its like that everywhere in CA too. You could alway go inside and have the person working ring it up there, couldnt you?

Ok Neo - I don't know if you are being deliberately thick on this or don't understand. I will try once more and then will leave it.

1. &quot;Could you then explain why recently as I was entering my zip code..&quot;
When people swipe their card in a machine it is authenticated through a terminal with the cc company to make sure it is valid. The cc company knows your zip and uses this as an authentication.

Most times a cc is stolen, the thief knows the zip but that is not the primary reason for this zip authentication according to spokesperson at Hess. The legitimate customer can challenge the particular purchase. It will result in a chargeback to the retailer unless the retailer can provide proof. This proof is usually a signature (not required at the pumps). So the retailer has no proof. Now he does. He can say that he required you to add your zip so you must have used it. (You didn't report your cc stolen).

I understand that and it makes sense to me.

2. &quot;You forget?&quot; You are right. It was attempted sarcasm. Lead balloon.

3. &quot; extra foreign exchange fees and various load and unload fees,&quot;
No - wrong.

It is like a gift card. I can buy it with my cc (let's say $100) and now it is worth $100 anywhere Visa is accepted - except the pumps.

4. &quot;I just accept that because I am a foreigner, I may expect certain extra efforts.&quot; but it hasn't stopped you from commenting on them and I protect your right to do so and alert others of your experiences and preferences. Personally I like Tim Horton's coffee.

5. &quot;having to walk 20 feet and pay for his gas&quot; I am sure you know it isn't as simple as that.
The requirement is for me to line-up (a bit of an annoyance), surrender my credit card (which Visa tells me not to do), return after pumping my gas to line-up (more of an annoyance) and reclaim my card.
Now I, like you, have gotten used to the easier system, especially at busy times and busy stations. Try it this way for a month and report back.

6. &quot;we don't need any more whiners here; we have enough of our own, thank you!&quot;

I don't need to comment on that remark.

robjame, I get all that about why they ask the zip, but I was reacting to the posts that indicate it makes no difference what zip you enter and the statement that the machine doesn't &quot;know&quot; your zip -- no of course it doesn't, but the terminal it's attached to DOES.

lead balloon? No we all got your sarcasm, that's why we're pointing out that it is pointless to &quot;act&quot; like you weren't running down the US for the crime issue. Your &quot;I forget&quot; line made it very clear. Understand?

I know nothing about Visa gift cards in Canada, but you can go to the Visa site and check out what they are like in the US, and as has been reported here many times, they add something like a 7% conversion charge for ALL foreign purchases with them. Sorry, if the Canadian one doesn't do that, but it sure suprises me.

Sorry, I offended your taste in coffee, but the fact that Tim Horton's happens to be in Canada had nothing to do with my comments. I hate 7-11 coffee and MacDonald's coffee in the US almost as much.

And I do apologize. I didn't realize it was SUCH an ordeal to go inside and pay cash. Some of us aren't as bothered by such things as others. If I had to stand in a line of customers to surrender my card and again stand in line to reclaim it, I'd be looking for a less busy gas station -- are all the people there Canadians who can't use the machines? Why the lines?

And my list of comments about things in other countries. Who on earth says I'm complaining about them? I wouldn't even comment on them except to point out how silly your complaints are. My point was as a foreign traveler I EXPECT things to be different for me. Sadly some travelers take it as a personal affront.

OK, I looked up this Visa Vanilla Card. It is not like all other Visa gift cards I've seen. What on earth is the point of it? No there is no foreign fee since it can't be used in a foreign country -- only the US. I read through all the rules including the idea that it can never be used at a gas pump, and for the life of me I can't understand a single reason for buying one -- other than to give to someone as a gift. But I'd rather someone give me the $100 than one of those silly cards. Why would you buy one with a Visa card for your own use -- why not just use the VISA card itself when you need it -- unless you have some big burning desire to pay the &quot;prepaid&quot; amount in advance instead of when you need it?

A couple of interesting points on the Visa Vanilla Card:

18. How do I dispute a Vanilla card transaction?
If there is any dispute in regard to purchases you make using the Card, you agree to settle such disputes with the merchant from whom the purchase was made. (As opposed to using your credit card where they will dispute it for you?)

14. When can I start using my Vanilla card?
You can start using your Vanilla card at the time of purchase. The Vanilla card is activated at the store. NOTE: some retailers may hold funds for up to 18 hours after time of purchase. (HUH? Hold what funds?)

11. If I lose or my card gets stolen how do I get a refund or a replacement card?
If you believe that your Card has been lost or stolen you need to notify us IMMEDIATELY. You can do this by going to www.vanillavisa.com and click on the contact us section.. You will be asked to provide us with the Card number and other identifying details. We cannot provide a refund if you do not have your Card number. If our records show that a Balance still remains on the Card, we will cancel the Card and may refund such available Balance amounts to you in the form of another gift card. There is a $5.95 fee for replacing a lost card. (As opposed to free replacement of a lost credit card)


6. Why is the merchant charging me for more than what I signed on my receipt?
Some purchases require a preauthorization. This is where the merchant sends in a transaction for a higher amount than the purchase. For example a $40 purchase at a restaurant is typically sent by the restaurant as $48 as they want to allow for a tip. We are required to approve and hold funds based on the $48 until the merchant finalizes the transaction which can take up to 10 days. (My, isn't THAT convenient?)

And one more:
&quot;If you want to make a purchase for an amount greater than the remaining Balance, you must notify the merchant before completing the transaction.&quot;

I repeat, what is the point of this card -- particularly buying one for your own use?

Robjame give me a break. I am Canadian. Our home is in Victoria. We have spent the last 19 years going to the sunny south of the US. We spend 6 months away and own our US home so I can make a comparison here. We have NEVER been affected by crime during our time in the US. My daughter and husband have lived in San Francisco and now Corpus Christi Texas and in the fourteen years they have never had a problem either.

In Victoria (we live in a nice neighbourhood) this is what has happened to us

We were broken into twice (during the summer when we were there).

My husbands car was broken into
.
There was a high speed police chase by our front door with shots being fired.

Neighbours down the street had their house set fire by an arsonist.

Just last week two people were attacked in broad daylight sending them to hospital on a busy downtown street.

Crime goes on everywhere and in my opinion if you are talking per capita Victoria is certainly up there so forget the sweeping statements about US crime.